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I've always wondered about this. Not only were the actions legal in Germany at the time but the international laws and human rights didn't exist yet either. If

by pluma 11y ago

I've always wondered about this. Not only were the actions legal in Germany at the time but the international laws and human rights didn't exist yet either. If you also consider that recently many dictators and criminals never even went to the The Hague despite international involvement (Gaddafi, Hussein, Bin Laden, ...) it seems a lot like it's just a handy tool we pull out when it's convenient rather than the moral authority it was intended to be. I'm all for stopping the bad guys, but "justice" seems to be entirely arbitrary if you look close enough.

mschuster91 11y ago
> I'm all for stopping the bad guys, but "justice" seems to be entirely arbitrary if you look close enough. History and justice is written by the victors.
- kiba 11y ago
  No, it's not. It's written by historians and they're very interested in losers and ordinary people and what they eat and what they like, etc.
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    That's the wonderful XXI century. Things didn't use to be that way. And even now the winners are the ones deciding what documentation to keep or destroy, what the media and the public are allowed to know, and what historians get funding. Yet, the winners never had so little control. And after enough time, your comment gets correct.
    - cema 11y ago
      Things didn't use to be that way. But they did. The most successful series of books of all times (the Bible) was written by a people who were beaten, broadly persecuted, and generally not considered victors in any practical matter.
      - nitrogen 11y ago
        The preservation of those books and decisions regarding doctrine took place in part at the direction of emperors establishing new state religions, so again, what remains is what was preserved by the victors.
ant6n 11y ago
The way the Nazi regime came about did use loop holes in the constitution of the Weimar Republic, but it was still problematic. Kind of like how the Bush administration defined prisoners in the 'war on terrorism' as 'enemy combatants', which somehow meant none of the Geneva conventions apply.
- cema 11y ago
  I think technically it meant that the Geneva conventions were applicable to them, but as the enemy combatants, not civilians. (There is an important distinction with unlawful combatants there.)
  - ant6n 11y ago
    from wiki: """In the United States the phrase "enemy combatant" was used after the September 11 attacks by the George W. Bush administration to include an alleged member of al Qaeda or the Taliban being held in detention by the U.S. government as part of the war on terror. In this sense, "enemy combatant" actually refers to persons the United States regards as unlawful combatants, a category of persons who do not qualify for prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions.""" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant

by pluma 11y ago

mschuster91 11y ago

> I'm all for stopping the bad guys, but "justice" seems to be entirely arbitrary if you look close enough. History and justice is written by the victors.

kiba 11y ago
No, it's not. It's written by historians and they're very interested in losers and ordinary people and what they eat and what they like, etc.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  That's the wonderful XXI century. Things didn't use to be that way. And even now the winners are the ones deciding what documentation to keep or destroy, what the media and the public are allowed to know, and what historians get funding. Yet, the winners never had so little control. And after enough time, your comment gets correct.
  - cema 11y ago
    Things didn't use to be that way. But they did. The most successful series of books of all times (the Bible) was written by a people who were beaten, broadly persecuted, and generally not considered victors in any practical matter.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      The preservation of those books and decisions regarding doctrine took place in part at the direction of emperors establishing new state religions, so again, what remains is what was preserved by the victors.

ant6n 11y ago

The way the Nazi regime came about did use loop holes in the constitution of the Weimar Republic, but it was still problematic. Kind of like how the Bush administration defined prisoners in the 'war on terrorism' as 'enemy combatants', which somehow meant none of the Geneva conventions apply.

cema 11y ago
I think technically it meant that the Geneva conventions were applicable to them, but as the enemy combatants, not civilians. (There is an important distinction with unlawful combatants there.)
- ant6n 11y ago
  from wiki: """In the United States the phrase "enemy combatant" was used after the September 11 attacks by the George W. Bush administration to include an alleged member of al Qaeda or the Taliban being held in detention by the U.S. government as part of the war on terror. In this sense, "enemy combatant" actually refers to persons the United States regards as unlawful combatants, a category of persons who do not qualify for prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions.""" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant