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That requires the government to acknowledge there is a problem and come up with a clear strategy to solve the problem. The BC Provincial Government is working

That requires the government to acknowledge there is a problem and come up with a clear strategy to solve the problem. The BC Provincial Government is working very hard to ignore it as a problem, where they won't even commission studies to generate data on how bad the problem is (or isn't). The federal government has also signaled their distancing from the Vancouver housing issue. Also, the real problem is foreign ownership. Canada has some of the loosest foreign ownership laws in the world, and provincial/federal governments do not punish foreign ownership with taxes or anything of the like. That means if you are making a lot of money in a corrupt country (China/Saudi Arabia), the Vancouver housing market is a great insurance policy. The result is you have entire neighbourhoods with no available properties, but are virtually empty (Coal Harbour), and new buildings are built small and shoddy (meant for investment, not livability). My wife and I make over 100k per year combined, and we will absolutely be leaving the city when we start a family. It all stems from the fact that the local government is willfully ignoring what can be compared to a cancer. It'll only get worse.

refurb 11y ago
Also, the real problem is foreign ownership. What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Suffice to say, Canadians are doing what American's did in the early 2000's. They are going into a crazy amount of debt to buy housing, which is only pushing prices up even higher. Some of the stats make Canada look even worse than the US did at it's peak[1]. [1]http://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/canada-housing-bubble.png http://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c...
- badloginagain 11y ago
  Unfortunately, the provincial/foreign governments refuse to even study the problem. So all we get is anecdotes and investigatory journalism[1], which do not make for good data points. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/the-real-estate-technique-fuelling-vancouvers-housing-market/article28634868/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/the-real-...
- vfusion 11y ago
  I heard from a real estate agent in Vancouver that 52% of real estate is owned by foreign investors, mainly buyers from Hong Kong. They leave the buildings empty. One building was flooded because the fire sprinklers went off and there was no one living there to spot and report the problem.
- kareemm 11y ago
  There actually is data. Ian Young, who writes the Hongkouver blog for the South China Morning Post, said this in a recent interview with Vancouver Magazine: > We’ve got peer-reviewed academic data from David Ley at UBC, who found what he called ‘an unusually decisive link’ between immigration and property prices in Vancouver, and this is going back over 25 years. We had Markus Moos and Andrejs Skaburskis who did another peer-reviewed piece of academic research that found that prices in Vancouver had become decoupled from local incomes by virtue of the fact that the home buying behavior of many recent immigrants was not tied to their local income. That cuts directly to the issue of foreign money.[1] A quick google for those authors will turn up their studies. 1- http://vanmag.com/city/the-van-mag-qa-ian-young/ http://vanmag.com/city/the-van-mag-qa-ian-young/
  - Jack000 11y ago
    Those studies are seriously flawed imo as their methodology is to filter on non-anglicized Chinese names and use that as a proxy for foreign money. That would describe a lot of people that aren't recent immigrants, like me. If anything, those studies show that ethinic-Chinese people are more predisposed to buying a house than renting, even when renting is much cheaper.
    - CountSessine 11y ago
      seriously flawed is an overstatement; there have been two studies done so far and while the researchers acknowledge the limitations of the method, in aggregate it is considered mostly sound by their peers. But I agree - we should have something a bit more conclusive than 'Chinese names'. But the whole point is that the current provincial government is actively hostile to requiring real estate agents to collect this information. So last names are all we have.
      - msie 11y ago
        One of the studies looked at the names of people purchasing in a pricy small neighbourhood. That hardly generalizes to all of vancouver.
- CountSessine 11y ago
  What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". It's pretty easy to find them. Google 'Andy Yan'; he's an economist at UBC who did the most recent study. Suffice to say, Canadians are doing what American's did in the early 2000's. They are going into a crazy amount of debt to buy housing, which is only pushing prices up even higher. Vancouverites are going into unsustainable debt, but at this point mostly for condos, which remain expensive but affordable. The detached house market is long past being affected by CHMC policy and borrowing rules; not even doctors and lawyers can afford the $5-6 million dollar homes that are such a big part of the market here, not even with leverage. This is part of what I try to tell people when they say that the Vancouver housing market is a 'bubble' - it isn't a bubble because it isn't being driven by leverage; it's being driven by regulatory differences in Canada and China; China has a punishing inheritance tax, and Canada has the most lax rules in the OECD for importing money and buying real estate. There simply is no 'bubble' here to burst. That's not to say that the situation isn't extremely unstable, but without leverage this simply isn't a 'bubble'.
  - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
    China has a punishing inheritance tax, really? China has no inheritance tax, it also lacks a property tax or even a capital gains tax. Libertarians would love it here if it weren't for the police state... Why Chinese buy abroad: to park money outside of China, to participate in real estate markets leased screwed up than their own (say what you want about Vancouver, it isn't anywhere near as bad as Beijing Shanghai Shenzhen), and to have an exit plan when they fall out of favor or things go to hell in China.
    - CountSessine 11y ago
      China has a punishing inheritance tax, really? China has no inheritance tax Sorry; proposed inheritance tax. http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-proposed-inheritance-tax-meets-widespread-disapproval-1413240 http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-proposed-inheritance-tax-meets... My point stands; Canadian interest rates could double and Vancouver house prices wouldn't budge; some Canadians would have their homes foreclosed on, but there's so much money in the market from China that homes here would still be unaffordable to people working in Canada and paying Canadian taxes. This just isn't a 'bubble'. China has no inheritance tax, it also lacks a property tax or even a capital gains tax. Libertarians would love it here if it weren't for the police state... Nice! This sounds like a pretty good way to game the system; earn all your money in a tax-less free-wheeling libertarian wonderland, cash out, then bring your millions to a place with no wealth tax! The new place will have lots of social services and lots of burdensome income taxes for the locals to pay for them, but you made your money and you don't have income to tax! Win! I should figure out how to get in on this.
- doublerebel 11y ago
  I have a lot of love for Vancouver, but the strange insistence on low salaries in an expensive housing market, with serious traffic and physical natural barriers to transportation, is a real problem. I know of several developers, whose advice and preference is to move out of the city (closer to skiing/biking/etc) and work remotely for a US company. There is plenty of evidence of the foreign property issue, and the willful ignorance of the government. Besides everything else posted, here's an academic case study: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-a-six-month-period-70-of-detached-homes-sold-in-vancouvers-west-side-went-to-mainland-china-buyers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-a-six-month-peri... http://www.slideshare.net/ayan604/ownership-patterns-of-single-family-homes-sales-on-the-west-side-neighborhoods-of-the-city-of-vancouver-a-case-study http://www.slideshare.net/ayan604/ownership-patterns-of-sing...
  - thinkdoge 11y ago
    work remotely? TN visa effectively lets you earn US wages.
    - allannienhuis 11y ago
      Vancouver (area) is still a wonderful place to live. Working remotely lets you do that while earning enough to enjoy it. :)

refurb 11y ago

Also, the real problem is foreign ownership. What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Suffice to say, Canadians are doing what American's did in the early 2000's. They are going into a crazy amount of debt to buy housing, which is only pushing prices up even higher. Some of the stats make Canada look even worse than the US did at it's peak[1]. [1]http://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/canada-housing-bubble.png http://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c...

badloginagain 11y ago
Unfortunately, the provincial/foreign governments refuse to even study the problem. So all we get is anecdotes and investigatory journalism[1], which do not make for good data points. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/the-real-estate-technique-fuelling-vancouvers-housing-market/article28634868/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/the-real-...
vfusion 11y ago
I heard from a real estate agent in Vancouver that 52% of real estate is owned by foreign investors, mainly buyers from Hong Kong. They leave the buildings empty. One building was flooded because the fire sprinklers went off and there was no one living there to spot and report the problem.
kareemm 11y ago
There actually is data. Ian Young, who writes the Hongkouver blog for the South China Morning Post, said this in a recent interview with Vancouver Magazine: > We’ve got peer-reviewed academic data from David Ley at UBC, who found what he called ‘an unusually decisive link’ between immigration and property prices in Vancouver, and this is going back over 25 years. We had Markus Moos and Andrejs Skaburskis who did another peer-reviewed piece of academic research that found that prices in Vancouver had become decoupled from local incomes by virtue of the fact that the home buying behavior of many recent immigrants was not tied to their local income. That cuts directly to the issue of foreign money.[1] A quick google for those authors will turn up their studies. 1- http://vanmag.com/city/the-van-mag-qa-ian-young/ http://vanmag.com/city/the-van-mag-qa-ian-young/
- Jack000 11y ago
  Those studies are seriously flawed imo as their methodology is to filter on non-anglicized Chinese names and use that as a proxy for foreign money. That would describe a lot of people that aren't recent immigrants, like me. If anything, those studies show that ethinic-Chinese people are more predisposed to buying a house than renting, even when renting is much cheaper.
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    seriously flawed is an overstatement; there have been two studies done so far and while the researchers acknowledge the limitations of the method, in aggregate it is considered mostly sound by their peers. But I agree - we should have something a bit more conclusive than 'Chinese names'. But the whole point is that the current provincial government is actively hostile to requiring real estate agents to collect this information. So last names are all we have.
    - msie 11y ago
      One of the studies looked at the names of people purchasing in a pricy small neighbourhood. That hardly generalizes to all of vancouver.
CountSessine 11y ago
What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". It's pretty easy to find them. Google 'Andy Yan'; he's an economist at UBC who did the most recent study. Suffice to say, Canadians are doing what American's did in the early 2000's. They are going into a crazy amount of debt to buy housing, which is only pushing prices up even higher. Vancouverites are going into unsustainable debt, but at this point mostly for condos, which remain expensive but affordable. The detached house market is long past being affected by CHMC policy and borrowing rules; not even doctors and lawyers can afford the $5-6 million dollar homes that are such a big part of the market here, not even with leverage. This is part of what I try to tell people when they say that the Vancouver housing market is a 'bubble' - it isn't a bubble because it isn't being driven by leverage; it's being driven by regulatory differences in Canada and China; China has a punishing inheritance tax, and Canada has the most lax rules in the OECD for importing money and buying real estate. There simply is no 'bubble' here to burst. That's not to say that the situation isn't extremely unstable, but without leverage this simply isn't a 'bubble'.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  China has a punishing inheritance tax, really? China has no inheritance tax, it also lacks a property tax or even a capital gains tax. Libertarians would love it here if it weren't for the police state... Why Chinese buy abroad: to park money outside of China, to participate in real estate markets leased screwed up than their own (say what you want about Vancouver, it isn't anywhere near as bad as Beijing Shanghai Shenzhen), and to have an exit plan when they fall out of favor or things go to hell in China.
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    China has a punishing inheritance tax, really? China has no inheritance tax Sorry; proposed inheritance tax. http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-proposed-inheritance-tax-meets-widespread-disapproval-1413240 http://www.ibtimes.com/chinas-proposed-inheritance-tax-meets... My point stands; Canadian interest rates could double and Vancouver house prices wouldn't budge; some Canadians would have their homes foreclosed on, but there's so much money in the market from China that homes here would still be unaffordable to people working in Canada and paying Canadian taxes. This just isn't a 'bubble'. China has no inheritance tax, it also lacks a property tax or even a capital gains tax. Libertarians would love it here if it weren't for the police state... Nice! This sounds like a pretty good way to game the system; earn all your money in a tax-less free-wheeling libertarian wonderland, cash out, then bring your millions to a place with no wealth tax! The new place will have lots of social services and lots of burdensome income taxes for the locals to pay for them, but you made your money and you don't have income to tax! Win! I should figure out how to get in on this.
doublerebel 11y ago
I have a lot of love for Vancouver, but the strange insistence on low salaries in an expensive housing market, with serious traffic and physical natural barriers to transportation, is a real problem. I know of several developers, whose advice and preference is to move out of the city (closer to skiing/biking/etc) and work remotely for a US company. There is plenty of evidence of the foreign property issue, and the willful ignorance of the government. Besides everything else posted, here's an academic case study: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-a-six-month-period-70-of-detached-homes-sold-in-vancouvers-west-side-went-to-mainland-china-buyers http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-a-six-month-peri... http://www.slideshare.net/ayan604/ownership-patterns-of-single-family-homes-sales-on-the-west-side-neighborhoods-of-the-city-of-vancouver-a-case-study http://www.slideshare.net/ayan604/ownership-patterns-of-sing...
- thinkdoge 11y ago
  work remotely? TN visa effectively lets you earn US wages.
  - allannienhuis 11y ago
    Vancouver (area) is still a wonderful place to live. Working remotely lets you do that while earning enough to enjoy it. :)