7 ms·

Leap Motion: Orion [video]

135 points by tiagobraw 11y ago

killa_kyle 11y ago
Glad to see they improved the software. Here's a video someone uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhBaY1UMOJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhBaY1UMOJs
soylentcola 11y ago
A while back (maybe a year or so) I played with the early alpha/beta support for the whole "stick your Leap on the front of your Rift" thing. It was really cool and seemed like something I'd expect to see in future VR headsets. I'll have to check out this new software since it seems they've continued to develop it.
rkangel 11y ago
There was a slightly worrying bit of latency visible here: https://youtu.be/rnlCGw-0R8g?t=32 https://youtu.be/rnlCGw-0R8g?t=32
- leapmotion_alex 11y ago
  Much of that is the projector. The experience within the headset itself is much tighter, less than 35 ms from end to end. (Our tech accounts for 12-13 milliseconds, while a 90 Hz VR display and the GPU add about another 22.) While the experience of latency varies from person to person, we've found that this level generally doesn't register on human perception. Head tracking needs to be less than 20 ms because you're relying on both your vestibular system AND your eyes to be in sync. If they're not in sync, your brain will interpret this as you being ill, and you will feel sick. With your hands, you only really have your sense of proprioception, so the latency restriction is lighter.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  I've had a Leap motion since very early on, and it's been working very well. Especially the software update where they upgraded to a skeletal hand model has made many glitches go away. Both latency and accuracy have been great, so maybe the latency there is because of the animation? I'm not quite sure, but based on how good my experience has been with the first Leap, I doubt this one is worse.
  - killa_kyle 11y ago
    Here's another video: GEOMETRIC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLEEVGxu_k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLEEVGxu_k8
thenomad 11y ago
I've just been testing this out. It works. Not perfectly, for me, so far - it's a little wobbly, and I heartily recommend clearing your desk before beginning. With a headset-mounted Leap the close distance isn't particularly close, and it DOES work fine at arm's length. Unless what's sitting at arm's length is an expensive condenser mic, in which case you will a) fail to grab the block you're reaching for and b) punch your microphone. Also, calibration is about as much fun as it is with most optical devices. For anyone who has never had that particular joy - it's not much fun. Tip if you're doing this - rotate the Leap, don't just move it around. Also, I had to iterate through about three allegedly reflective surfaces to get one that worked - ironically enough I ended up using the screen of my Surface Pro. But it's orders of magnitude better than the last time I tried the Leap, and I suspect with a darker room it'd work even better. No latency I could feel, and I could throw blocks around and build towers in VR fine. Very impressed indeed. This evening I'm going to give it another go once the irritatingly persistent IR emitter in the sky goes away, and I'll also be trying their Warlock Battle game, which looks like lots of fun...
- hobo_mark 11y ago
  Is this "just" new software compatible with current devices or new hardware altogether?
  - zardo 11y ago
    My understanding is both, but the new hardware isn't a consumer device, it's a component meant for integration in a VR headset.
  - thenomad 11y ago
    I've got an original Leap and it worked fine for me. It makes reference to needing a mount for the VR attachment, but elsewhere on their site they teach you how to DIY the mount with duct tape :)
    - mchahn 11y ago
      > I've got an original Leap and it worked fine for me. Interesting. What did you use it for? I got one and couldn't find a single useful application.
baldfat 11y ago
What is happening on the Augmented Reality technology that Leap was originally showing? I am much more interested in Augmented then Virtual and was hoping to see Leap move more in that area. I haven't seen anything since July 2015.
- zacharypinter 11y ago
  You're probably thinking of Magic Leap, which is a completely different company from Leap Motion.
  - guelo 11y ago
    Well that seems like a big trademark problem.
    - baldfat 11y ago
      Both formed in 2010. Leap Motion is also doing some Augmented Reality. Hard to fight the over $1,300,000,000 in funding that Magic Leap has been able to raise.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    Your 100% right I never realized they were two different companies.
- hauget 11y ago
  Meta2 is launching in 2 weeks and just had its first public demo on stage today at TED 2016. Maybe that has something to do with it. Links: - https://www.metavision.com https://www.metavision.com - http://www.roadtovr.com/meta-shows-off-their-next-gen-ar-glasses-on-stage-at-ted/ http://www.roadtovr.com/meta-shows-off-their-next-gen-ar-gla...
hugozap 11y ago
I'm interested in ways devices like this could be used for everyday work, automate some IDE task / editor macros. Subtle Gestures could add another dimension to data input without leaving the keyboard.
adamwong246 11y ago
While it's very neat to see these Johnny-Mnemonic style demos, what I'd really like is a realistic replacement for Apple's Magic Trackpad. I'd buy one if it were able to replace my trackpad on an ordinary desktop environment. I don't need to manipulate cubes in 3d space (who does?!) outside of video games. But I'd love to replace my flat trackpad with a skeletal gesture motion-tracker for more mundane tasks.
- andrei_says_ 11y ago
  Exactly. Something replacing the mouse/trackpad I use for hours a day would have real value for me, too.
  - tdburn 11y ago
    Have you heard of Ractiv? It's a motion controller like a leap, but allows you to treat your keyboard surface like a track pad. So you can stay on the keyboard all the time. I've been trying to buy one for a year but they never reply so I don't know if they are an active business anymore. Ractiv.com
    - dexwiz 11y ago
      http://gharbi.me/ractiv/index.php http://gharbi.me/ractiv/index.php
- gedy 11y ago
  Have you tried with BetterTouchTool? Already was cool for gestures, has support for Leap as well: https://apps.leapmotion.com/apps/bettertouchtool/osx https://apps.leapmotion.com/apps/bettertouchtool/osx
- zminjie 11y ago
  May I ask what exactly are you looking for in the replacement? We are actually building a wearable that gives you full hand tracking without the need for line of sight. It's intended for AR/VR applications since it's just as precise as vision based products without all the downsides. But one thing that's personally important to me that we are incorporating into the product is the ability to turn any surface I touch into a trackpad. It basically gives me a portable trackpad anywhere I go and I can sit 10 feet away from my computer and use my leg or arms of the chair to control my computer. I'm curious what kind of usages you need from a product like this.
freewizard 11y ago
Have to say this amazed me that they are still selling a four year old device and evolving it by upgrading software.
bossx 11y ago
The tracking is an order of magnitude better, using the original device. Impressed.
otoburb 11y ago
The demo shows intricate and precise hand and finger joint tracking, seemingly knowing precisely how both hands are positioned in a small volume of space. Maybe we may soon finally be able to push past the current non-vocal computer input speed barrier imposed by physically typing on a keyboard. The spoken word is roughly around 225wpm[1], while few can claim accurate typing speeds of more than 150wpm for extended periods of time. Example of smaller motor movements that can be performed are finger twitches or trilling piano keys. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute#Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute#Stenotype

135 points by tiagobraw 11y ago

Glad to see they improved the software. Here's a video someone uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhBaY1UMOJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhBaY1UMOJs

soylentcola 11y ago

A while back (maybe a year or so) I played with the early alpha/beta support for the whole "stick your Leap on the front of your Rift" thing. It was really cool and seemed like something I'd expect to see in future VR headsets. I'll have to check out this new software since it seems they've continued to develop it.

rkangel 11y ago

There was a slightly worrying bit of latency visible here: https://youtu.be/rnlCGw-0R8g?t=32 https://youtu.be/rnlCGw-0R8g?t=32

leapmotion_alex 11y ago
Much of that is the projector. The experience within the headset itself is much tighter, less than 35 ms from end to end. (Our tech accounts for 12-13 milliseconds, while a 90 Hz VR display and the GPU add about another 22.) While the experience of latency varies from person to person, we've found that this level generally doesn't register on human perception. Head tracking needs to be less than 20 ms because you're relying on both your vestibular system AND your eyes to be in sync. If they're not in sync, your brain will interpret this as you being ill, and you will feel sick. With your hands, you only really have your sense of proprioception, so the latency restriction is lighter.
StavrosK 11y ago
I've had a Leap motion since very early on, and it's been working very well. Especially the software update where they upgraded to a skeletal hand model has made many glitches go away. Both latency and accuracy have been great, so maybe the latency there is because of the animation? I'm not quite sure, but based on how good my experience has been with the first Leap, I doubt this one is worse.
- killa_kyle 11y ago
  Here's another video: GEOMETRIC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLEEVGxu_k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLEEVGxu_k8

thenomad 11y ago

I've just been testing this out. It works. Not perfectly, for me, so far - it's a little wobbly, and I heartily recommend clearing your desk before beginning. With a headset-mounted Leap the close distance isn't particularly close, and it DOES work fine at arm's length. Unless what's sitting at arm's length is an expensive condenser mic, in which case you will a) fail to grab the block you're reaching for and b) punch your microphone. Also, calibration is about as much fun as it is with most optical devices. For anyone who has never had that particular joy - it's not much fun. Tip if you're doing this - rotate the Leap, don't just move it around. Also, I had to iterate through about three allegedly reflective surfaces to get one that worked - ironically enough I ended up using the screen of my Surface Pro. But it's orders of magnitude better than the last time I tried the Leap, and I suspect with a darker room it'd work even better. No latency I could feel, and I could throw blocks around and build towers in VR fine. Very impressed indeed. This evening I'm going to give it another go once the irritatingly persistent IR emitter in the sky goes away, and I'll also be trying their Warlock Battle game, which looks like lots of fun...

hobo_mark 11y ago
Is this "just" new software compatible with current devices or new hardware altogether?
- zardo 11y ago
  My understanding is both, but the new hardware isn't a consumer device, it's a component meant for integration in a VR headset.
- thenomad 11y ago
  I've got an original Leap and it worked fine for me. It makes reference to needing a mount for the VR attachment, but elsewhere on their site they teach you how to DIY the mount with duct tape :)
  - mchahn 11y ago
    > I've got an original Leap and it worked fine for me. Interesting. What did you use it for? I got one and couldn't find a single useful application.

baldfat 11y ago

What is happening on the Augmented Reality technology that Leap was originally showing? I am much more interested in Augmented then Virtual and was hoping to see Leap move more in that area. I haven't seen anything since July 2015.

zacharypinter 11y ago
You're probably thinking of Magic Leap, which is a completely different company from Leap Motion.
- guelo 11y ago
  Well that seems like a big trademark problem.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    Both formed in 2010. Leap Motion is also doing some Augmented Reality. Hard to fight the over $1,300,000,000 in funding that Magic Leap has been able to raise.
- baldfat 11y ago
  Your 100% right I never realized they were two different companies.
hauget 11y ago
Meta2 is launching in 2 weeks and just had its first public demo on stage today at TED 2016. Maybe that has something to do with it. Links: - https://www.metavision.com https://www.metavision.com - http://www.roadtovr.com/meta-shows-off-their-next-gen-ar-glasses-on-stage-at-ted/ http://www.roadtovr.com/meta-shows-off-their-next-gen-ar-gla...

hugozap 11y ago

I'm interested in ways devices like this could be used for everyday work, automate some IDE task / editor macros. Subtle Gestures could add another dimension to data input without leaving the keyboard.

adamwong246 11y ago

While it's very neat to see these Johnny-Mnemonic style demos, what I'd really like is a realistic replacement for Apple's Magic Trackpad. I'd buy one if it were able to replace my trackpad on an ordinary desktop environment. I don't need to manipulate cubes in 3d space (who does?!) outside of video games. But I'd love to replace my flat trackpad with a skeletal gesture motion-tracker for more mundane tasks.

andrei_says_ 11y ago
Exactly. Something replacing the mouse/trackpad I use for hours a day would have real value for me, too.
- tdburn 11y ago
  Have you heard of Ractiv? It's a motion controller like a leap, but allows you to treat your keyboard surface like a track pad. So you can stay on the keyboard all the time. I've been trying to buy one for a year but they never reply so I don't know if they are an active business anymore. Ractiv.com
  - dexwiz 11y ago
    http://gharbi.me/ractiv/index.php http://gharbi.me/ractiv/index.php
gedy 11y ago
Have you tried with BetterTouchTool? Already was cool for gestures, has support for Leap as well: https://apps.leapmotion.com/apps/bettertouchtool/osx https://apps.leapmotion.com/apps/bettertouchtool/osx
zminjie 11y ago
May I ask what exactly are you looking for in the replacement? We are actually building a wearable that gives you full hand tracking without the need for line of sight. It's intended for AR/VR applications since it's just as precise as vision based products without all the downsides. But one thing that's personally important to me that we are incorporating into the product is the ability to turn any surface I touch into a trackpad. It basically gives me a portable trackpad anywhere I go and I can sit 10 feet away from my computer and use my leg or arms of the chair to control my computer. I'm curious what kind of usages you need from a product like this.

freewizard 11y ago

Have to say this amazed me that they are still selling a four year old device and evolving it by upgrading software.

bossx 11y ago

The tracking is an order of magnitude better, using the original device. Impressed.

otoburb 11y ago

The demo shows intricate and precise hand and finger joint tracking, seemingly knowing precisely how both hands are positioned in a small volume of space. Maybe we may soon finally be able to push past the current non-vocal computer input speed barrier imposed by physically typing on a keyboard. The spoken word is roughly around 225wpm[1], while few can claim accurate typing speeds of more than 150wpm for extended periods of time. Example of smaller motor movements that can be performed are finger twitches or trilling piano keys. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute#Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute#Stenotype