7 ms·
Not only does fear of lawsuits prevent companies from disclosing no-hire reasons, it prevents them from even recording those reasons internally. If you get rej
by jzwinck 11y ago
Not only does fear of lawsuits prevent companies from disclosing no-hire reasons, it prevents them from even recording those reasons internally.
If you get rejected and don't know why, take heart: a year from now the company also won't know why. You can apply again as if it were Groundhog Day.
- joezydeco 11y agoJust pray you don't get the same people interviewing you again...
- jeffwass 11y agoWhy? From the other side of the desk, wouldn't you be impressed if you had a candidate come in for another interview, and they explicitly tell you that you had interviewed them previously and they understood their weaknesses at that time. And they're looking forward to show you just how much their chops have improved in the meantime, and then proceed to do just that?
- bcook 11y agoPlausible, but is it probable? I have no clue how blindly political the internal bureaucracy of the company is. Sure, the recruiter might be sane, but that is possibly only a small part of what gets me hired or rejected.
- joezydeco 11y agoNo. I'd be wondering "where (if at all) did this person work for the last year, and why are they so eager to come back here?" Most people get bonged and move on. If you weren't a fit 12 months ago, the odds (and personal bias, let's be honest) are really against you.
- whitegrape 11y agoIf I'm very proud of my company, I might be flattered that they too want to work at the same company so much. If my company's just a'ight, I'll think "why? and where have you been working in the meantime?" Additionally I might feel a little sorry for them, at first. If they actually do amaze me with how much they've improved, I would kick myself for failing to notice their potential the first time, and recommend them for immediate hire. I don't think I'd ever feel impressed with them. They'd deserve to feel impressed with themselves though, unless they totally blow it / show no improvement in which case I'm back to just feeling sad for them...
- loup-vaillant 11y agoHow can I understand my weaknesses at the last interview if you didn't tell me what they are in the first place? Surely you don't expect me to improve upon a total lack of feedback? I used to worry about blanket rejections. Not any more. They're not actionable, so I ignore them.
- oriolid 11y agoIt really, really depends on the company. A certain company has interviewed and rejected me three times, for the last two times the interviewers showed up with lists of questions from previous times.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoDid you get the questions right the second and third times?
- wheaties 11y agoWe keep a record of all coding exercises performed by people who want to come in for an interview. We reference it for those who reapply to see if there has been improvement. All of our interview questions are in a github repo and peer reviewd so you don't get those brain teaser useless questions. I wish we took notes during interviews. On well. We still remember candidates who apply multiple times.
- actsasbuffoon 11y agoIf people are graded based on improvement, does that mean you could play the long game and intentionally fail the first time, then win the award for "most improved" next year? To get this out of the way, here's my implementation for this year: int main() { return 1; } Let me know when you're ready for next year's submission.
- ThrustVectoring 11y agoIf you know what you're doing, it's difficult to look like you're trying to figure out what you're doing. If you had the acting skills to convincingly give off the impression that you're a novice programmer, you've also got the skills to convincingly give off a more directly useful impression.
- danieltillett 11y agoDo they improve? This is a fascinating data set to have. Other questions I have is do the clueless improve? Do the bright, but inexperienced improve? Can you tell what candidates to contact again after a year and invite back for a new interview?
- darksim905 11y agoFor someone who applies multiple times, is that seen as a negative or a positive?
- gaius 11y agoAre you in the UK? What are the DPA implications of this? Is it not PI?
- vonmoltke 11y ago> Not only does fear of lawsuits prevent companies from disclosing no-hire reasons, it prevents them from even recording those reasons internally. I don't get this mentality. A) I seem to be unaware of the rash of lawsuits befalling companies that provide feedback. I admit I just may be ignorant of them. B) It seems that not recording reasons actually makes the company more vulnerable. When you combine a "preponderance of evidence" legal standard with "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" it seems like it would be easy for a litigious candidate and a good lawyer to force a settlement or get a favorable jury ruling if the company cannot present hard evidence that said candidate was not hired because of X, Y, and Z non-protected reasons. In fact, that is the reason given in discussions about why it is so hard to fire people for going though the PIP process instead of just cutting them loose.
- readams 11y agoThe lawsuits are discrimination lawsuits. Candidates will allege racial, gender, or age discrimination. If you given them any sort of justification, plaintiff's council will go searching through your organization for anyone who works there already and fails to pass whatever justification you provided. Then, jurors are free to infer that the real reason why intentional bias and the justification was just a cover story. This is not theoretical. This is the playbook.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dclowd9901 11y agoExactly this. An attorney will practically start salivating if a despondent candidate comes to them with a story of not getting hired and the company telling them they weren't a good "culture fit."
- mhurron 11y agoAbsence of evidence is not evidence. Not having hiring records on anyone is not proof that a company is discriminating. > that is the reason given in discussions about why it is so hard to fire people for going though the PIP process instead of just cutting them loose That is a different case though. In the event of a firing, you have their work performance leading up to that event to take into account. If you have a black woman who has worked at a place for many years with favorable job reviews who is then suddenly let go after a new white manager is hired, they can present their work history at that company as an argument that they were let go for less than legitimate reasons.
- refurb 11y agoI don't think that's true for all companies. The big, multi-national company I work for keeps all candidate assessment form that have been filled out by the interviewer (even for summer interns). Of course we're trained beforehand to not put stuff in the form that could be construed as discriminatory based on protected classes. You have to keep in mind that if a candidate is rejected and comes back and says it was illegal discrimination, those forms are valuable evidence to show why the candidate was not selected. Get rid of the forms and it's basically your word against theirs in court. That said, I've also been told that no one every goes to the trouble to dig those up later on. Even for current employees. You could get a letter of reprimand put in your file and nobody would probably see it again (this comment came from HR).
- Buttons840 11y agoAre there laws that would allow me to get the interviewers notes?
- Alupis 11y agoYes, during discovery, for instance.
- Buttons840 11y agoWhat do you mean? I was thinking for example: I can request a copy from my employer of HR docs specific to me. Does this only apply because I'm employed, or does it extend to interview notes?
- dclowd9901 11y agoEverywhere I've been utilizes some manner of internal app that manages hiring. Computers sure as shit don't forget.