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My name is on a pile of US patents, all assigned to whomever employed me at the time that they were filed. It's always been a condition of employment that I wo

My name is on a pile of US patents, all assigned to whomever employed me at the time that they were filed. It's always been a condition of employment that I would disclose inventions and cooperate with the filing of patent applications. And now there's a bunch of good ideas that I know are not being exploited for value by anybody. I feel as if I have somehow betrayed the scientific Enlightenment by doing my duty by my employers.

moron4hire 11y ago
This is a big part of why I believe employment is not a good arrangement. They overreach because 90% of their workforce won't have anything worth stealing, so it becomes "standard policy" to require you to sign over rights most of your coworkers won't ever have a need to exercise.
- jedberg 11y ago
  At my last couple of jobs, I actually redlined the employment agreement and put an addendum that said that anything I work on away from work on my own hardware is mine. They all accepted it, sometimes with a little back and forth (and in one case three years in came back to me saying "we don't have your employment agreement" and starting the process over again). There was only one place I didn't have to do that -- Netflix. It's part of their standard agreement. It even went one step further and said that even if you use their resources, if you do it on your own time you own it, as long as it's not in direct competition with their business. It was a refreshing change for sure.
  - pmiller2 11y ago
    > There was only one place I didn't have to do that -- Netflix. It's part of their standard agreement. It even went one step further and said that even if you use their resources, if you do it on your own time you own it, as long as it's not in direct competition with their business. It was a refreshing change for sure. My current company has this exact policy. It's one of the many reasons I enjoy working there so much. :)
    - Flimm 11y ago
      Sweet! Who do you work for, if you're willing to share?
      - pmiller2 11y ago
        My email is in my profile if you'd like to send me a message. I'd be glad to share info with you.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - jiiam 11y ago
    I am very interested, may I ask you to provide a reference to such a clause? Maybe when confronted with a real contract it would be better to ask a lawyer, but having seen an example would be useful nonetheless.
    - jedberg 11y ago
      http://imgur.com/ft3FiPR http://imgur.com/ft3FiPR I blacked out all the parts that change based on the company, because I'm not sure how much I was allowed to share. The list of inventions is basically and thing or idea you had that you might want to work on. It's a good place to list any open source projects as well as any ideas you might be working on for a company.
- URSpider94 11y ago
  I don't think that's what the parent is saying. The companies aren't misappropriating his private-time work, merely they own the "work for hire" that he invented while he worked for them. Turning it around, it would be pretty much untenable if employees could file their own parents on work-related inventions done on company time with company equipment.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    No, most invention clauses in employment non-compete documents cover anything even made during off-hours.
    - tremon 11y ago
      It's not just invention clauses. It applies to all intellectual property, including copyright (at least in NL), as long as what you're producing in your own time is related to your job. Exactly how far "related to your job" extends is up for debate. Because of that, I have an additional clause in my employment contract that specifically states that any contribution I write to FOSS projects is mine to license and distribute.
desdiv 11y ago
To play the devil's advocate: 20 years from now someone trying solve a hard problem could stumble upon your patent via a simple google search.
- ajb 11y ago
  I suppose in 20 years google might have developed a machine translation tool from patentese...
- IshKebab 11y ago
  Yeah and learn nothing. Have you read patents?
  - usea 11y ago
    I read a (software) patent for a job I was working a few weeks ago. I stumbled on the patent when doing a broad google search on the topic. I had to read it carefully because of the way it was worded, but I will admit that I came away from reading the patent understanding a novel way to solve a problem that I hadn't considered before. It was the first patent I read all the way through, on a topic I didn't have much experience in. Granted, a single paragraph on a forum or blog could have communicated the idea just as well. In no way am I defending the current state of IP or patent law in the US (on the contrary, I would prefer abolishing all patent law over the current system). However, it's definitely not impossible to learn things from patents.
- toolslive 11y ago
  I've discovered something for the company I worked for, wrote the patent draft and spent weeks trying to explain to the patent lawyers,who wrote the final version, how it worked. So I should have a good understanding of the topic, but yet, I honestly don't understand the granted version of the patent. It's total gibberish.
  - dognotdog 11y ago
    You are not alone, I also do not understand much of my patents after they've been lawyered up. I attribute it to a) them trying to change the language to be as broad as possible, while b) making it also deliberately hard to figure out what the damn thing is supposed to do in the first place.
rahimnathwani 11y ago
"And now there's a bunch of good ideas that I know are not being exploited for value by anybody." Serious question: How could you know that? (Someone could have re-discovered those ideas independently and/or your past employers may not spend effort to identify infringement.)
phkahler 11y ago
>> And now there's a bunch of good ideas that I know are not being exploited for value by anybody. I feel your pain. It's bad enough that the company that holds the patent isn't using it, but you can't use it in future employment. I'll always have this nagging desire to just do it the easy/awesome way, but that's off limits now. The money they give to get a patent isn't worth the roadblock you create for yourself down the road.
- pklausler 11y ago
  I don't even feel like I can discuss some of the topics with other experts, for fear that I will share a solution that puts them at risk of infringement, accidental or otherwise.
anonbanker 11y ago
I always renegotiated that clause in the contract to release all works under a free license (for me, usually GPL), but assign copyright to the corporation.

moron4hire 11y ago

This is a big part of why I believe employment is not a good arrangement. They overreach because 90% of their workforce won't have anything worth stealing, so it becomes "standard policy" to require you to sign over rights most of your coworkers won't ever have a need to exercise.

jedberg 11y ago
At my last couple of jobs, I actually redlined the employment agreement and put an addendum that said that anything I work on away from work on my own hardware is mine. They all accepted it, sometimes with a little back and forth (and in one case three years in came back to me saying "we don't have your employment agreement" and starting the process over again). There was only one place I didn't have to do that -- Netflix. It's part of their standard agreement. It even went one step further and said that even if you use their resources, if you do it on your own time you own it, as long as it's not in direct competition with their business. It was a refreshing change for sure.
- pmiller2 11y ago
  > There was only one place I didn't have to do that -- Netflix. It's part of their standard agreement. It even went one step further and said that even if you use their resources, if you do it on your own time you own it, as long as it's not in direct competition with their business. It was a refreshing change for sure. My current company has this exact policy. It's one of the many reasons I enjoy working there so much. :)
  - Flimm 11y ago
    Sweet! Who do you work for, if you're willing to share?
    - pmiller2 11y ago
      My email is in my profile if you'd like to send me a message. I'd be glad to share info with you.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- jiiam 11y ago
  I am very interested, may I ask you to provide a reference to such a clause? Maybe when confronted with a real contract it would be better to ask a lawyer, but having seen an example would be useful nonetheless.
  - jedberg 11y ago
    http://imgur.com/ft3FiPR http://imgur.com/ft3FiPR I blacked out all the parts that change based on the company, because I'm not sure how much I was allowed to share. The list of inventions is basically and thing or idea you had that you might want to work on. It's a good place to list any open source projects as well as any ideas you might be working on for a company.
URSpider94 11y ago
I don't think that's what the parent is saying. The companies aren't misappropriating his private-time work, merely they own the "work for hire" that he invented while he worked for them. Turning it around, it would be pretty much untenable if employees could file their own parents on work-related inventions done on company time with company equipment.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  No, most invention clauses in employment non-compete documents cover anything even made during off-hours.
  - tremon 11y ago
    It's not just invention clauses. It applies to all intellectual property, including copyright (at least in NL), as long as what you're producing in your own time is related to your job. Exactly how far "related to your job" extends is up for debate. Because of that, I have an additional clause in my employment contract that specifically states that any contribution I write to FOSS projects is mine to license and distribute.

desdiv 11y ago

To play the devil's advocate: 20 years from now someone trying solve a hard problem could stumble upon your patent via a simple google search.

ajb 11y ago
I suppose in 20 years google might have developed a machine translation tool from patentese...
IshKebab 11y ago
Yeah and learn nothing. Have you read patents?
- usea 11y ago
  I read a (software) patent for a job I was working a few weeks ago. I stumbled on the patent when doing a broad google search on the topic. I had to read it carefully because of the way it was worded, but I will admit that I came away from reading the patent understanding a novel way to solve a problem that I hadn't considered before. It was the first patent I read all the way through, on a topic I didn't have much experience in. Granted, a single paragraph on a forum or blog could have communicated the idea just as well. In no way am I defending the current state of IP or patent law in the US (on the contrary, I would prefer abolishing all patent law over the current system). However, it's definitely not impossible to learn things from patents.
toolslive 11y ago
I've discovered something for the company I worked for, wrote the patent draft and spent weeks trying to explain to the patent lawyers,who wrote the final version, how it worked. So I should have a good understanding of the topic, but yet, I honestly don't understand the granted version of the patent. It's total gibberish.
- dognotdog 11y ago
  You are not alone, I also do not understand much of my patents after they've been lawyered up. I attribute it to a) them trying to change the language to be as broad as possible, while b) making it also deliberately hard to figure out what the damn thing is supposed to do in the first place.

rahimnathwani 11y ago

"And now there's a bunch of good ideas that I know are not being exploited for value by anybody." Serious question: How could you know that? (Someone could have re-discovered those ideas independently and/or your past employers may not spend effort to identify infringement.)

phkahler 11y ago

>> And now there's a bunch of good ideas that I know are not being exploited for value by anybody. I feel your pain. It's bad enough that the company that holds the patent isn't using it, but you can't use it in future employment. I'll always have this nagging desire to just do it the easy/awesome way, but that's off limits now. The money they give to get a patent isn't worth the roadblock you create for yourself down the road.

pklausler 11y ago
I don't even feel like I can discuss some of the topics with other experts, for fear that I will share a solution that puts them at risk of infringement, accidental or otherwise.

anonbanker 11y ago

I always renegotiated that clause in the contract to release all works under a free license (for me, usually GPL), but assign copyright to the corporation.