3 ms·

So is ZFS more prone to defects without ECC than let's say EXT4 or NTFS? I would like to buy a notebook with ECC ram, but Intel doesn't care.

by frik 11y ago

RotsiserMho 11y ago
No, all are equally prone to errors if a bit in RAM is unexpectedly flipped. My understanding is that ZFS requires more RAM and possibly more CPU than other filesystems and those costs aren't worth it if you're going to use RAM that can't detect errors anyway.
usefulcat 11y ago
No, no one is saying that ZFS is more prone to defects without ECC. Lack of ECC increases the risk of corruption for any filesystem. The reason you hear more about ECC in the context of ZFS is that data integrity is a key feature for many who choose to use ZFS.
X-Istence 11y ago
To answer your question: No. They are all just as prone to defects.
takeda 11y ago
I don't understand why this is so often misunderstood. The parent poster already stated the opposite. ECC and ZFS are orthogonal. ECC ensures that data in your RAM is not corrupted (or rather detects corruption) it helps whether you use ZFS, EXT4, NTFS etc. ZFS increases your data safety whether you use ECC or not, but if you have to have maximum assurance that data is fine you should use ZFS and ECC.
- empthought 11y ago
  As far as I can tell, the ECC/ZFS paranoia traces back to "cyberjock" on the FreeNAS forums. https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ecc-vs-non-ecc-ram-and-zfs.15449/ https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ecc-vs-non-ecc-...
  - ryao 11y ago
    This is correct. He considers ECC so important that he is willing to spread FUD about non-ECC behavior to try to scare people into using ECC. I think the truth is scary enough to convince people, but he does not agree.
Sanddancer 11y ago
They do. There are now Xeon E3 notebooks that have ECC. It's something new they added with Skylake for that reason. They're designed as mobile workstations, so you're gonna be looking at at least $1700 for a laptop, but good quality's always expensive.
ryao 11y ago
ECC is just as important for EXT4 and NTFS as it is for ZFS.

So is ZFS more prone to defects without ECC than let's say EXT4 or NTFS? I would like to buy a notebook with ECC ram, but Intel doesn't care.

by frik 11y ago

So is ZFS more prone to defects without ECC than let's say EXT4 or NTFS? I would like to buy a notebook with ECC ram, but Intel doesn't care.

RotsiserMho 11y ago

No, all are equally prone to errors if a bit in RAM is unexpectedly flipped. My understanding is that ZFS requires more RAM and possibly more CPU than other filesystems and those costs aren't worth it if you're going to use RAM that can't detect errors anyway.

usefulcat 11y ago

No, no one is saying that ZFS is more prone to defects without ECC. Lack of ECC increases the risk of corruption for any filesystem. The reason you hear more about ECC in the context of ZFS is that data integrity is a key feature for many who choose to use ZFS.

X-Istence 11y ago

To answer your question: No. They are all just as prone to defects.

takeda 11y ago

I don't understand why this is so often misunderstood. The parent poster already stated the opposite. ECC and ZFS are orthogonal. ECC ensures that data in your RAM is not corrupted (or rather detects corruption) it helps whether you use ZFS, EXT4, NTFS etc. ZFS increases your data safety whether you use ECC or not, but if you have to have maximum assurance that data is fine you should use ZFS and ECC.

empthought 11y ago
As far as I can tell, the ECC/ZFS paranoia traces back to "cyberjock" on the FreeNAS forums. https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ecc-vs-non-ecc-ram-and-zfs.15449/ https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ecc-vs-non-ecc-...
- ryao 11y ago
  This is correct. He considers ECC so important that he is willing to spread FUD about non-ECC behavior to try to scare people into using ECC. I think the truth is scary enough to convince people, but he does not agree.

Sanddancer 11y ago

They do. There are now Xeon E3 notebooks that have ECC. It's something new they added with Skylake for that reason. They're designed as mobile workstations, so you're gonna be looking at at least $1700 for a laptop, but good quality's always expensive.

ryao 11y ago

ECC is just as important for EXT4 and NTFS as it is for ZFS.