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A visit with Apple’s chief chipmaker
- ksec 11y agoJust wondering, are those special Mac Mini Builds, Custom WiFi integration hints of something to come?
- protomyth 11y ago"Srouji was nicely rewarded for his efforts. In December he became the newest member of Cook’s management team and received about 90,000 additional shares of Apple stock, which vest over a four-year period." Wonder what his team got that pulled of the needed engineering 6 months early? I'm sure they missed a lot of family life.
- EliRivers 11y agoApple is their family now.
- gsibble 11y agoI hear all too frequently that the rank and file engineers at Apple are not compensated too well.
- koffiezet 11y agoNot what I heard from a friend that now works there... He consistently got raises (and some stock) when achieving things, and says he really shouldn't be complaining since he now makes almost triple than what he used to make at his previous job. But maybe he's the exception.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoLikely the only thing is that they can put on their resume that they found a way to cut 6 months off the development time of the iPad Pro.
- whitegrape 11y agoEither nothing, or $1k-3k spot bonuses. The leads might be able to complain in a few months / hint at leaving and get a significant raise or more RSUs.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- nicolast 11y ago(referring to move from 32bit to 64bit): "The new technology allowed for entirely new features, such as Apple Pay and the Touch ID fingerprint scanner. Developers had to rewrite applications to account for the new standard, but it gave way to smoother maps, cooler video games, and generally more responsive apps that don’t hog as much memory." Right.
- strmpnk 11y agoThe memory comment certainly raises questions. Tagging pointers on 64bit ARM does allow some new techniques for compactness but it'd be hard to claim this overcomes the doubled pointer size. Does anyone have data on how memory use was impacted between architectures for the same code base? I recall the Objective-C runtime taking advantage of this so perhaps it's only a slight tax if you rely Apple's frameworks.
- jakobegger 11y agoEven bigger than tagged pointers is the inline retain count in the 64bit ARM runtime. This makes retain/release much faster... No more global locks and hash tables.
- glhaynes 11y agoConsidering the context of the sentence being around how 64-bit systems required app "rewrites", I'm guessing the fact that there are memory savings on devices that are running entirely 64-bit apps (because the system doesn't have to load 32-bit versions of libraries) might have journalistically transmogrified into "apps that don't hog as much memory."
- bydo 11y agoDespite the linkbait-y You-Won't-BELIEVE-What-Happens-Next title (spoilers: the executive is SVP of Hardware Technologies Johny Srouji, in charge of microprocessor design), an interesting article. I worry that Bloomberg isn't sure if it wants its website to be Buzzfeed or the Atlantic.
- bwilliams18 11y agoWhy can't it split the difference. Also Buzzfeed has grown into a serious news operation, investigating many stories (Tennis Fixing), and breaking others.
- frandroid 11y agoEither way, it has tons of good original writing, which nails one of the important points to ensure your survival as a publisher. I mean, there's also these Bloomberg boxes that are a nice sideline...
- Nanite 11y agothat and fluff piece tone is rather annoying. I'm sure Johny Srouij is a highly competent Apple SVP considering their standards. But correct me if I'm wrong, as far as I know Apple's custom SoC's are still mostly a collection of licenced ARM IP blocks contracted out to either either TSMC or Samsung. Credit when credit's due, but the author goes a bit overboard, in praise.
- kccqzy 11y agoHave you noticed the fact that no other Samsung chip has reached the single thread performance of the A7 in iPhone 5s? The architecture may be licensed but the chip design is not.
- macintux 11y agoI was quite surprised by the analyst's assertion that Samsung has the lead. Certainly on manufacturing (especially since Apple doesn't actually manufacture them) but their chips in general?
- amelius 11y ago> “The only way for Apple to really differentiate and deliver something truly unique and truly great, you have to own your own silicon” Why is that so? For ages we have relied on Intel and AMD, and that worked pretty well.
- jeromegv 11y agoMobile world is quite different.
- macintux 11y agoAgreed. Battery life (and hence power requirements) are critical to the success of a phone. Sensors are much more important. Connectivity is much more challenging. Size is critical.
- amelius 11y agoBut the question is: why can't a dedicated semiconductor company deal with that?
- macintux 11y agoBecause tradeoffs. You can't have everything you want, so you want all of your hardware from the chip to the radio to the camera to be optimized for your priorities. Given their volume, Apple could probably have outsourced design and still gotten reasonable results, but look at what happened when they outsourced their chip production to Samsung: they helped create their closest competitor. And it helps their overall business model to keep competitive/strategic decisions under wraps as long as possible, which would be harder if someone else was apprised of their chip direction.
- trebor 11y agoI think it's because they're aiming for anything they can innovate on. With custom silicon, you can optimize the hardware pathways digitally and by hand. I've heard that the gains can be worth the effort, but it's a bit out of my depth.
- weinzierl 11y ago“When designers say, ‘This is hard,’ ” he says, “my rule of thumb is if it’s not gated by physics, that means it’s hard but doable.” What a wonderful statement. I like this spirit, especially that he only mentions physics, not money.
- ProAm 11y agoWith enough time and money anything's possible.
- WJW 11y agoExcept those things gated by science.
- BinaryIdiot 11y agoConsidering there is so much we don't understand it's possible those gates could artificial depending on what's being worked on. Or maybe there is a workaround we haven't figured out yet. I'm optimistic that many things people say today that are impossible will eventually become possible. Except time travel to the past; that shit just hurts my head :)
- Retric 11y agoLet's start with something we all know and love. Computers, I want one that 1 trillion times faster how? Unfortunately, physics has not changed much. There is a great speech from 1959 about how small you can make things: http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/feynman.html http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/feynman.html People don't say that anymore, because we are already building really tiny things. Sure when your using ~10^20th atoms in a transistor there is a lot of room to grow. In 2008, researchers made transistors one atom thick and ten atoms wide. Where do you go from there? People want to say 3d, but we already make chips in several layers and heat is an issue.
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
- cherry_su 11y agoI can imagine that part of his team's excellence and efficiency is due to not focusing on differences not directly relevant to technical problems: Although Israel grapples with Jewish-Arab tensions all the time, none of it mattered in Srouji’s world. Cohn, who remains friends with him, says their different backgrounds never came up. “Technical people treat technical people based on personality and technical ability,” he says. “You don’t think about it. You just work together. The rest goes away.”
- golergka 11y agoThat's more or less the norm for secular israelis, regardless of ethnicity.
- Cyph0n 11y agoI'm sure they treat their fellow Palestinian Muslims well.
- golergka 11y agoFar better than almost any other nations in a state of war, actually. Civilian to combatant death ratio was about 1:1 in the latest 2014 war, 4 times better than the usual modern wars involving first-world nations.
- Cyph0n 11y agoWhat a war it was indeed. Aerial bombardment of a walled city. A rocket launched from Gaza injures a few people in Israel; a bomb (no need to mention phosphorous wink wink) dropped from a state-of-the-art fighter jet destroys an entire city block. And when Israel finally decided that it was time for the "mighty" IDF ground forces to enter the stage... nothing really happened. The rockets just continued to be launched from Gaza for a whole month. It was a really amusing "war" to watch in my opinion :D
- golergka 11y ago
- minikites 11y ago“I truly believe that engineers will do their best when they are constrained by either money, tools, or resources. If you become sloppy because you have too much money, that’s the wrong mindset.” A very perceptive mindset, in my opinion.
- ksk 11y agoWhile this is obviously a fluff piece, its interesting to note that, what started as a management fuck-up - how the iPad Pro schedule was mismanaged - ended up with the management pushing the engineers to work harder while the reward went to the people responsible for the mess in the first place. Choice quotes "Apple had a problem". The blame always seems to be shared. How about - The management fucked up the release schedule. "That gave most of Apple’s engineers more time." "It gave a little-known executive named Johny Srouji much less." So this makes it seem like it was harder on the executive than the people doing the actual work.
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago> ended up with the management pushing the engineers to work harder while the reward went to the people responsible for the mess in the first place. Unfortunately this is how it almost always works in business. I'll never forget the times I've worked harder to make a newly created deadline only for the management to gain a reward and nothing for me. Who cares I worked until 2am every day for weeks while they left at 5pm because they "weren't coders". I'm sure most in the tech industry goes through this and it's not healthy. Yeah yeah I know you're salaried so you shouldn't expect more but when management gains more because they imposed new deadlines for you to hit, it creates resentment among the developers and eventually an exodus. I've seen it happen 3 times so far in my career. You'd think I'd learn my lesson but it's hard finding a place that actually rewards both employees and management (or rewards none of them which would be more fair in someways and worse in others considering only the top executives benefit at that point). Sorry, ranting a bit.
- HillaryBriss 11y agoGood stuff. Rant on.
- csixty4 11y ago> Who cares I worked until 2am every day for weeks while they left at 5pm because they "weren't coders". > Sorry, ranting a bit. Rant away! I don't want to hijack this thread, but there's a story I like to share with people when they become new managers. It's from Herb Ryman, one of the first Disney Imagineers. "The year was 1953. Walt [Disney] said, ‘Hi Herbie. I’m over here at the studio. I wonder if you could come over here. Just come the way you are, I’ll be out front waiting for you.’ I was curious, and flattered that he picked up the phone and called me. I had no idea what he wanted. He met me out front and shook my hand saying, ‘Hi Herbie, we’re in the Zorro building.’ So we went in, and I asked what this was all about. He said, ‘My brother Roy has to go to New York on Monday morning. He’s got to talk to some bankers there. You know bankers don’t have any imagination, none at all. You have to show them what you are going to do. Roy has to show them what this place is going to look like.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’d like to see what this place is going to look like, too. Where have you got all this stuff?’ I thought maybe it was in the other room. Walt said, ‘You’re going to do it.’ I said, ‘No I’m not.’ There was a brief pause. Walt paced back and forth- we were alone in the room. He went over to the corner and he turned his head around with his back to me and said, ‘Will you do it if I stay here with you?’ ‘Yes, I’ll do it if you stay here.’"
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- HillaryBriss 11y ago"His father had an unusual philosophy: He would undercharge customers for complicated work while overcharging for easier jobs." -- Maybe this also applies to freelance coding. “Hard is good. Easy is a waste of time.” -- If I had the motivation and guts, I'd put this on my coffee cup. But I'm sure it would make me a magnet for abuse.
- JabavuAdams 11y ago> But I'm sure it would make me a magnet for abuse. Crush them.
- snowwrestler 11y agoI have known a freelancer who sort of did this, by preferring projects that required them to extend their skills, but not charging the client for the time they take to learn the new skills (i.e. before they start working on the actual deliverable). The result was a lower average hourly rate to them, but it helped them stay up to date--and in some cases on the cutting edge. Why? Because it's easier to learn a new technology when there is a real project at stake. The deadline and accountability provides strong motivation, and there are real problems that need to be solved along the way--not just self-directed exercises. I'm not a freelancer but I can see the long-term advantage of that approach. If you're one of just a few people who can do the cool new thing, then you can charge higher margins on easier projects, because you have less competition for the jobs. Personally, I have never learned as much as when I am working a real project (i.e. paid, deliverable) that is a bit outside my current comfort zone.
- boxfire 11y agoAnd with this I am thoroughly convinced Hacker News is Slashdot with significantly fewer of the troll comments. This is obviously pure marketing. Congrats to Apple, I am sure this does in fact win them both sales and talent.
- Aissen 11y agoRegarding Apple's SoC bet, this is just crazy. In tech, this type of long-term strategy is unheard of. Who can bet what will still be here in three years ? five years ? 8 years is a long, long time. And they consistently made correct choices: be the first on ARMv7(then with samsung's chip), on ARMv8 (nobody belived in ARM 64 bits then), be the first to bet on powerful GPUs (and the crazy impact it has on the whole SoC). I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now, and I'm quite (half)surprised they haven't released anything yet: one does not simply acquire the 30-year expertise of Imagination in such a short timespan. NVIDIA tried going in the mobile SoC business, and after 5 generations and billions burned they finally gave up. What Apple did (and keeps doing, by putting Samsung, Qualcomm to shame[1]), is mind boggling. They are even approaching Intel's perf-per-watt[2] ratio. [1] http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/6 http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphon... [2]: http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/4 http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/4
- petra 11y agoIt's easy to mistake causation with regard to Apple's decisions. Did 64-bit became popular because it was better ? Or did 64-bit became popular because Apple chose it and it became a marketing term ? >> be the first to bet on powerful GPUs Sure they are the first to bet on expensive stuff - they have the most margin and sales, a more profitable ecosystem - so it's easier to justify the risk of more complex coding(by an app developer), etc. >> I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now From what i hear, they use the best of Imagination , while locking it out of the industry. But i would be happy to learn otherwise. And i'm not saying Apple didn't create an impressive chip, but creating impressive chips is much easier than sustaining a good business for them. Also ,the real power of the chip is for marketing - one critical tool in building luxury brands is a story about unique creation ,creating stuff that nobody else can do ,etc. So that's a very valuable story.
- monocasa 11y agoThey have a ~10% stake in Imagination. That's pretty close to a controlling amount for practical purposes for a publicly traded company.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- vedaprodarte 11y ago“Steve came to the conclusion that the only way for Apple to really differentiate and deliver something truly unique and truly great, you have to own your own silicon,” Srouji says. “You have to control and own it.” This words are very encouraging for entrepreneurs. No matter you like Apple or not, this philosophy made Apple succeed.
- sangnoir 11y ago> This words are very encouraging for entrepreneurs. Sounds like an non-sequitur to me: what's the link between Apple and entrepreneurs, and why should they be encouraged? Shouldn't they be encouraged by commoditization of silicon instead? >90% of kickstarted/'maker' projects would vanish if step 1 were "have your own silicon"