9 ms·
Seems like the only way people want to make money these days is through invasive advertising without the end-user's explicit consent. Granted the expectation of
by gargravarr 11y ago
Seems like the only way people want to make money these days is through invasive advertising without the end-user's explicit consent. Granted the expectation of free software is driving most of this, but it starts a vicious cycle because those who get annoyed with them develop countermeasures, which the creator responds to with more aggressive ads, ad infinitum.
It does start explaining some of the highly controversial telemetry MS was collecting in Win10 - turning everyone's PCs into billboards.
- cm2187 11y agoExcept windows isn't free. Even users who upgraded for free initially paid for a windows license (at least outside of China).
- gargravarr 11y agoPaying for the privilege of seeing adverts. So fundamentally MS. I'm so glad Win7 will be supported until 2020.
- ArbitraryHobo 11y agoToo bad about Intel dropping support for Skylake and newer CPUs on Windows 7.
- cm2187 11y agoyou mean Microsoft dropping support for Skylake
- jfuhrman 11y agoCan't drop something that doesn't exist.
- wongarsu 11y agoYou can drop something that doesn't exist but was announced. Thechnically Skylake support for Win7 wasn't announced, but the effect is the same since there was an implicit expectation that the feature would come.
- cm2187 11y agoBut I presume dropping support just means not being able to use the latest features. Even a very old system image of windows 7 will run on the very latest skylake. It doesn't need the very latest updates. I doubt they will create a kill switch in a windows update that refuses to boot if the system detects a too modern CPU.
- Laforet 11y agoThey can refuse to provide a signed driver for the platform, but like you said it is unclear how far they will go. Still better than Chrome endig support for Windows Vista this upcoming April...
- jfuhrman 11y ago>Thechnically Skylake support for Win7 wasn't announced, but the effect is the same since there was an implicit expectation that the feature would come. From where did this implicit expectation come from? Windows 7 mainstream support ended in Jan 2015 and that was known since forever. Extended support implies: >Microsoft no longer supplies non-security hotfixes unless you have an extended support agreement >All warranty claims end >Microsoft no long accepts requests for new features and design changes
- freddref 11y agoIt's more prevalent than you would expect. People pay for cable and magazines. People even pay to become walking ads when they buy brand name clothing. edit: comma
- cm2187 11y agoWhen I was still reading paper magazine, the first thing I did when I received a new issue of The Economist was to shake it over a garbage bin to remove all the inserts and tear up the card board insert in the middle...
- bduerst 11y agoHahah, I did the same. It was either the Economist or FT that did a cost/benefit analysis of removing those inserts for their already-subscribed customers copies, and found that it would cost more in lost new subscriptions to remove them.
- frandroid 11y ago> it would cost more in lost new subscriptions to remove them. How does that make sense?
- gjm11 11y agoSome of those inserts were invitations to subscribe to the Economist.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y agoI guess because people are reminded weekly to resubscribe or buy subscriptions as gifts. I dunno if it applies to me since I would habitually forget to resubscribe until they sent me the YOUR LAST ISSUE wrapping like an invasive Santa Claus.
- bduerst 11y agoOpportunity cost of lost subscriptions. A certain percentage of those inserts will convert to new subscriptions, even if the person receiving the insert was already a subscriber.
- civilian 11y agoMy brother cut me a login to his Comcast Xfinity. I tried watching "The Magicians" on syfy.com--- and there's 100 seconds of ads, six times over a 45 minute show! It makes the cliffhangers and pauses even more obnoxious. I'm going to go back to torrenting.
- blisterpeanuts 11y agoNo TV/cable, but on a trip recently I tried to watch syfy on the hotel TV -- and it was more ads than show. I can't believe anyone puts up with it; I swear it was five minutes of ads and five minutes of movie. No thanks; I'll just wait until things come to Prime or Netflix.
- seanp2k2 11y agoYeah, if you stop watching TV for a few years, trying to watch again after is really jarring. The volume-boost of ads, while not as bad as it used to be, is still pretty obnoxious, and the sheer quantity of ads makes shows much less enjoyable. I really believe that our parents are the last generation to really put up with all the ads, and our generation will just torrent / wait for Netflix / Prime or something else with minimal ads. The days of paying $100/month for 60 channels with linear programming spending a third of their time on ads are numbered.
- Silhouette 11y agoUnfortunately the industry's response to people avoiding explicit ads seems to be including ever more product placement. At least I can skip the ads with my PVR. Better that than having immersion in a show I enjoy totally broken by some blatant product logo or, worse, a really out-of-place line delivered dutifully but still awkwardly by an actor whose character would never say that. Possibly the only more annoying thing in TV is when some totally out of place, usually bright and animated logo pops up a couple of minutes before the end of the show I'm actually watching, usually with a boxy ad for some other show on the same channel next to it. Way to completely ruin the ending of the current show.
- a3n 11y agoWhen cable TV first came out, way back in the previous century, one of the benefits was supposedly going to be no commercials. Because you're paying to receive it. Now I'd guess more commercials are delivered via cable (and all those channels) than broadcast.
- ank_the_elder 11y agoThis is precisely why my household got cable, and precisely the reason why years later we stopped having cable.
- 27182818284 11y agoIt seems weird in the computer world... but I see a ton of paid cars driving around with advertisements stuck on the back too
- arm 11y agoIt seems weird in the computer world because unlike with your car example, the ads actually track you.
- seanp2k2 11y agoCars track you too: http://www.kliemanlyons.com/2014/09/vehicle-telematics-a-useful-litigation-tool-for-attorneys-a-boon-to-insurers-and-the-privacy-concerns-big-data-raises-for-us-all/ http://www.kliemanlyons.com/2014/09/vehicle-telematics-a-use...
- khedoros 11y agoThe logos and model numbers on cars seem to be about as weird as having Microsoft's name and logos around the OS and the logo of the hardware's manufacturer on the outside of the machine. Unless you're talking about dealer-provided license plate holders. Those are much easier to remove than most of the logos in software would be.
- namlem 11y agoUnless you installed the tech preview. I didn't pay a dime for Windows 10.
- compactmani 11y agoIf only there really was universal expectation of free software. Then we'd really be getting somewhere.
- jfoster 11y agoAre you talking about free as in freedom? I think gargravarr meant free as in cost.
- gargravarr 11y agoI did. But as discussed elsewhere on this page, libre software has its own set of drawbacks.
- bduerst 11y agoSoftware will never truly be "free" because someone pays for it to exist. It has upfront fixed costs and variable costs to maintain, which need to be covered by the developers, users, advertisers, or some combination of the three.
- wongarsu 11y agoBy that definition nothing can be "free" (as in beer), there's always someone paying for it (even if it's just opportunity cost). For any useful definition of the word free there can also be free software.
- bduerst 11y agoYep, also called TANSTaaFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Which is the point in context to someone saying "If only there really was universal expectation of free software...". With IP, the costs are hidden and it's easy to fall into the trap of expecting it to be totally free.
- wongarsu 11y agoThe problem with TANSTaaFL is that it uses a completely different definition of the word free than normal English. Normally the word free only references the price paid by the consumer, not the cost of production. If I give you a lunch without asking for anything in return, and without inconveniencing you, that's a free lunch for you. Of course somebody paid for it, but that doesn't stop me from giving it to you for free. >Which is the point in context to someone saying "If only there really was universal expectation of free software...". "I get my software for free but be offered the option to donate" is the model that's giving us Dwarf Fortress. It's free (as in beer) software in any useful sense of the word free.
- signal11 11y agoHaving read the article, this is about the "Windows Spotlight" feature -- which shows you a different wallpaper just before you log in. For me it's usually the default "cave and beach" wallpaper[1] although it's shown interesting photos from time to time, so I've left the feature on. It's on by default but pretty easy to disable. Not sure how I'd feel if it started showing me blatant ads. I'd probably just turn it off. And if they annoy me too much, well, hello Mac or Linux. I'm going to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt here, they're still trying to figure out what "Windows as a Service" looks like. Note that Google has ads on its homepage and even Apple delivers ads via push notifications, breaking its own rules in this regard[2]. [1] http://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Windows-10-lock-screen.jpg http://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Windows-10-lo... [2] https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6 https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6
- SudoNhim 11y agoThat cave and beach is by my house in New Zealand. Was super confusing when I saw it on someone elses computer as well and realized the photo wasn't one of mine
- bargl 11y agoI saw this too. If it didn't have the tiny text there that said "Discover the adventure inside." Then I'd hardly consider it an ad. It is then almost "free" wallpaper. Which I frequently have to go out and find for games I actually like and play. It's such a fine line between delivering something people want without them having to ask for it (nifty feature), and shoving things down peoples throat (ads). I really hope they address this properly.
- api 11y agoPeople want free. Things aren't free. But people want free, so let's give them "free" and monetize them indirectly with surveillance, invasive advertising, etc. The entire Internet has gone down this road since it's very hard to compete with someone who is giving something away for "free" (note quotes). Free has given us George Orwell's bidirectional it-watches-you TV set.
- nitrogen 11y agoFree was fine back when people paid their ISP or university to host their pages for them. The stuff put up by hobbyists was a lot more interesting in general anyway. Free didn't ruin the web, advertising did.
- r00fus 11y agoI want a fully supported OS that will see upgrades. I'm willing to pay. I guess that means OSX or Linux for the forseeable future. I used to think PCs that were sold had some vendor bloatware, but now the OS itself is bloatware. Were Stallman & Torvalds simply precient for their viewpoints 20+ years ago?
- mwcampbell 11y agoI wouldn't put Torvalds in the same category as Stallman here. IIUC, Torvalds initially made Linux free simply because he was doing it for fun. Now he couldn't change the license if he wanted to, and he's getting paid to work on it anyway. In any case, it seems that he's always been much less idealistic about software freedom than Stallman.
- mynameisvlad 11y agoWhat's the difference between OSX and Windows, in your mind? It's even more "free" than Windows is, since you can't buy it separately and all OS updates for the last few versions have been free.
- r00fus 11y agoTelemetry: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-w... Can't disable unless it's Win10 Enterprise or Education editions (does any PC sold come with Win10 enterprise or education editions)?
- forgetsusername 11y ago>Seems like the only way people want to make money these days is through invasive advertising Edit: I see "want" in there now.. Microsoft had over $12BB in net income last year, so I'd hardly say the "only" way to make money is through invasive ads like this. I can't really explain why they do this (other than "why not?"), but any revenue from this is sure to be a drop in the bucket.
- hollander 11y agoIt's not a drop in a bucket, but a drop in Windows sales. By giving away free upgrades to Windows 10, revenue for Windows has dropped. This is their answer.
- strommen 11y agoIsn't pretty much all advertising everywhere "without the end-user's explicit consent"? Websites, TV, radio, print media, billboards, sides of buses, posters in public bathrooms, Disney-branded kids' food at the grocery store, product placements embedded in actual Hollywood movies, desktop search in freakin' Ubuntu... I didn't sign up for seeing ads in any of these. They're just an implicit part of the social contract in 2016.
- kuschku 11y agoYou can block websites, only listen to radio channels without ads, switch to another TV channel when ads are coming up, use print media that have no ads but are subscription financed, etc. In many cities you’ll even find that bus advertisements are toned down, and in public bathrooms there are no posters either. I don’t remember when I saw or heard an ad the last time, but it was not this week.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- andrei_says_ 11y agoI don't remember signing such a contract. So I would say these are not consensual
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]