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I just checked the prohibited businesses https://stripe.com/de/prohibited-businesses https://stripe.com/de/prohibited-businesses I am fine with most of them be

I just checked the prohibited businesses https://stripe.com/de/prohibited-businesses https://stripe.com/de/prohibited-businesses I am fine with most of them being prohibited but at some points it's getting quite restricted: 1. Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold or converted to physical or digital products or services or otherwise exit the virtual world 4. Sexually-oriented or pornographic products or services 9. Engaging in deceptive marketing practices (here: who decides what is 'deceptive') 14. Age verification 15. Age restricted products or services (which are the most products/services) 50. Centralized travel reservation services or travel clubs

zrail 11y ago
Most of these are from Stripe's partner banks, and/or they've proven to be exceptionally prone to fraud and chargebacks.
- ianhawes 11y ago
  With regards to adult content, the perception is that chargebacks would be higher, but in reality this is mostly a relic of the late 90's when credit cards were first accepted online. Porn pioneered the infinite continuity ("recurring subscriptions until you die") that is incredibly widespread nowadays. At the moment, there are few non-merchant account ways to legally accept payments for adult content. They include such companies with terrible APIs/websites like: CCBill, Epoch and Verotel. They've successfully lobbied Visa & MasterCard to give them exemptions to provide "IPSP" services for "high-risk" adult content. In reality, working with them is probably the biggest risk. They often enforce arbitrary 30/60/90 day payment holds, require 10-20% reserves, and shut down accounts with no warning and withhold the entire amount processed indefinitely. I'd like to see Stripe continue to do innovative things in the payments space and work with their payment partners to allow adult-content, at the very least with per-account authorization. The status-quo has been set by Ron Cadwell & CCBill: We will keep your money indefinitely, provide an awful API, and require 'hosted payment forms' (with no custom CSS; terrible UX) because no one is allowed to compete with us. Patrick, the ball is in your court.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Are there any non-Stripe processors you'd recommend for adult content?
    - edoceo 11y ago
      ccbill handled it for our adult product
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Thanks! I was hoping it wasn't going to be ccbill, but that's just how it goes.
  - ad_hominem 11y ago
    > Patrick, the ball is in your court. Don't hold your breath. In private emails Patrick deferred to banks'/processors' judgment on these matters.
- waffle_ss 11y ago
  Which in turn is inherited from top-down pressure from the federal gov't[1], who are discriminating against certain categories of business purely ideologically.[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point [2]: http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Staff-Report-Operation-Choke-Point1.pdf http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Staff-...
  - zrail 11y ago
    Sure, but you have to play the hand you're dealt, especially when the dealer is the Federal government.
Fede_V 11y ago
If something can be described as 'maybe' deceptive, than it probably is deceptive. I don't mean this flippantly - playing cute with being deceptive is not really helpful to customers.
- cookiecaper 11y ago
  Sure, but any business with a marketing department is "maybe deceptive", so it really just becomes a question of "how deceptive is too deceptive".
  - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
    "Deception" means "purposefully misleading" - you can market products without being deceptive, though I'll accept it seems to happen very rarely.
smarx007 11y ago
From https://stripe.com/atlas/faq#Do-I-have-to-use-Stripe https://stripe.com/atlas/faq#Do-I-have-to-use-Stripe: Do I have to use Stripe? No, but we hope you will!
onewaystreet 11y ago
This is standard boilerplate for most payment services.
bambax 11y ago
This list is almost poetic, it folds onto itself several times, and includes Illegal products or services in position... 36!
ashmud 11y ago
> 15. Age restricted products or services (which are the most products/services) Wouldn't you need to be the age of majority to use Stripe at all?
- notahacker 11y ago
  Any cc processor has to worry about age restricted products or services using "Enter your credit card details here" to do their ID checks, especially since that is often combined with dark patterns that downplay the fact there's a charge associated with that. And age-restricted products tend to come with a whole host of other liability issues which they probably don't want connected to Stripe-registered US shell companies.
  - superuser2 11y ago
    It also doesn't make that much sense, considering that 15-17 year olds are regularly issued debit cards for checking accounts (though the parent is also usually a joint account owner). AFAIK nothing in the Visa/MC network has "Birthdate" field.
- junto 11y ago
  Would this include cinema tickets to R rated movies?
- adamt 11y ago
  Note in there are a lot of prepaid cards (that can be mastercard/visa cards) that focus on children. E.g. Osper (https://osper.com/ https://osper.com/) in the UK is a pre-paid Mastercard that targets 8-18 year olds.
redka 11y ago
Bear in mind this is not a complete list. They can also arbitrarily decide they don't like you even if your business isn't explicitly mentioned on the list and shut down your account even if you had zero chargebacks and zero refunds made.
kalms 11y ago
Seriously? Sexually-oriented services excludes a lot of legitimate, serious businesses. Seems fairly simple minded to me, but maybe that's the European in me speaking.
- tommoor 11y ago
  I'm sure it's a fraud / charge-back thing.. If you want to run 'riskier' businesses then you need your own merchant account. Although I agree i'm sure there are a few relatively straight-laced buisnesses that unwittingly end up in that bucket!
  - kalms 11y ago
    It makes sense, still.. Smells like censorship, when they put it in writing like that.
- superuser2 11y ago
  It's not puritanism so much as risk management. Spouse sees credit card charge for something sexual, questions it. Consumer is backed in do a corner. What do they do? Chargeback.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
> 9. Engaging in deceptive marketing practices (here: who decides what is 'deceptive') If you have to ask whether you're being deceptive, or the answer depends on who decides, you're doing something horribly wrong.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  Except I could argue that most major company's sales pages are deceptive. I mean just look at cellular or cable services in the US, find me ANY that isn't being deceptive in one way or another. Heck I'd even argue that Google Fiber's page has several statements and claims which are suspect.
  - JoshTriplett 11y ago
    > I mean just look at cellular or cable services in the US, find me ANY that isn't being deceptive in one way or another. And cellular and cable companies are some of the most hated in the US, not least of which for deceptive practices.
georgehotelling 11y ago
> Age restricted products or services Doesn't this cover any website that collects personal information, since the Children's Online Protection Act prohibits that for people under the age of 13?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  The Children's Online Protection Act (COPA) was struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Are you thinking of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA)?
  - georgehotelling 11y ago
    Thank you, yes, it's COPPA.
edpichler 11y ago
Each country has his particular prohibited items. Check USA prohibited items, it's a lot more better on this regard.
ben174 11y ago
> who decides what is 'deceptive' Stripe does. No one is entitled to use their service. It's their decision.
jessaustin 11y ago
Thanks for posting this. I am curious about the first item: 1. Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold or converted to physical or digital products or services or otherwise exit the virtual world Would this include a digital service for which the user might pre-pay? I.e., the service charges $1 every time one uses it, but for convenience's sake one can pre-pay $20. If one decides not to use the service anymore, one can request and receive an immediate refund. I can see why a payment provider might wish to prevent such an arrangement, but it isn't clear to me that this rule does prevent it.

zrail 11y ago

Most of these are from Stripe's partner banks, and/or they've proven to be exceptionally prone to fraud and chargebacks.

ianhawes 11y ago
With regards to adult content, the perception is that chargebacks would be higher, but in reality this is mostly a relic of the late 90's when credit cards were first accepted online. Porn pioneered the infinite continuity ("recurring subscriptions until you die") that is incredibly widespread nowadays. At the moment, there are few non-merchant account ways to legally accept payments for adult content. They include such companies with terrible APIs/websites like: CCBill, Epoch and Verotel. They've successfully lobbied Visa & MasterCard to give them exemptions to provide "IPSP" services for "high-risk" adult content. In reality, working with them is probably the biggest risk. They often enforce arbitrary 30/60/90 day payment holds, require 10-20% reserves, and shut down accounts with no warning and withhold the entire amount processed indefinitely. I'd like to see Stripe continue to do innovative things in the payments space and work with their payment partners to allow adult-content, at the very least with per-account authorization. The status-quo has been set by Ron Cadwell & CCBill: We will keep your money indefinitely, provide an awful API, and require 'hosted payment forms' (with no custom CSS; terrible UX) because no one is allowed to compete with us. Patrick, the ball is in your court.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Are there any non-Stripe processors you'd recommend for adult content?
  - edoceo 11y ago
    ccbill handled it for our adult product
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Thanks! I was hoping it wasn't going to be ccbill, but that's just how it goes.
- ad_hominem 11y ago
  > Patrick, the ball is in your court. Don't hold your breath. In private emails Patrick deferred to banks'/processors' judgment on these matters.
waffle_ss 11y ago
Which in turn is inherited from top-down pressure from the federal gov't[1], who are discriminating against certain categories of business purely ideologically.[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point [2]: http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Staff-Report-Operation-Choke-Point1.pdf http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Staff-...
- zrail 11y ago
  Sure, but you have to play the hand you're dealt, especially when the dealer is the Federal government.

Fede_V 11y ago

If something can be described as 'maybe' deceptive, than it probably is deceptive. I don't mean this flippantly - playing cute with being deceptive is not really helpful to customers.

cookiecaper 11y ago
Sure, but any business with a marketing department is "maybe deceptive", so it really just becomes a question of "how deceptive is too deceptive".
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago
  "Deception" means "purposefully misleading" - you can market products without being deceptive, though I'll accept it seems to happen very rarely.

smarx007 11y ago

From https://stripe.com/atlas/faq#Do-I-have-to-use-Stripe https://stripe.com/atlas/faq#Do-I-have-to-use-Stripe: Do I have to use Stripe? No, but we hope you will!

onewaystreet 11y ago

This is standard boilerplate for most payment services.

bambax 11y ago

This list is almost poetic, it folds onto itself several times, and includes Illegal products or services in position... 36!

ashmud 11y ago

> 15. Age restricted products or services (which are the most products/services) Wouldn't you need to be the age of majority to use Stripe at all?

notahacker 11y ago
Any cc processor has to worry about age restricted products or services using "Enter your credit card details here" to do their ID checks, especially since that is often combined with dark patterns that downplay the fact there's a charge associated with that. And age-restricted products tend to come with a whole host of other liability issues which they probably don't want connected to Stripe-registered US shell companies.
- superuser2 11y ago
  It also doesn't make that much sense, considering that 15-17 year olds are regularly issued debit cards for checking accounts (though the parent is also usually a joint account owner). AFAIK nothing in the Visa/MC network has "Birthdate" field.
junto 11y ago
Would this include cinema tickets to R rated movies?
adamt 11y ago
Note in there are a lot of prepaid cards (that can be mastercard/visa cards) that focus on children. E.g. Osper (https://osper.com/ https://osper.com/) in the UK is a pre-paid Mastercard that targets 8-18 year olds.

redka 11y ago

Bear in mind this is not a complete list. They can also arbitrarily decide they don't like you even if your business isn't explicitly mentioned on the list and shut down your account even if you had zero chargebacks and zero refunds made.

kalms 11y ago

Seriously? Sexually-oriented services excludes a lot of legitimate, serious businesses. Seems fairly simple minded to me, but maybe that's the European in me speaking.

tommoor 11y ago
I'm sure it's a fraud / charge-back thing.. If you want to run 'riskier' businesses then you need your own merchant account. Although I agree i'm sure there are a few relatively straight-laced buisnesses that unwittingly end up in that bucket!
- kalms 11y ago
  It makes sense, still.. Smells like censorship, when they put it in writing like that.
superuser2 11y ago
It's not puritanism so much as risk management. Spouse sees credit card charge for something sexual, questions it. Consumer is backed in do a corner. What do they do? Chargeback.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

> 9. Engaging in deceptive marketing practices (here: who decides what is 'deceptive') If you have to ask whether you're being deceptive, or the answer depends on who decides, you're doing something horribly wrong.

Someone1234 11y ago
Except I could argue that most major company's sales pages are deceptive. I mean just look at cellular or cable services in the US, find me ANY that isn't being deceptive in one way or another. Heck I'd even argue that Google Fiber's page has several statements and claims which are suspect.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  > I mean just look at cellular or cable services in the US, find me ANY that isn't being deceptive in one way or another. And cellular and cable companies are some of the most hated in the US, not least of which for deceptive practices.

georgehotelling 11y ago

> Age restricted products or services Doesn't this cover any website that collects personal information, since the Children's Online Protection Act prohibits that for people under the age of 13?

dragonwriter 11y ago
The Children's Online Protection Act (COPA) was struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Are you thinking of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA)?
- georgehotelling 11y ago
  Thank you, yes, it's COPPA.

edpichler 11y ago

Each country has his particular prohibited items. Check USA prohibited items, it's a lot more better on this regard.

ben174 11y ago

> who decides what is 'deceptive' Stripe does. No one is entitled to use their service. It's their decision.

jessaustin 11y ago

Thanks for posting this. I am curious about the first item: 1. Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold or converted to physical or digital products or services or otherwise exit the virtual world Would this include a digital service for which the user might pre-pay? I.e., the service charges $1 every time one uses it, but for convenience's sake one can pre-pay $20. If one decides not to use the service anymore, one can request and receive an immediate refund. I can see why a payment provider might wish to prevent such an arrangement, but it isn't clear to me that this rule does prevent it.