6 ms·

Even without oil prices dropping, Saudi Arabia's days are numbered. No one knows exactly how much oil they have left, but they have been pumping seawater into t

by dexwiz 11y ago

Even without oil prices dropping, Saudi Arabia's days are numbered. No one knows exactly how much oil they have left, but they have been pumping seawater into the ground for years now. This doesn't signal that their oil is drying it up, but it is less plentiful than before. Any country that relies on natural resources for its wealth will suffer when those resources dry up and are not replaced with some form of productions. When was the last time you bought something made in Saudi Arabia? The USA made Saudi Arabia via Ibn Saud, and it will unmake it via Iran. The sanctions were lifted on Iran, because the USA saw the writing on the wall years ago about Saudi Arabia drying up. It needs to reposition itself as an ally of the next major middle eastern oil producer. Not only does Iran have oil, but it has some of the largest natural gas deposits in the world. [1] After years of conflict, and a proxy war in Yemen, Iran is likely to do anything to ruin Saudi Arabian. This means any power over production that Saudi Arabia used to wield via OPEC will be nullified once Iran is developed by Big Oil. Its an end of an era. The war in Yemen keeps aggression pointed outward, but as soon as the populace tires and the payoffs stop coming it will turn inward. Another government will be recast as tyrants and despots, and the world will watch it fall. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_fields https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_fields

madengr 11y ago
I bought a package of dates that were grown in SA, but have seen nothing else.
- steve19 11y ago
  Saudi has many potential exports. They have massive non-oil mineral resources they can exploit when they choose to do so. They have fertilizer, water and sun in unlimited quantities (cheap energy + salt water = fresh water). They could feed the world if they wanted to. For example the largest vertically integrated dairy corporation in the world is in Saudi Arabia. They have the ability to green the desert and they are doing this right now. They are also gearing up for future war (and not just in the headline making military acquisitions reporters get all excited about, I mean the boring nuts and bolts you need to sustain massive prolonged military campaigns) It's easy for the mainstream and financial media to make fun of the Kingdom. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. If anything, the oil price is going to be a wake up call that forces them to diversify faster than they were already doing so.
iofj 11y ago
> When was the last time you bought something made in Saudi Arabia? Given just how much ownership they have in American companies, I imagine it would have been quite recently. Probably your mortgage is partly Saudi as well. Of course this only works for the Saudi elite, not for normal Saudis. > Its an end of an era. The war in Yemen keeps aggression pointed outward, but as soon as the populace tires and the payoffs stop coming it will turn inward I would be terrified if I lived in a nation that has >30% foreigners that are kept from being citizens and kept out of the vast majority of decent jobs.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - Retric 11y ago
    For perspective 1% US GDP for 6 years is more than All foreign investment by Saudi Arabia.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- adventured 11y ago
  Saudi Arabia is almost entirely irrelevant financially compared to the scale of the US. It's a piker to put it nicely. The US owns around 43% of all global wealth. Saudi's foreign reserves (~$595 billion) represent the equivalent value of 2% of just the US residential housing market. Or a bit more than the market cap of one Apple or Google.
  - tim333 11y ago
    ok but "Saudi Aramco's value has been estimated at anywhere between US$1.25 trillion and US$10 trillion" or like 10 Apples. Plus they have other assets.
jbuzbee 11y ago
> When was the last time you bought something made in Saudi Arabia? My family and I vacationed on Saudi Arabia back in 2000. We looked and looked for locally made items as souvenirs of our trip. Everything was imported. There was zero local industry. I finally picked up a discarded, hand-made camel hobble out of a dung pile. My family gave me a hard time, but hey! It was locally crafted with hand-woven rope and a hand-carved handle! It's now a unique momento hanging on our "travel wall" as a conversation starter.
- brianwawok 11y ago
  > We looked and looked for locally made items as souvenirs of our trip. Everything was imported. Sadly that is not a Saudi Arabia thing. Last time I was in Jamaica, 95% of the shops were stuffed with Jamaican looking things.. generally all with a "made in china" tag. It is a weird world we live in where even the handcrafted tourist trinkets are imported.
GabrielF00 11y ago
I don't think the US "made" Saudi Arabia. My recollection is that the Saud family defeated their local rivals and established the Saudi state in the 20s and 30s, and that American political involvement with Saudi Arabia really only began towards the end of WW2.
- dexwiz 11y ago
  This is true. The Sauds did conquer many surrounding tribes in the first half of the 20ths century. But without international allies, Saudi Arabia would never have been able to independently develop their reserves and have the wealth they have today.
- saryant 11y ago
  American government involvement began after WWII (marked by Roosevelt's meeting with Ibn Saud), but American industrial involvement began earlier, essentially bankrolling the fledgling state in the 1930's when Major Frank Holmes, under direction from Ibn Saud, offered an oil concession to Standard Oil of California only after extracting a large upfront payment from Socal.
- jqm 11y ago
  It was the British who backed the Saud family initially. Towards the end of the Ottoman empire. They gave the Sauds advisers and military support.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    No the British backed the Hashemites (the plot of Laurence of Arabia;)) the territory was split between the 5 sons of Hussein ibn Ali of which only Jordan currently remains Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria and a few other regions that do not exist today were lost to secterial conflict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashemites https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashemites
    - jqm 11y ago
      ? It's an easily checked fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud Excerpt: "After World War I, he received further support from the British, including a glut of surplus munitions. He launched his campaign against the Al Rashidi in 1920; by 1922 they had been all but destroyed."
sharkweek 11y ago
I really liked the movie Syriana, and this quote always stuck out to me: "But what do you need a financial advisor for? Twenty years ago you had the highest Gross National Product in the world, now you're tied with Albania. Your second largest export is secondhand goods, closely followed by dates which you're losing five cents a pound on... You know what the business community thinks of you? They think that a hundred years ago you were living in tents out here in the desert chopping each other's heads off and that's where you'll be in another hundred years, so, yes, on behalf of my firm I accept your money." Super fascinating film that I highly recommend - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365737/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365737/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt
thetruthseeker1 11y ago
This reeks of condescension. I don't believe US made Saudi Arabia, but I do think Saudi Arabia benefited from US and US from Saudi. The partnership was a good one for both probably, but America through it ingeniousness and also through circumstances ended up being the country with highest GDP. Now Saudi has capital and resources, it is upto it on how it uses it, it is interesting article from NYtimes that talks about the challenges Saudis face, but I dont believe that "Saudi" or any country for that matter is destined for failure.
- dpc59 11y ago
  Saudi aramco was a company built by occidental capital, the saudi regime was propped up by occidental politicians, saudi arabia's borders were drawn by england.
  - thetruthseeker1 11y ago
    Not sure why I got down voted for this! I hope I am not down voted just because people disagree with my view point? I thought the guidelines clearly said that you only down vote when I say something that does not add value to the discussion. If Saudi's borders were drawn by England, how did US make Saudi by that definition. I still stand my ground that there is some kind of a we(US and England) are better than you (Saudi Arabia ) tone here. Occidental Capital is a private enterprise it looks like, a private enterprise is not a nation. A private enterprise can relocate, it can shut down, it can spin off, it can undergo merger and a complete metamorphosis to a degree that it has no resemblance to the original company (unlike a nation). If occidental capital funded the initial setup of Saudi Aramco, it does not mean US nor UK did it!
    - elthran 11y ago
      I believe he is using the word occidental as the opposite of oriental - rather than the easier to comprehend western
  - thetruthseeker1 11y ago
    I find the argument really odd. For eg: India's borders were drawn by the British in 1947. Is the British responsible for the staggering growth rate of India or any success attributed to India since. Same thing with Saudi: US or any other country did what they did, I am sure taking into account their interests. Since both India and Saudi Arabia are sovereign nations, it is their actions that have either propped them up or otherwise.
kaonashi 11y ago
> Any country that relies on natural resources for its wealth will suffer when those resources dry up and are not replaced with some form of productions Tell that to the free trade/comparative advantage crowd.

by dexwiz 11y ago

madengr 11y ago

I bought a package of dates that were grown in SA, but have seen nothing else.

steve19 11y ago
Saudi has many potential exports. They have massive non-oil mineral resources they can exploit when they choose to do so. They have fertilizer, water and sun in unlimited quantities (cheap energy + salt water = fresh water). They could feed the world if they wanted to. For example the largest vertically integrated dairy corporation in the world is in Saudi Arabia. They have the ability to green the desert and they are doing this right now. They are also gearing up for future war (and not just in the headline making military acquisitions reporters get all excited about, I mean the boring nuts and bolts you need to sustain massive prolonged military campaigns) It's easy for the mainstream and financial media to make fun of the Kingdom. They are not going anywhere anytime soon. If anything, the oil price is going to be a wake up call that forces them to diversify faster than they were already doing so.

iofj 11y ago

> When was the last time you bought something made in Saudi Arabia? Given just how much ownership they have in American companies, I imagine it would have been quite recently. Probably your mortgage is partly Saudi as well. Of course this only works for the Saudi elite, not for normal Saudis. > Its an end of an era. The war in Yemen keeps aggression pointed outward, but as soon as the populace tires and the payoffs stop coming it will turn inward I would be terrified if I lived in a nation that has >30% foreigners that are kept from being citizens and kept out of the vast majority of decent jobs.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- Retric 11y ago
  For perspective 1% US GDP for 6 years is more than All foreign investment by Saudi Arabia.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
adventured 11y ago
Saudi Arabia is almost entirely irrelevant financially compared to the scale of the US. It's a piker to put it nicely. The US owns around 43% of all global wealth. Saudi's foreign reserves (~$595 billion) represent the equivalent value of 2% of just the US residential housing market. Or a bit more than the market cap of one Apple or Google.
- tim333 11y ago
  ok but "Saudi Aramco's value has been estimated at anywhere between US$1.25 trillion and US$10 trillion" or like 10 Apples. Plus they have other assets.

jbuzbee 11y ago

> When was the last time you bought something made in Saudi Arabia? My family and I vacationed on Saudi Arabia back in 2000. We looked and looked for locally made items as souvenirs of our trip. Everything was imported. There was zero local industry. I finally picked up a discarded, hand-made camel hobble out of a dung pile. My family gave me a hard time, but hey! It was locally crafted with hand-woven rope and a hand-carved handle! It's now a unique momento hanging on our "travel wall" as a conversation starter.

brianwawok 11y ago
> We looked and looked for locally made items as souvenirs of our trip. Everything was imported. Sadly that is not a Saudi Arabia thing. Last time I was in Jamaica, 95% of the shops were stuffed with Jamaican looking things.. generally all with a "made in china" tag. It is a weird world we live in where even the handcrafted tourist trinkets are imported.

GabrielF00 11y ago

I don't think the US "made" Saudi Arabia. My recollection is that the Saud family defeated their local rivals and established the Saudi state in the 20s and 30s, and that American political involvement with Saudi Arabia really only began towards the end of WW2.

dexwiz 11y ago
This is true. The Sauds did conquer many surrounding tribes in the first half of the 20ths century. But without international allies, Saudi Arabia would never have been able to independently develop their reserves and have the wealth they have today.
saryant 11y ago
American government involvement began after WWII (marked by Roosevelt's meeting with Ibn Saud), but American industrial involvement began earlier, essentially bankrolling the fledgling state in the 1930's when Major Frank Holmes, under direction from Ibn Saud, offered an oil concession to Standard Oil of California only after extracting a large upfront payment from Socal.
jqm 11y ago
It was the British who backed the Saud family initially. Towards the end of the Ottoman empire. They gave the Sauds advisers and military support.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  No the British backed the Hashemites (the plot of Laurence of Arabia;)) the territory was split between the 5 sons of Hussein ibn Ali of which only Jordan currently remains Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria and a few other regions that do not exist today were lost to secterial conflict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashemites https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashemites
  - jqm 11y ago
    ? It's an easily checked fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud Excerpt: "After World War I, he received further support from the British, including a glut of surplus munitions. He launched his campaign against the Al Rashidi in 1920; by 1922 they had been all but destroyed."

sharkweek 11y ago

I really liked the movie Syriana, and this quote always stuck out to me: "But what do you need a financial advisor for? Twenty years ago you had the highest Gross National Product in the world, now you're tied with Albania. Your second largest export is secondhand goods, closely followed by dates which you're losing five cents a pound on... You know what the business community thinks of you? They think that a hundred years ago you were living in tents out here in the desert chopping each other's heads off and that's where you'll be in another hundred years, so, yes, on behalf of my firm I accept your money." Super fascinating film that I highly recommend - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365737/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365737/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt

thetruthseeker1 11y ago

This reeks of condescension. I don't believe US made Saudi Arabia, but I do think Saudi Arabia benefited from US and US from Saudi. The partnership was a good one for both probably, but America through it ingeniousness and also through circumstances ended up being the country with highest GDP. Now Saudi has capital and resources, it is upto it on how it uses it, it is interesting article from NYtimes that talks about the challenges Saudis face, but I dont believe that "Saudi" or any country for that matter is destined for failure.

dpc59 11y ago
Saudi aramco was a company built by occidental capital, the saudi regime was propped up by occidental politicians, saudi arabia's borders were drawn by england.
- thetruthseeker1 11y ago
  Not sure why I got down voted for this! I hope I am not down voted just because people disagree with my view point? I thought the guidelines clearly said that you only down vote when I say something that does not add value to the discussion. If Saudi's borders were drawn by England, how did US make Saudi by that definition. I still stand my ground that there is some kind of a we(US and England) are better than you (Saudi Arabia ) tone here. Occidental Capital is a private enterprise it looks like, a private enterprise is not a nation. A private enterprise can relocate, it can shut down, it can spin off, it can undergo merger and a complete metamorphosis to a degree that it has no resemblance to the original company (unlike a nation). If occidental capital funded the initial setup of Saudi Aramco, it does not mean US nor UK did it!
  - elthran 11y ago
    I believe he is using the word occidental as the opposite of oriental - rather than the easier to comprehend western
- thetruthseeker1 11y ago
  I find the argument really odd. For eg: India's borders were drawn by the British in 1947. Is the British responsible for the staggering growth rate of India or any success attributed to India since. Same thing with Saudi: US or any other country did what they did, I am sure taking into account their interests. Since both India and Saudi Arabia are sovereign nations, it is their actions that have either propped them up or otherwise.

kaonashi 11y ago

> Any country that relies on natural resources for its wealth will suffer when those resources dry up and are not replaced with some form of productions Tell that to the free trade/comparative advantage crowd.