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Obama announces Cuba trip

61 points by miiiiiike 11y ago

ck2 11y ago
I'm always confused about the duality of our pro-China but anti-Cuba attitude. The idea of saturating Cuba with Americans to try something different to awaken the people to alternatives is a good idea, at least better than what we've done for the past half century. And the scale of the evil the Castros have done is nothing compared to China. Cuba doesn't kidnap people from other countries and have them suddenly appear on Cuba TV confessing to crimes.
- grabcocque 11y ago
  The CIA had spent a lot of time and money installing and arming the Batista regime, a murderous, brutal but pliant Mafia-backed kleptocracy in Cuba, and were absolutely furious when it was suddenly taken away from them. The US has basically been sulking ever since.
  - flanbiscuit 11y ago
    And to add to that, the Cubans who fled during and right after the revolution started a Cuban-American Lobby that has been able to continually influence the hard stance our government has taken on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban-American_lobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban-American_lobby
- moistgorilla 11y ago
  >The idea of saturating Cuba with Americans to try something different to awaken the people to alternatives is a good idea, at least better than what we've done for the past half century. Except this wont happen. The natives will become (as they are now) second class to tourists and foreign businesses. The people this benefits are the Castro regime, foreign business, and people that want a new cheap tourist destination.
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    The more tourists there, the better that second class status will be. Yes, it would be great if the country just got a good democratic government, with strong institutions. But while that doesn't happen (and the US can not force a change), it helps not to make things worse.
- rtpg 11y ago
  I think the comparison isn't great (I believe the Cuban regime would kidnap people and bring them back if they had the capability to), but there's a lot of history that happens to cause status quos, and the status quo is hard to change. But I think you know that.... For what its worth, if you talk to a random person, there's a very pro-Cuba and anti-China attitude. I'd say the US gov't position difference is more an indicator of Chinese power than anything else.
  - jahnu 11y ago
    Also China is going to be an even bigger player as the decades roll by, no matter what anyone else wants. Cuba will never be anything other than a small player on the world stage.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  One concern that has always bugged me is that many opponents of relations with Cuba bring up Cuba's confiscation of property and goods owned by locals and foreigners while always giving China a pass on the same. This treatment of Cuba is long overdue for correction and my only disappointment with Obama is that he didn't do this on his first term. To be out front with it, I am so tired of American leaderships not acting upon entering office and instead waiting until they are reelected when doing things that deserved to be done.
  - adwf 11y ago
    Simple, if he'd acted on it during his first term, there probably wouldn't have been a second term to do anything in...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- ck2 11y ago
  Cuba is a new market for startups of all kinds, including natives making their own startups (once they get reliable internet).
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- colinramsay 11y ago
  "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think a story is spam or off-topic, flag it by clicking on its "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you think a comment is egregious, click on its timestamp to go to its page, then click "flag" at the top." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Jedd 11y ago
Here's what I (as a relatively poorly informed AU citizen who's 'travelled a bit') don't understand about the reaction to this news. It's clearly not the ideal end-game state. But, it seems to be a marked improvement on the previous (half-century-long) situation. And in order to get from current to ideal, there'll be some intermediary stuff. In tech this is a common and well understood progression - ideally it's short, well managed, not-too-painful, etc. But basically unavoidable. So why is this announcement being judged in terms of 'This isn't perfect'?
- tossaway1 11y ago
  There's a vocal minority of Americans who oppose any softening of policy towards a Castro Cuba. Many (most?) of these have ties to men and women who fled Castro decades ago and who lost a lot to the Castro regime.
  - jahnu 11y ago
    There also seems to be an incredible effort to prevent Obama from achieving almost anything.
known 11y ago
Trade, Not Trust;
erbdex 11y ago
Incidentally- “The United States will come talk to us when it has a black president and the world has a Latin American pope,” -- Fidel Castro, 1973 Edit: flanbiscuit pointed out that there is no official record of this statement. Letting it stay, as a mythbuster.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- flanbiscuit 11y ago
  I don't think that he actually said that http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/19/fidel-castro-prophet-debunking-pope-and-obama-urban-legend http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/19/fidel-castro-pr... http://www.snopes.com/fidel-castro-prophecy-quote/ http://www.snopes.com/fidel-castro-prophecy-quote/

61 points by miiiiiike 11y ago

ck2 11y ago

I'm always confused about the duality of our pro-China but anti-Cuba attitude. The idea of saturating Cuba with Americans to try something different to awaken the people to alternatives is a good idea, at least better than what we've done for the past half century. And the scale of the evil the Castros have done is nothing compared to China. Cuba doesn't kidnap people from other countries and have them suddenly appear on Cuba TV confessing to crimes.

grabcocque 11y ago
The CIA had spent a lot of time and money installing and arming the Batista regime, a murderous, brutal but pliant Mafia-backed kleptocracy in Cuba, and were absolutely furious when it was suddenly taken away from them. The US has basically been sulking ever since.
- flanbiscuit 11y ago
  And to add to that, the Cubans who fled during and right after the revolution started a Cuban-American Lobby that has been able to continually influence the hard stance our government has taken on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban-American_lobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban-American_lobby
moistgorilla 11y ago
>The idea of saturating Cuba with Americans to try something different to awaken the people to alternatives is a good idea, at least better than what we've done for the past half century. Except this wont happen. The natives will become (as they are now) second class to tourists and foreign businesses. The people this benefits are the Castro regime, foreign business, and people that want a new cheap tourist destination.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  The more tourists there, the better that second class status will be. Yes, it would be great if the country just got a good democratic government, with strong institutions. But while that doesn't happen (and the US can not force a change), it helps not to make things worse.
rtpg 11y ago
I think the comparison isn't great (I believe the Cuban regime would kidnap people and bring them back if they had the capability to), but there's a lot of history that happens to cause status quos, and the status quo is hard to change. But I think you know that.... For what its worth, if you talk to a random person, there's a very pro-Cuba and anti-China attitude. I'd say the US gov't position difference is more an indicator of Chinese power than anything else.
- jahnu 11y ago
  Also China is going to be an even bigger player as the decades roll by, no matter what anyone else wants. Cuba will never be anything other than a small player on the world stage.
Shivetya 11y ago
One concern that has always bugged me is that many opponents of relations with Cuba bring up Cuba's confiscation of property and goods owned by locals and foreigners while always giving China a pass on the same. This treatment of Cuba is long overdue for correction and my only disappointment with Obama is that he didn't do this on his first term. To be out front with it, I am so tired of American leaderships not acting upon entering office and instead waiting until they are reelected when doing things that deserved to be done.
- adwf 11y ago
  Simple, if he'd acted on it during his first term, there probably wouldn't have been a second term to do anything in...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

ck2 11y ago
Cuba is a new market for startups of all kinds, including natives making their own startups (once they get reliable internet).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
colinramsay 11y ago
"Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think a story is spam or off-topic, flag it by clicking on its "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you think a comment is egregious, click on its timestamp to go to its page, then click "flag" at the top." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Jedd 11y ago

Here's what I (as a relatively poorly informed AU citizen who's 'travelled a bit') don't understand about the reaction to this news. It's clearly not the ideal end-game state. But, it seems to be a marked improvement on the previous (half-century-long) situation. And in order to get from current to ideal, there'll be some intermediary stuff. In tech this is a common and well understood progression - ideally it's short, well managed, not-too-painful, etc. But basically unavoidable. So why is this announcement being judged in terms of 'This isn't perfect'?

tossaway1 11y ago
There's a vocal minority of Americans who oppose any softening of policy towards a Castro Cuba. Many (most?) of these have ties to men and women who fled Castro decades ago and who lost a lot to the Castro regime.
- jahnu 11y ago
  There also seems to be an incredible effort to prevent Obama from achieving almost anything.

known 11y ago

Trade, Not Trust;

erbdex 11y ago

Incidentally- “The United States will come talk to us when it has a black president and the world has a Latin American pope,” -- Fidel Castro, 1973 Edit: flanbiscuit pointed out that there is no official record of this statement. Letting it stay, as a mythbuster.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
flanbiscuit 11y ago
I don't think that he actually said that http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/19/fidel-castro-prophet-debunking-pope-and-obama-urban-legend http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/19/fidel-castro-pr... http://www.snopes.com/fidel-castro-prophecy-quote/ http://www.snopes.com/fidel-castro-prophecy-quote/