4 ms·

Frankly, while technology has a part in this, I feel this media noise is cover for the much larger impact of globalization, cheap-labor driven free trade, TPP,

by gedy 11y ago

Frankly, while technology has a part in this, I feel this media noise is cover for the much larger impact of globalization, cheap-labor driven free trade, TPP, etc. that the banksters and elites push for.

dba7dba 11y ago
Nothing pretty much happens unless those in power want it done. It's not the fault of the geeks but the bankers/board-of-directors/ceos/majority-share-holders.
Pxtl 11y ago
Yep. Half the time, the robots are really Malaysians.
- creshal 11y ago
  Still, global manufacture is now efficient enough that a tiny part of the world can supply all the rest of it with all goods it needs. Neither China nor Malaysia manage full employment, and the rest of the world is even worse off. We really have to get past the "people would totally get a job if they weren't so damn lazy" mentality.
  - majewsky 11y ago
    Seconded. All that mentality does is create "bullshit jobs" (not my wording) designed to employ people without actually giving meaning to their lives. http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
    - creshal 11y ago
      Bullshit jobs are already the "best" case result here, the other option is rampant unemployment (see also, Europe).
      - Pxtl 11y ago
        No necessarily. Imagine a world where startups and artists didn't have to worry where their next meal came from because a bare-minimal livable income was guaranteed, and supplementing that wasn't punished with substantial clawbacks until you started making real dough. Obviously this depends on a post-scarcity economy, but it sounds like a better world than one full of assistant HR support analysts.
CyberDildonics 11y ago
The dirty banksters and elites helping to pull people in poor countries out of poverty. Maybe some people in poor countries speak english and are available thanks to the internet.
anovikov 11y ago
I was kind of thinking that all potential effect from globalization was in place about 5 years ago, if not more. Since then, wages in outsourcing-related industries in destination countries like China have skyrocketed making outsourcing a lot less profitable and relieving pressure on the American jobs in same areas. Take software outsourcing: what was the going rate for an Ukrainian developer 10 years ago and what it is now? The is no longer much of an arbitrage, American developer can compete easily just because of better English and working in the same time zone. And that is NOT because Ukraine became richer. It didn't. Nominal current-dollar GDP growth since 2003 in USA and Ukraine was about the same (about 1.60x). But the developer salaries which were 5% of American in 2003, at best, are now at least 25%. Which leaves very little sense in outsourcing (and yes Ukrainian developers live the same if not better than American ones these days, at least in a purely material sense - of course crime, environment etc. are much worse there) I think same is the case with most outsourced industries, except for the few where outsourcing has been so complete in past years that the American skills in these areas are no longer available.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

by gedy 11y ago

dba7dba 11y ago

Nothing pretty much happens unless those in power want it done. It's not the fault of the geeks but the bankers/board-of-directors/ceos/majority-share-holders.

Pxtl 11y ago

Yep. Half the time, the robots are really Malaysians.

creshal 11y ago
Still, global manufacture is now efficient enough that a tiny part of the world can supply all the rest of it with all goods it needs. Neither China nor Malaysia manage full employment, and the rest of the world is even worse off. We really have to get past the "people would totally get a job if they weren't so damn lazy" mentality.
- majewsky 11y ago
  Seconded. All that mentality does is create "bullshit jobs" (not my wording) designed to employ people without actually giving meaning to their lives. http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
  - creshal 11y ago
    Bullshit jobs are already the "best" case result here, the other option is rampant unemployment (see also, Europe).
    - Pxtl 11y ago
      No necessarily. Imagine a world where startups and artists didn't have to worry where their next meal came from because a bare-minimal livable income was guaranteed, and supplementing that wasn't punished with substantial clawbacks until you started making real dough. Obviously this depends on a post-scarcity economy, but it sounds like a better world than one full of assistant HR support analysts.

CyberDildonics 11y ago

The dirty banksters and elites helping to pull people in poor countries out of poverty. Maybe some people in poor countries speak english and are available thanks to the internet.

anovikov 11y ago

I was kind of thinking that all potential effect from globalization was in place about 5 years ago, if not more. Since then, wages in outsourcing-related industries in destination countries like China have skyrocketed making outsourcing a lot less profitable and relieving pressure on the American jobs in same areas. Take software outsourcing: what was the going rate for an Ukrainian developer 10 years ago and what it is now? The is no longer much of an arbitrage, American developer can compete easily just because of better English and working in the same time zone. And that is NOT because Ukraine became richer. It didn't. Nominal current-dollar GDP growth since 2003 in USA and Ukraine was about the same (about 1.60x). But the developer salaries which were 5% of American in 2003, at best, are now at least 25%. Which leaves very little sense in outsourcing (and yes Ukrainian developers live the same if not better than American ones these days, at least in a purely material sense - of course crime, environment etc. are much worse there) I think same is the case with most outsourced industries, except for the few where outsourcing has been so complete in past years that the American skills in these areas are no longer available.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]