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> I then asked my wife for permission to spend five hundred and sixty dollars for a flight that I already had a free ticket for. Why would this make sense? Sur

> I then asked my wife for permission to spend five hundred and sixty dollars for a flight that I already had a free ticket for. Why would this make sense? Surely there wouldn't be a benefit worth more than $560?

corbet 11y ago
A single business-class upgrade on a long-haul flight way exceeds that.
- curun1r 11y ago
  It costs that, but I've yet to be convinced that it's worth that. A cattle-class ticket and a Valium gets me to my destination in just as much comfort as that business class ticket would.
  - tamana 11y ago
    Valium will get you through most of life with as much comfort as any other way, but still...
    - mirimir 11y ago
      Until you run out of Valium ;)
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Serious (and weird) question: does valium help with flying that much? What is it like flying on valium?
    - niels_olson 11y ago
      Mainly, if you don't take valium much, on the rare occasions you use it, you pass out within minutes. And it feels like you go from stone sober to completely lit in those few minutes, which is quite pleasant. For one to a few hours you will sleep like the dead. With luck you'll sleep through the flight, or through the night, or whatever. The next time, it won't work so well. The next time, it won't work so well. The next time, it won't work so well. And down the path you go. Up the dose, etc, etc. Don't use valium unless you have a real and only very occasional use for it. And try to keep that in mind: it's a use case. Not a need. You never need valium. You need food, and shelter from weather. But you don't need valium.
    - girvo 11y ago
      Depends, different people respond differently to benzodiazepines. For myself, a 5mg valium relaxes me but does not induce sleep. Similar to having a glass or two of wine, really. For others, they'll basically be knocked out. I'm not convinced it's necessary for flying myself, but if you have any sort of flight anxiety it can be a game-changer.
    - peteretep 11y ago
      I fly long-haul more than most people, albeit mostly in business. I started taking valium for flying 7 years ago for a fear of flying when I was flying mostly economy. I started with 2mg, which was completely ineffective for anything, and then went to 15mg. At the higher I didn't notice any effect, until the plane started bouncing, and then I realized I didn't care, which was perfect. I didn't notice any drowsiness at that level, which may have been due to adrenaline. Over the course of 6 years, my regular dosage approached 50mg as I kept upping it whenever I started to get nervous flying. If taking it while I got on a plane, I didn't feel drowsy. It became not always effective. About a year ago I made a conscious effort to wean myself off it over the course of 12 weeks, by flying a return business long-haul flight every week, and taking a little less each time, practicing the principles in Dr Claire Weekes "Freedom from Nervous Suffering" (essentially breathing exercises, although it's a little more nuanced), which is in fact a book for agoraphobics which someone had suggested to me. I got down to zero, but found under 10mg then turbulence still had fairly heavy emotional and physical effects on me. Now I take 0-10mg when I fly. I don't notice any effects, other than I am less sensitive to turbluence. However, I exclusively fly business class rather than economy, which I suspect helps a massive amount. During this time I also tried Propanalol at some high doses. I found it ineffective for fear of flying, but very very effective for giving presentations. However it started to make me short of breath, so I ditched it. In terms of intoxicating yourself for flying, I have found Ambien to be highly effective. However, it seems many many people have bad side-effects from it - sleep-walking, etc - so unless you're totally certain you can handle it well, I don't know that I would recommend it. These days I'll settle for 10mg of valium and some alcohol.
  - Nelson69 11y ago
    I was on vacation when a trip to Beijing was planned for me. The secretary, for reasons I don't expect I'll ever know or understand, insisted on flying Eastern China Airlines. Complete with an extra stop in Shanghai... It might be different now (this was like 6 years ago) but it was very much "the people's airline" then. It wasn't just very tight seating with limited recline capacity, but there were some strong odors as well. Not sure a valium would have got it done. It's the only time I attempted to buy an upgrade mid-flight. The American flights to and from L.A. on the American side were delightful. Maybe the idea was to help with the culture shock in the same way "getting jumped in" helps you adapt to gang-life.
  - robotresearcher 11y ago
    It's nice to have the choice of using those hours for work. 10 hours of uninterrupted time in a comfy seat with snacks at hand and laptop in a good position can be great. In a middle-middle-seat in the back not so much.
edutechnion 11y ago
If elite status results in a free upgrade on 20% of your flight segments, and you fly 50 segments per year: 10 upgrades to business class > $560
- superuser2 11y ago
  One upgrade to business class is already going to be a few hundred dollars. 10 exceeds it by a wide margin.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  20%? What airline you're with, for "elite" statuses it's generally less than 20% of the flights that do not get upgraded. Obviously depends on availability on the specific flights though.
  - ropiku 11y ago
    On a long haul international flight ? I doubt it. It's hard to find even mile redemption availability.
    - lnanek2 11y ago
      Depends on what you fly. I always used to fly first flight out of Newark preferentially compared to anything else out of Newark/LGA/JFK simply because I always got upgraded without fail. First flight out of Newark leaves before the mass transit gets running. So you can game the system to make sure there are seats to be upgraded to.
potatolicious 11y ago
It depends on how you value the perks - many of them (access to the GS lounges, for example) can't actually be purchased so there's no "real" value for them besides how much they are worth to you. If you're flying 50 times a year for business, lounge access may be worth substantially more to you than if you only flew a few times a year. Not to mention if you're going to be flying 50 times a year, that $560 means ~$10 per flight to make your experience substantially less awful.
- EvanKelly 11y ago
  I've occasionally gotten to a lounge access tier, but I've never used it. What's the benefit? I typically don't want to get to the airport earlier than I have to, and once you're at that level, security and boarding are a breeze. I don't fly internationally much, so most of my flights are direct. Is it mostly for layovers?
  - monknomo 11y ago
    It's nice for layovers and delays. It's also nice if you've just gotten off the plane and it's a long enough flight that you want to freshen up in a nicer, less crowded bathroom and then have a complimentary soda and cheese plate. That's how I've used it when I've had it.
  - eitally 11y ago
    It's terrific for layovers, and a lot of times you can find a shower if you want one. Having decently comfortable chairs, a more private and cleaner restroom, free snacks (sometimes real food, like in the Amex Centurion Lounges), good wifi and power outlets everywhere, and in some cases even business services (printer, phone rooms, etc).
  - crdb 11y ago
    The biggest benefit for me internationally (flying long haul once or twice a month from SIN) is absolutely being able to take a shower between two long-haul flights and, if the lounge is not airside, shave (e.g. The Haven by JetQuay at SIN). Peace and quiet is a second benefit. If you're waiting a couple of hours whilst sleep deprived (often the case for business travel or when booking budget flights that leave at 1:30am), those loud, constant announcements are very annoying. Bonus points if the airport has terrible seating and the lounge has comfortable sofas. If you need to work for a bit, it's a great place to do so, especially in airports that don't have free WiFi (increasingly rare these days). The food is rarely good in Asia (at least at those lounges I have access to). Reheated noodles and some meat if you're lucky and flying at the right time. It's convenient, at most, saving you the trouble. It really varies by city. HNL and NRT have terrible lounges for PP card holders - basically a room where you can sit for a while, sometimes with a free beer (but there is a great sushi-ya just opposite the NRT lounge). GVA has my favorite ones - nice view on mountains, usually empty (except if Aeroflot is flying soon...) and a decent breakfast with muesli and fresh bread and pastries. SIN lounges often have free massage chairs. Which are available for free in T3 as well, but it saves having to take the monorail there. On timing, if you are flying long haul you can face serious delays (like a huge queue at check-in and security) and need to pad it by a couple hours. Most of the time, you don't face these delays and have a spare hour to kill, and in most airports the lounge is a better place to do so. Sort of applies to short haul too; I once missed LHR-GVA check-in on BA by a single minute and they were very annoying about it despite the empty airport (had to book another flight).
untog 11y ago
Well that's kind of the core of the article, no? In dollar amount alone, yes, there are benefits worth more than $560. But are they worth the money? I have resigned myself to never taking a first class reward flight because I can get at least two economy trips with the same amount of miles. I just can't justify that to myself, despite the (more than 2x) dollar amounts attached.
- coldcode 11y ago
  You aren't 2 meters tall.
  - untog 11y ago
    I'm not far off. Whenever possible I pay the $50 or whatever for an exit row seat on top of my economy reward.
    - eitally 11y ago
      But god help you if you accidentally choose either a bulkhead seat or an exit seat that doesn't recline. SeatGuru is your friend. (am also nearly 2m tall.)
  - pc86 11y ago
    About 6'6" for the Americans here (myself included).
- apercu 11y ago
  I had to do early morning flights to a city about an hour away pretty frequently for all days meetings, flight back same day. With security this meant getting up at 4 to catch a 7:30 flight, to get to the meetings by 9:30, all day in a conference room, leave at 5 to get to the airport for a 7:30pm flight to get home by 9:30 or 10:00pm. Flying business class changed the whole dynamic. I was fed a real breakfast in the morning instead of getting the shakes from a relatively empty stomach and too much coffee. I got a hot towel to wipe my face with and feel human when I showed up at the meeting. On the way back a light dinner and a glass of wine with a little elbow room. The extra 30% for business class was well worth it. If I was staying overnight, perhaps not.

corbet 11y ago

A single business-class upgrade on a long-haul flight way exceeds that.

curun1r 11y ago
It costs that, but I've yet to be convinced that it's worth that. A cattle-class ticket and a Valium gets me to my destination in just as much comfort as that business class ticket would.
- tamana 11y ago
  Valium will get you through most of life with as much comfort as any other way, but still...
  - mirimir 11y ago
    Until you run out of Valium ;)
- tptacek 11y ago
  Serious (and weird) question: does valium help with flying that much? What is it like flying on valium?
  - niels_olson 11y ago
    Mainly, if you don't take valium much, on the rare occasions you use it, you pass out within minutes. And it feels like you go from stone sober to completely lit in those few minutes, which is quite pleasant. For one to a few hours you will sleep like the dead. With luck you'll sleep through the flight, or through the night, or whatever. The next time, it won't work so well. The next time, it won't work so well. The next time, it won't work so well. And down the path you go. Up the dose, etc, etc. Don't use valium unless you have a real and only very occasional use for it. And try to keep that in mind: it's a use case. Not a need. You never need valium. You need food, and shelter from weather. But you don't need valium.
  - girvo 11y ago
    Depends, different people respond differently to benzodiazepines. For myself, a 5mg valium relaxes me but does not induce sleep. Similar to having a glass or two of wine, really. For others, they'll basically be knocked out. I'm not convinced it's necessary for flying myself, but if you have any sort of flight anxiety it can be a game-changer.
  - peteretep 11y ago
    I fly long-haul more than most people, albeit mostly in business. I started taking valium for flying 7 years ago for a fear of flying when I was flying mostly economy. I started with 2mg, which was completely ineffective for anything, and then went to 15mg. At the higher I didn't notice any effect, until the plane started bouncing, and then I realized I didn't care, which was perfect. I didn't notice any drowsiness at that level, which may have been due to adrenaline. Over the course of 6 years, my regular dosage approached 50mg as I kept upping it whenever I started to get nervous flying. If taking it while I got on a plane, I didn't feel drowsy. It became not always effective. About a year ago I made a conscious effort to wean myself off it over the course of 12 weeks, by flying a return business long-haul flight every week, and taking a little less each time, practicing the principles in Dr Claire Weekes "Freedom from Nervous Suffering" (essentially breathing exercises, although it's a little more nuanced), which is in fact a book for agoraphobics which someone had suggested to me. I got down to zero, but found under 10mg then turbulence still had fairly heavy emotional and physical effects on me. Now I take 0-10mg when I fly. I don't notice any effects, other than I am less sensitive to turbluence. However, I exclusively fly business class rather than economy, which I suspect helps a massive amount. During this time I also tried Propanalol at some high doses. I found it ineffective for fear of flying, but very very effective for giving presentations. However it started to make me short of breath, so I ditched it. In terms of intoxicating yourself for flying, I have found Ambien to be highly effective. However, it seems many many people have bad side-effects from it - sleep-walking, etc - so unless you're totally certain you can handle it well, I don't know that I would recommend it. These days I'll settle for 10mg of valium and some alcohol.
- Nelson69 11y ago
  I was on vacation when a trip to Beijing was planned for me. The secretary, for reasons I don't expect I'll ever know or understand, insisted on flying Eastern China Airlines. Complete with an extra stop in Shanghai... It might be different now (this was like 6 years ago) but it was very much "the people's airline" then. It wasn't just very tight seating with limited recline capacity, but there were some strong odors as well. Not sure a valium would have got it done. It's the only time I attempted to buy an upgrade mid-flight. The American flights to and from L.A. on the American side were delightful. Maybe the idea was to help with the culture shock in the same way "getting jumped in" helps you adapt to gang-life.
- robotresearcher 11y ago
  It's nice to have the choice of using those hours for work. 10 hours of uninterrupted time in a comfy seat with snacks at hand and laptop in a good position can be great. In a middle-middle-seat in the back not so much.

edutechnion 11y ago

If elite status results in a free upgrade on 20% of your flight segments, and you fly 50 segments per year: 10 upgrades to business class > $560

superuser2 11y ago
One upgrade to business class is already going to be a few hundred dollars. 10 exceeds it by a wide margin.
ryanlol 11y ago
20%? What airline you're with, for "elite" statuses it's generally less than 20% of the flights that do not get upgraded. Obviously depends on availability on the specific flights though.
- ropiku 11y ago
  On a long haul international flight ? I doubt it. It's hard to find even mile redemption availability.
  - lnanek2 11y ago
    Depends on what you fly. I always used to fly first flight out of Newark preferentially compared to anything else out of Newark/LGA/JFK simply because I always got upgraded without fail. First flight out of Newark leaves before the mass transit gets running. So you can game the system to make sure there are seats to be upgraded to.

potatolicious 11y ago

It depends on how you value the perks - many of them (access to the GS lounges, for example) can't actually be purchased so there's no "real" value for them besides how much they are worth to you. If you're flying 50 times a year for business, lounge access may be worth substantially more to you than if you only flew a few times a year. Not to mention if you're going to be flying 50 times a year, that $560 means ~$10 per flight to make your experience substantially less awful.

EvanKelly 11y ago
I've occasionally gotten to a lounge access tier, but I've never used it. What's the benefit? I typically don't want to get to the airport earlier than I have to, and once you're at that level, security and boarding are a breeze. I don't fly internationally much, so most of my flights are direct. Is it mostly for layovers?
- monknomo 11y ago
  It's nice for layovers and delays. It's also nice if you've just gotten off the plane and it's a long enough flight that you want to freshen up in a nicer, less crowded bathroom and then have a complimentary soda and cheese plate. That's how I've used it when I've had it.
- eitally 11y ago
  It's terrific for layovers, and a lot of times you can find a shower if you want one. Having decently comfortable chairs, a more private and cleaner restroom, free snacks (sometimes real food, like in the Amex Centurion Lounges), good wifi and power outlets everywhere, and in some cases even business services (printer, phone rooms, etc).
- crdb 11y ago
  The biggest benefit for me internationally (flying long haul once or twice a month from SIN) is absolutely being able to take a shower between two long-haul flights and, if the lounge is not airside, shave (e.g. The Haven by JetQuay at SIN). Peace and quiet is a second benefit. If you're waiting a couple of hours whilst sleep deprived (often the case for business travel or when booking budget flights that leave at 1:30am), those loud, constant announcements are very annoying. Bonus points if the airport has terrible seating and the lounge has comfortable sofas. If you need to work for a bit, it's a great place to do so, especially in airports that don't have free WiFi (increasingly rare these days). The food is rarely good in Asia (at least at those lounges I have access to). Reheated noodles and some meat if you're lucky and flying at the right time. It's convenient, at most, saving you the trouble. It really varies by city. HNL and NRT have terrible lounges for PP card holders - basically a room where you can sit for a while, sometimes with a free beer (but there is a great sushi-ya just opposite the NRT lounge). GVA has my favorite ones - nice view on mountains, usually empty (except if Aeroflot is flying soon...) and a decent breakfast with muesli and fresh bread and pastries. SIN lounges often have free massage chairs. Which are available for free in T3 as well, but it saves having to take the monorail there. On timing, if you are flying long haul you can face serious delays (like a huge queue at check-in and security) and need to pad it by a couple hours. Most of the time, you don't face these delays and have a spare hour to kill, and in most airports the lounge is a better place to do so. Sort of applies to short haul too; I once missed LHR-GVA check-in on BA by a single minute and they were very annoying about it despite the empty airport (had to book another flight).

untog 11y ago

Well that's kind of the core of the article, no? In dollar amount alone, yes, there are benefits worth more than $560. But are they worth the money? I have resigned myself to never taking a first class reward flight because I can get at least two economy trips with the same amount of miles. I just can't justify that to myself, despite the (more than 2x) dollar amounts attached.

coldcode 11y ago
You aren't 2 meters tall.
- untog 11y ago
  I'm not far off. Whenever possible I pay the $50 or whatever for an exit row seat on top of my economy reward.
  - eitally 11y ago
    But god help you if you accidentally choose either a bulkhead seat or an exit seat that doesn't recline. SeatGuru is your friend. (am also nearly 2m tall.)
- pc86 11y ago
  About 6'6" for the Americans here (myself included).
apercu 11y ago
I had to do early morning flights to a city about an hour away pretty frequently for all days meetings, flight back same day. With security this meant getting up at 4 to catch a 7:30 flight, to get to the meetings by 9:30, all day in a conference room, leave at 5 to get to the airport for a 7:30pm flight to get home by 9:30 or 10:00pm. Flying business class changed the whole dynamic. I was fed a real breakfast in the morning instead of getting the shakes from a relatively empty stomach and too much coffee. I got a hot towel to wipe my face with and feel human when I showed up at the meeting. On the way back a light dinner and a glass of wine with a little elbow room. The extra 30% for business class was well worth it. If I was staying overnight, perhaps not.