3 ms·

>We already spend 16% of GDP, about double what almost all other countries spend on health care and have worse outcomes. The medical system is not the primary

by gozur88 11y ago

>We already spend 16% of GDP, about double what almost all other countries spend on health care and have worse outcomes. The medical system is not the primary influence on a population's health. It's probably about third behind public health systems (sewage, water, and food inspection) and the health habits of the population. You're never going to have a health system that can compensate for four hundred pound diabetics who didn't realize they were pregnant for six months.

thecosas 11y ago
I have been a Type 1 diabetic since I was eight years old. I am now 31 and am not and have never been obese. In Type 1 diabetes, the immune system attacks the beta cells in the pancreas which would normally produce insulin. It is a lifelong autoimmune disorder, not a lifestyle choice. It also happens to be the population of diabetics most likely to be impacted by the cost of insulin, as our bodies do not produce any. I understand that the last sentence was meant as a quip/jab at the clear obesity problem which the United States in particular is dealing with, along with the epidemic of type 2 diabetes that is resulting. It is real and needs to be fought on many fronts. Your argument, however, implies that ALL diabetics are overweight, irresponsible people, which is simply not the case for type 1's at all and for many (if not most) type 2's.
- gozur88 11y ago
  I have no idea what your comment has to do with mine. If you read it again you'll see I imply nothing beyond the fact that Americans, as a group, suffer from poor health choices.
- 1123581321 11y ago
  I'm type 1 and I don't mind jabs about weight. Diabetes isn't a completely random autoimmune disease; some of us have it because of our mothers' diets, bad periods of sickness during childhood and so on. Late adult type 1 diabetics can often point to overwork, bad diet and some type 1s likely have issues with fatty pancreas disease (those with very low, but existent, c peptide, for example.) I believe we would have fewer type 1 diabetics in a healthier country. I also think that, though type 1s aren't as obese as type 2s on average, we can always do better at reducing our need for insulin and keeping ourselves fit and mostly well-functioning. I don't believe we have much to gain from telling people not to lump us in with pure type 2s as if we are a protected class.
  - pimeys 11y ago
    Type 1 diabetic here. I remember having the flu before I got the diabetes, and later on there's been some research that if you have the genes and get the flu when you're a child, there's a big chance of losing your insulin production. Would love to have some sources for this though, because it's been a long time since I heard about this. I was lucky though, born in Finland with the best type 1 diabetes study and completely free insulins and medical care.
pjmorris 11y ago
Are you saying that the US population has health habits poor enough to account for the 1/3 more we spend on health care than anywhere else in the developed world?
- gozur88 11y ago
  No, I'm saying our health system is as good as, if not better, than anywhere else. The problem is there are a lot of Americans who have such a high opinion of the medical system they think they can adopt whatever habits they want to adopt without repercussion. Because the doctors can fix whatever problems result. This is a fantasy. I'm pretty sure there are some additional costs that result from lifestyle choices, but I don't know how much they impact the bottom line. And I don't think you can compare spending across countries like that. Americans have different expectations from the medical system - they don't accept money as a reason heroic measures shouldn't be taken, particularly at end-of-life. There are a lot of countries where it's reasonable to say to the family "Look, your father is very old. We could operate and maybe put his cancer into remission, but he's likely to die in a month or two anyway and we only have so much money." The US isn't one of them, and my suspicion is when we get a single payer system the costs won't actually come down much if at all.

by gozur88 11y ago

thecosas 11y ago

I have been a Type 1 diabetic since I was eight years old. I am now 31 and am not and have never been obese. In Type 1 diabetes, the immune system attacks the beta cells in the pancreas which would normally produce insulin. It is a lifelong autoimmune disorder, not a lifestyle choice. It also happens to be the population of diabetics most likely to be impacted by the cost of insulin, as our bodies do not produce any. I understand that the last sentence was meant as a quip/jab at the clear obesity problem which the United States in particular is dealing with, along with the epidemic of type 2 diabetes that is resulting. It is real and needs to be fought on many fronts. Your argument, however, implies that ALL diabetics are overweight, irresponsible people, which is simply not the case for type 1's at all and for many (if not most) type 2's.

gozur88 11y ago
I have no idea what your comment has to do with mine. If you read it again you'll see I imply nothing beyond the fact that Americans, as a group, suffer from poor health choices.
1123581321 11y ago
I'm type 1 and I don't mind jabs about weight. Diabetes isn't a completely random autoimmune disease; some of us have it because of our mothers' diets, bad periods of sickness during childhood and so on. Late adult type 1 diabetics can often point to overwork, bad diet and some type 1s likely have issues with fatty pancreas disease (those with very low, but existent, c peptide, for example.) I believe we would have fewer type 1 diabetics in a healthier country. I also think that, though type 1s aren't as obese as type 2s on average, we can always do better at reducing our need for insulin and keeping ourselves fit and mostly well-functioning. I don't believe we have much to gain from telling people not to lump us in with pure type 2s as if we are a protected class.
- pimeys 11y ago
  Type 1 diabetic here. I remember having the flu before I got the diabetes, and later on there's been some research that if you have the genes and get the flu when you're a child, there's a big chance of losing your insulin production. Would love to have some sources for this though, because it's been a long time since I heard about this. I was lucky though, born in Finland with the best type 1 diabetes study and completely free insulins and medical care.

pjmorris 11y ago

Are you saying that the US population has health habits poor enough to account for the 1/3 more we spend on health care than anywhere else in the developed world?

gozur88 11y ago
No, I'm saying our health system is as good as, if not better, than anywhere else. The problem is there are a lot of Americans who have such a high opinion of the medical system they think they can adopt whatever habits they want to adopt without repercussion. Because the doctors can fix whatever problems result. This is a fantasy. I'm pretty sure there are some additional costs that result from lifestyle choices, but I don't know how much they impact the bottom line. And I don't think you can compare spending across countries like that. Americans have different expectations from the medical system - they don't accept money as a reason heroic measures shouldn't be taken, particularly at end-of-life. There are a lot of countries where it's reasonable to say to the family "Look, your father is very old. We could operate and maybe put his cancer into remission, but he's likely to die in a month or two anyway and we only have so much money." The US isn't one of them, and my suspicion is when we get a single payer system the costs won't actually come down much if at all.