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I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - s
by outside1234 11y ago
I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there.
I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It made me realize that the culture of a place is really what makes it and that "how" you get results really matter. I bought into the Apple pedigree of the place without understanding that the way Tony got there was through essentially wrecking other people's lives.
I have no idea why Google bought this. Tony literally stood up at an all-hands after the Alphabet thing and said "Fuck being Googley" (direct quote).
Frankly, if I could offer Larry Page once piece of advice it would be to take Tony out front of TGIF and fire him publicly -- all of this comes from Tony. Matt is just his hatchet man and fake cofounder.
There are a lot of great people at Nest and they deserve a better leader.
- brandon272 11y ago> I still wake up with something like PTSD from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell. This is so depressing. My gut tells me that absolutely no one should have to put up with this in an employment situation, but what are your options, other than to either "deal with it" or face the income and career insecurity that comes with quitting?
- outside1234 11y agoThe really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where people don't have that agility to move - we are really privileged in that we don't have to put up for this.
- njs12345 11y agoI would second that. Not in SV, in London, but I had a similar experience with an abusive work environment. Stayed way too long and some of my shares vested. Now they're worth some money on paper, but it wasn't worth it - my advice for anyone in a similar situation would be to get out as early as possible.
- VikingCoder 11y ago...which is why we should all be particularly angry when companies in Silicon Valley agree to not try to recruit each-other's employees. It doesn't just hold down wages, it makes it more likely some employee is going to suffer abuse because they don't know what options they have.
- fweespeech 11y agoYep. Fuck all those companies.
- dwightgunning 11y ago
- threeseed 11y agoThere are no other good options. You can complain but you will get forced out eventually for rocking the boat plus it may affect your reputation in the market place. You just need to do what everyone does. Grit your teeth, stay positive and plan your exit strategy to another company.
- st3v3r 11y agoAny company that would look down on you negatively for speaking out about this treatment is one that deserves to miss out on talented engineers.
- a3n 11y agoIndeed. It's a filter. Somewhat related, I've been considering putting my birth year (IGY) at the top of my resume. I'd rather someone silently bitbucket my resume than show up for a useless interview.
- pkaye 11y agoI had to deal with similar kind of shit in the past. Just not worth it unless you can cash out in a short time. Too much of a toll on your health. Better to be paid 5-10% less if necessary and do something I enjoy in comfort. However I think most who work at Nest could easily switch to new jobs given their credentials.
- CamperBob2 11y agoHowever I think most who work at Nest could easily switch to new jobs given their credentials. I dunno. "Yeah, you remember last January when you came home from work and your dog was frozen solid? That, uh... that was my code."
- st3v3r 11y agoWe could rise up and destroy those who do such things. I don't think anyone would shed a tear if this guy were to be kicked out of the company.
- freyr 11y ago> face the income and career insecurity that comes with quitting Get a firm job offer before you give your notice. You won't face any income uncertainty, and you'll have much more leverage while negotiating with potential new employers (unless let you it show that you're really desperate to leave your current gig).
- untog 11y ago> face the income and career insecurity that comes with quitting? Next to zero chance of that for a developer in Silicon Valley. But don't think it doesn't happen to people in minimum wage jobs everywhere.
- asdfologist 11y agoHonest question: how did someone with such an abusive management style lead his company to success? I'd think that his employees would just leave and go work elsewhere.
- dboreham 11y agoBecause behaving like this is moderately correlated with success. You don't have to be an asshole to succeed in business, but it can help.
- asdfologist 11y agoYes but I'm asking how. If you piss off your employees and they leave, how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company?
- w1ntermute 11y agoBecause not that many employees actually left, despite being pissed off. There was no way the Valley élite would let one of their own (Tony Fadell) have a hard fall, so at least a semi-successful exit was guaranteed from the beginning. The reason why Jobs and Fadell could be assholes and still succeed is because they were/are Jobs/Fadell. That doesn't mean you or I can act like assholes and still succeed. Perhaps we could be assholes after we succeed, but that's a highly unlikely hypothetical.
- aledalgrande 11y agoI agree. I've seen a*holes who were nobodies, and they went nowhere. This is because he is Tony Fadell.
- xenadu02 11y agoI'd also point out that Jobs was know to have become less of an asshole by the time he returned to Apple. Some people think it was reconnecting to his family that helped but who knows. You can demand greatness without being an asshole. You can tell someone the work they did isn't good enough without being an asshole. You can also truthfully review someone's bad code without being an asshole, for what it's worth. Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two.
- dclowd9901 11y agoAlso worked there, but not on hardware, and the crunch-ness was no better. It's also an org driven more by design and marketing than by QA and sound development and engineering. You always felt like you were failing and behind. It was a very discouraging experience. 1/5, would not recommend.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- threeseed 11y ago> Tony's ambition to be the next CEO of Apple Weird. He's only 9 years younger than Tim Cook and Jeff Williams (current COO) would be a great replacement should anything to Tim. Plus the Tony Fadell era culture at Apple has noticeably shifted under Tim. Not sure it would change back anytime soon.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jmorrow977 11y ago...and the Nest devices I recently purchased will be getting returned immediately.
- artursapek 11y agoSounds like Tony Fadell has lost sight of what's important in life.
- aledalgrande 11y agoThanks for sharing your experience. We, as a community, should point out these so-called "leaders" who build their fortune on the efforts of other people.
- a3n 11y agoAll leaders build their fortune on the efforts of other people, pretty much by definition.
- aledalgrande 11y agoWith the difference that true leaders work on making others the future leaders.
- abalone 11y agoDid anyone here work under him at Apple? I'm curious whether it was the same situation back then, or was better balanced by the rest of the management team, or if this is new thing.
- fiveguys94 11y agoYeah, I did. He did shout at Apple too, and people in his software teams (ie, non-iOS iPods) did work ridiculous hours 7 days a week for months before each iPod shipped. It was less of an issue because less things went wrong, though. IMO this was because Apple knew how to make hardware, generally, and hence things didn't go far off the rails - he got a lot of support from Apple. However, Tony didn't know the first thing about software and appeared to assume that it was something you threw new grads at because they'd hammer at it until it got through QA. Each year the teetering pile of crap grew higher and harder to ship... Now he's master of all he surveys, he's worked out that actually consistently delivering complex projects (which have rather more complex software than an iPod) is damn hard. Shouting is his reflex reaction when this doesn't go well.
- throwaway6497 11y agoFeel terrible reading this. Is rest of the Alphabet upper management completely oblivious to what is happening inside Nest? Don't they care? Isn't leadership about doing the right thing. If people are getting abused, Alphabet/Google better do something about it. I thought Alphabet took pride in the kind of leadership traits they support and want their leaders to embody. I am pretty sure a ton of current/ex-Googlers will be shell-shocked to hear stories like these. I think Nest employees should simply join core Google teams(search/ads/apps/chrome/new efforts) and put an end to their personal abuse. Larry and the rest of the leadership should really look into how Nest is run internally and fix things. This cannot be the norm and status-quo. This is anti-thesis to being Googley, and I personally know a ton of current and Ex Googlers who will be ashamed and hurt to hear this kind of abuse at Alphabet/Google. I am sorry you had to endure this. I am happy you are in a much better place. I am happy for your family now. [1 word edit for grammar]
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- outside1234 11y agoMy understanding (maybe wrong) was that the Alphabet changes made it really hard to move between the subsidiaries.
- brandmeyer 11y agoIt depends on the subsidiary. My little corner maintains close ties with Google's engineering tools, job ladder, promotion process, etc. for the express purpose of enabling easier hires/transfers from Google. So really it's up to the subsidiary as to how they choose to behave.
- outside1234 11y agoYou will probably not find it hard to believe that Nest made it sound impossible. :)
- EC1 11y ago>"Fuck being Googley" (direct quote). I'd probably get fired for bursting out laughing.
- Mithaldu 11y agoSecretly and relentlessly put googly eyes on everything he owns.
- jonesb6 11y agoThis was down voted but I think it adds to the discussion. Even in the "utopia" of SV (as some people seem to see it) boss can say something a mile over the line to Google executives and come out fine, but if an employee so much as puts a toe over.. it's almost like behind the hype we have the same bureaucracies and cultures as everyone else...
- l1ambda 11y agoTGIF?
- cmrdporcupine 11y agoGoogle's weekly all-hands
- dguaraglia 11y ago"Thank Goodness It's Friday". Although, interestingly enough, it's on Thursdays so people in APAC can take part.
- newman314 11y agoDo you think this contributed to the lackluster software upgrade/update cycle. To be clear，I'm not blaming you but it sure seems that Nest has had significant challenges rolling out software updates (I'm a Nest user)
- jimrandomh 11y agoWell, that bodes ill for Google Glass coming back from its "hibernation". It changes the interpretation of why they moved it to be under him: it looks like a punishment for their failure.
- ilvnvtoomuch 11y agoI hate to say this, but I felt the same way at "Accenture".
- PhantomGremlin 11y agoI really miss Pud at fuckedcompany.com. He was always railing against moronic companies like Accenture. He'd write something like "Accenture (pronounced ass-enter)". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucked_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucked_Company
- joering2 11y agoI second your opinion about Tony Fadell. Worked indirectly on few projects he managed. Disgusting human being always looking at profits and cutting corners. I recall one phone-meeting with engineer where he praised her for 10 minutes how great her programming skills were and how he "looks forward for many more years of working together". When the conversation was over, on the same breath, he told us (team of 5 in the meeting): "we need to replace her immediately - she's too expensive!". We looked at each other and felt really stupid. I don't think anyone of us ever been in such situation...
- toomanybeersies 11y agoJesus. Cost cutting with engineers never works well. Suits need to get out of the thinking that engineers/developers/designers are a liability to be minimised. It's not just suits either, it seems to be most non-engineers, I've met people looking for web designers before and they've tried to go with the most cut rate designer they can find, and then they wonder why their websites look like shit.
- fiveguys94 11y agoI never saw that at Apple. There were literally no budget restrictions on engineering as long as you got the job done. Was that back in pre-Apple days?
- aswanson 11y agoI get the mental image of a wannabe Steve Jobs loudmouth running rampant without the slightest hint that he's building a fucking thermostat and he's really not that consequential in the grand scheme of things.
- reality_czech 11y agoMaybe you just needed to leave the Nest?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- diesel_travis 11y agoEggzactly what I was thinking.
- dto2 11y agoSame, worst 1 year of my life working. And the problem isn't just Tony but a lot of his direct reports are really really bad. The real irony is hearing Tony say the company has a no asshole policy and that he wants Nest to not have assholes like Apple did. Fail. Fuck Nest and Larry.