4 ms·

What if another agency already has an NSL in place requiring exactly the same (backdoor, weak crypto params, weak by design secure enclave) and they simply are

What if another agency already has an NSL in place requiring exactly the same (backdoor, weak crypto params, weak by design secure enclave) and they simply are under a gag order to talk about?

Pharaoh2 11y ago
Yea NO. NSL's can't do that. At worst they will tell you to release and data that you have and your private keys. At best they will tell you to make sure you archive everything and don't permanently destroy records in case they are required in the future. They cannot force you to add backdoors or create a weak crypto , although they can indirectly suggest you to do that and its then on the company if they do so.
aioprisan 11y ago
NSLs can only ask for information, not force a company to build a product. That kind of request would have to come through legislation and apply to all US companies in a similar situation.
- teacup50 11y ago
  That's not really true; as evidence, I give you Room 641A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A "Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency" As long as you have a backdoor, and Apple does, shady government agencies can and do come knocking. We've got plenty of shady government agencies, and can never guarantee that we won't have more in the future.
  - X-Istence 11y ago
    That was most likely a backdoor deal between AT&T and the NSA. There was no legislation enacted. AT&T was not REQUIRED to install that room.
    - teacup50 11y ago
      We still don't know what the deal was. Arguing the nature of what we know about NSLs is a bit pointless when things like 641A are happening. Our interpretation of already unconstitutional NSLs guarantees nothing.
joezydeco 11y ago
@jzdziarski: "NSA isn't about to divulge their capabilities by burning exploits on a case that, thanks to FBIs ego, is high profile."

What if another agency already has an NSL in place requiring exactly the same (backdoor, weak crypto params, weak by design secure enclave) and they simply are under a gag order to talk about?

Pharaoh2 11y ago

Yea NO. NSL's can't do that. At worst they will tell you to release and data that you have and your private keys. At best they will tell you to make sure you archive everything and don't permanently destroy records in case they are required in the future. They cannot force you to add backdoors or create a weak crypto , although they can indirectly suggest you to do that and its then on the company if they do so.

aioprisan 11y ago

NSLs can only ask for information, not force a company to build a product. That kind of request would have to come through legislation and apply to all US companies in a similar situation.

teacup50 11y ago
That's not really true; as evidence, I give you Room 641A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A "Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency" As long as you have a backdoor, and Apple does, shady government agencies can and do come knocking. We've got plenty of shady government agencies, and can never guarantee that we won't have more in the future.
- X-Istence 11y ago
  That was most likely a backdoor deal between AT&T and the NSA. There was no legislation enacted. AT&T was not REQUIRED to install that room.
  - teacup50 11y ago
    We still don't know what the deal was. Arguing the nature of what we know about NSLs is a bit pointless when things like 641A are happening. Our interpretation of already unconstitutional NSLs guarantees nothing.

joezydeco 11y ago

@jzdziarski: "NSA isn't about to divulge their capabilities by burning exploits on a case that, thanks to FBIs ego, is high profile."