8 ms·

I saw a good talk by someone who worked on the TV series. He mentioned that the writers were big fans of American cop dramas. They wanted to make a cop drama

I saw a good talk by someone who worked on the TV series. He mentioned that the writers were big fans of American cop dramas. They wanted to make a cop drama where the cops happen to be cyborgs. Not a sci-fi that happened to feature cops. Anyway, much agreed. I think GitS:SAC is a much better predictive commentary than Black Mirror (of which I am also a fan). IHMO, it predicted Anonymous much better than I think most techies understand Anonymous today.

igrekel 11y ago
Interesting, I used to think of the comparison between Anonymous and the "knights" in Serial Experiment Lain but now that you mention it, I now remember parts of it but feel I need to rewatch standalone complex.
- corysama 11y ago
  Lain's "Knights" is closer to what Anonymous is portrayed to be. What SAC covers is closer to what Anonymous is.
  - nfbush 11y ago
    Tenuous, Anonymous is just a mask to get yourself media attention where Knights had organisation and skill. The only similarity I see is that people who associate with both groups use technology in attempt for social change.
    - Jd 11y ago
      Anyone know if the "Knights" use lambda calculus? If so I don't think they are that similar to Anon. Knights seem more like a hacker elite where as Anon is more like a flash mob.
      - pdkl95 11y ago
        Lain explicitly references the Knights of the Lambda Calculus. https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus
    - clevernickname 11y ago
      I think what corysama is getting at is that the "mantle of edgy script kiddies" Anonymous is very different from the "human flesh search engine" Anonymous.
    - neltnerb 11y ago
      I'd never thought about that connection, but I think the specific comparison is to the first series' "Laughing Man". http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man "'The Laughing Man' became something of a pop culture obsession for a time, much to the chagrin of the actual Laughing Man—the irony being that since everybody used his icon and name for their own purposes, the original meaning of his actions, an artful forced confession of the truth through fear in the public eye, became 'phony' itself. The effort to stand for and demand the truth was also lost forever." That's so similar to how I at least understand Anonymous to exist that it's sends some chills up my spine. The things done in the name of Anonymous are all practically verbatim "Stand Alone Complex" type scenarios where there's not really a leader driving anything, but the interplay of "The Media", individual goals and interests, and a pseudonym to take credit all work towards the creation of a self-sustaining identity utterly independent to the original inspiration.
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        I can't shake the feeling that the media attention to Anonymous is what has given us this upsurge of "trolling" in recent years. Meaning that people employ variations of Anon tactics, as reported by the media, against people and groups for the flimsiest of reasons.
        phaus 11y ago
        That makes sense. Anonymous started as trolls. In the beginning, it was for the lulz. There was actually a good amount of infighting when they started becoming interested in social activism. This infighting persisted up until at least 2013.
        fl0wenol 11y ago
        It used to be hard to discredit someone or their ideas; you had to have resources to make an idea seem grass roots or fund agent provacteurs. Now we have trolling, sock puppetry, link echo chambers, and other mechanisms that attack our tendencies of contributing in social networks that make it easy for even a single individual with nothing but disdain and time to derail or discredit if sufficiently motivated. It isn't Anonymous, but the penetration of internet and social network into everyday life that makes these tactics more effective than ever, and so anyone with a spare five minutes and a chip on their shoulder can froth the waters; they don't have to be living in their mothers' basement and have a file called "my_hidden_agenda.txt" on their Desktop.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - angersock 11y ago
    SAC had probably my favorite portrayl of a chatroom on the net.
  - crucialfelix 11y ago
    I would say that a Stand Alone Complex is emergent behavior. The participants do not need to be conscious that there are others or even willing to be a part of it. Anonymous is at most an echo of this style but its not organized like that.
- Blackthorn 11y ago
  I don't think that comparison really holds...the Knights were basically what religion taken to its logical conclusion would be in a world where belief actually did impact reality and veracity of information. I think that's a lot more subtle and deeper than Anonymous. Honestly that's a really interesting theme and I wish it was examined more in other stories but cyberpunk and even post-cyberpunk is basically dead.
melloclello 11y ago
I always thought SAC was a little like Law and Order: SVU but with cyborgs
cvwright 11y ago
That's great! I always thought of SAC as "cyberpunk Law and Order". It's fun to hear that that was actually the intention.
kbenson 11y ago
That makes a lot of sense, and it probably helped quite a bit in figuring out the series. The core of a cop's job and the crimes committed will remain essentially unchanged as time progresses, barring some upheaval in the social structure, but the method of the crime and the tools at their disposal will change. By leaving one thing the same and focusing on the rest, that grounds them in a way that makes it easy to immediately relate while also allowing them to explore interesting facets of a possible future.
0max 11y ago
>it predicted Anonymous much better than I think most techies understand Anonymous today. Simulacra is an ouroboros

igrekel 11y ago

Interesting, I used to think of the comparison between Anonymous and the "knights" in Serial Experiment Lain but now that you mention it, I now remember parts of it but feel I need to rewatch standalone complex.

corysama 11y ago
Lain's "Knights" is closer to what Anonymous is portrayed to be. What SAC covers is closer to what Anonymous is.
- nfbush 11y ago
  Tenuous, Anonymous is just a mask to get yourself media attention where Knights had organisation and skill. The only similarity I see is that people who associate with both groups use technology in attempt for social change.
  - Jd 11y ago
    Anyone know if the "Knights" use lambda calculus? If so I don't think they are that similar to Anon. Knights seem more like a hacker elite where as Anon is more like a flash mob.
    - pdkl95 11y ago
      Lain explicitly references the Knights of the Lambda Calculus. https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus https://lain.wiki/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Calculus
  - clevernickname 11y ago
    I think what corysama is getting at is that the "mantle of edgy script kiddies" Anonymous is very different from the "human flesh search engine" Anonymous.
  - neltnerb 11y ago
    I'd never thought about that connection, but I think the specific comparison is to the first series' "Laughing Man". http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man "'The Laughing Man' became something of a pop culture obsession for a time, much to the chagrin of the actual Laughing Man—the irony being that since everybody used his icon and name for their own purposes, the original meaning of his actions, an artful forced confession of the truth through fear in the public eye, became 'phony' itself. The effort to stand for and demand the truth was also lost forever." That's so similar to how I at least understand Anonymous to exist that it's sends some chills up my spine. The things done in the name of Anonymous are all practically verbatim "Stand Alone Complex" type scenarios where there's not really a leader driving anything, but the interplay of "The Media", individual goals and interests, and a pseudonym to take credit all work towards the creation of a self-sustaining identity utterly independent to the original inspiration.
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      I can't shake the feeling that the media attention to Anonymous is what has given us this upsurge of "trolling" in recent years. Meaning that people employ variations of Anon tactics, as reported by the media, against people and groups for the flimsiest of reasons.
      - phaus 11y ago
        That makes sense. Anonymous started as trolls. In the beginning, it was for the lulz. There was actually a good amount of infighting when they started becoming interested in social activism. This infighting persisted up until at least 2013.
      - fl0wenol 11y ago
        It used to be hard to discredit someone or their ideas; you had to have resources to make an idea seem grass roots or fund agent provacteurs. Now we have trolling, sock puppetry, link echo chambers, and other mechanisms that attack our tendencies of contributing in social networks that make it easy for even a single individual with nothing but disdain and time to derail or discredit if sufficiently motivated. It isn't Anonymous, but the penetration of internet and social network into everyday life that makes these tactics more effective than ever, and so anyone with a spare five minutes and a chip on their shoulder can froth the waters; they don't have to be living in their mothers' basement and have a file called "my_hidden_agenda.txt" on their Desktop.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- angersock 11y ago
  SAC had probably my favorite portrayl of a chatroom on the net.
- crucialfelix 11y ago
  I would say that a Stand Alone Complex is emergent behavior. The participants do not need to be conscious that there are others or even willing to be a part of it. Anonymous is at most an echo of this style but its not organized like that.
Blackthorn 11y ago
I don't think that comparison really holds...the Knights were basically what religion taken to its logical conclusion would be in a world where belief actually did impact reality and veracity of information. I think that's a lot more subtle and deeper than Anonymous. Honestly that's a really interesting theme and I wish it was examined more in other stories but cyberpunk and even post-cyberpunk is basically dead.

melloclello 11y ago

I always thought SAC was a little like Law and Order: SVU but with cyborgs

cvwright 11y ago

That's great! I always thought of SAC as "cyberpunk Law and Order". It's fun to hear that that was actually the intention.

kbenson 11y ago

That makes a lot of sense, and it probably helped quite a bit in figuring out the series. The core of a cop's job and the crimes committed will remain essentially unchanged as time progresses, barring some upheaval in the social structure, but the method of the crime and the tools at their disposal will change. By leaving one thing the same and focusing on the rest, that grounds them in a way that makes it easy to immediately relate while also allowing them to explore interesting facets of a possible future.

0max 11y ago

>it predicted Anonymous much better than I think most techies understand Anonymous today. Simulacra is an ouroboros