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I don't know if I'm gifted (I score 125 at some IQ test on abstraction when applying at a company, but still IQ is not always a correct to measure intelligence,

by jokoon 11y ago

I don't know if I'm gifted (I score 125 at some IQ test on abstraction when applying at a company, but still IQ is not always a correct to measure intelligence, so take this with a grain of salt), but my psychiatrist tells me I'm intelligent (he might say this to agree with me, maybe he doesn't think so and it's for another goal). Yet I'm unemployed, 30 year old, and can't manage to get hired or to do work that is given to me. I don't want to tell people I'm just a special snowflake or something of that matter (since many people easily come down on you for it when they can), but I always hated school because I felt it was formatting me, and not stimulating me. I recently went into some school program for web programming, I hated it and failed it, yet I was considered to know things already. I'm a little tired of people telling me it's a personality problem, to be frank. In my view, school is not meritocratic, because its aim is to be efficient and teach important basics to the most people, which politically is a good thing. But is it for everyone? No, and people who are intelligent and care about what the learn actually have more chances to fail, simply because learning program are tailored to be taught easily. I remember meeting a jury for some project at this school program, and they were pretty judgmental towards my behavior or my opinions when they were asking me specific questions about me. I think Good Will Hunting precisely describes this problem. Society doesn't know how to pull people up according to their capabilities, because not everything is known about psychology, but also because society often tends to perpetuates its error because of social models which are built on belief. I think there is no real opportunities for people who might have better capabilities than other. Maybe it should be treated as a handicap or special need, but it's true that politically it's hard to explain such thing when there already is a debate about inequality.

ThrustVectoring 11y ago
Schools don't have teaching the basics as their primary purpose. They aren't even there for facilitating learning in general - if they were, they'd look a hell of a lot different. For one thing, they'd drop basically all the structure they provide and replace it with independent study and tutoring. No, the primary purpose of schools is to teach children how to be controlled by authority figures. As a side bonus, it watches over children for a large period of time. Controlling parents insist on the state paying for what's essentially day-care, so that's what we get. I have no clue how to fix things. Best advice I have is to opt out. "Homeschool" your children, don't force them into learning anything in particular, and pay attention to what their actual goddamn needs are.
bonesmoses 11y ago
> Yet I'm unemployed, 30 year old, and can't manage to get hired or to do work that is given to me. IQ and that kind of intelligence is only really a predictor of how quickly you are capable of learning. Unfortunately, it means very little regarding motivation, ambition, or any of the other traits generally associated with being successful. It's difficult to derive success entirely from pure intelligence, especially with cognitive biases humans are prone to accumulate through experience as they mature. Most people would say that's why we have society: to prevent misapplied potential in various areas, and to competently leverage mental resources such that everyone can benefit. But people, being imperfect, fuck it up along the way, so we all have our cross to bear, and society becomes shaped by its malignancies. Talk to any cultural anthropologist. :)
rustynails 11y ago
I'd like to tell you about my most gifted friend. He is my classic definition of genius. He is a particularly lovely human being, handsome, tall and can do most intellectual tasks exceptionally well (eg. Chemistry, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, software engineering, etc). He matches the best I've seen in any of those fields (and I've been involved in complex systems and software for decades). So, what does he do for a living? Odd jobs. He has held one steady job in the decades I've known him. This is because he has poor social skills (although I've tried to help him learn the ropes of understanding people) and because he finds accepting other people's mediocrity frustrating as he politely tells them their errors - and conversely, they resent his cleverness. I was lucky enough to work with someone similar to my friend about 10 years ago. As his boss, I sat down with him and basically said "you are very clever but you are also ignorant. You change external interfaces that drive significant changes to the rest of the system. You must stop it for the sake of the project". He exploded and told me to "f* myself" in front of the project team of ~100 to hear. Two hours later, he apologised and thanked me for my honesty and wisdom (translation: courage to tackle the wild brumby). When I saw him a few years ago, he was a different person. He thanked me for my kindness and patience back then, which meant a lot to me. To wrap it all up: some people truly March to the beat of their own drum. I thrive on these people. Good luck. I hope you find your groove. No one else will find it for you, unfortunately.
- jokoon 11y ago
  > I thrive on these people. What do you mean ? You mean you manage them ? I agree that it must be quite delicate. In recent years I've started to understand what politics, public opinion and management really are about. I guess that's something I'd tell a math genius to get interested in, which is the art of compromise, negotiation and game theory, which can apply to take care of twenty five-years-old kids. > To wrap it all up: some people truly March to the beat of their own drum. Well people who have higher intelligence feel and know they are smarter, and since they are less people who are as smart as them to contradict them, nobody really can question their thoughts. > Good luck. I hope you find your groove. Thank you, that's truly heartwarming to hear it. > No one else will find it for you, unfortunately. I guess one day psychology and management will evolve and gain traction to improve society, I'm not so desperate about the future.
throwaway_65536 11y ago
I'm in similar situation. I finished MA and never really had to work hard for anything. Had IQ at around 130. Probably less now cause I had not done anything challenging for decade. I hate my job, have no achievments whatosever and I balance on doing bare minimum not to get fired. Changed job 4 times and it's definitely me. That's despite the fact that I was always going to be a programmer since I was 10, and I loved programming. I'm lazy as hell and I'm astonished every day they won't fire me. Any dreams of success in mine choosen callign are long past. I also had huge problems with social interactions, married first girl that could look past it (she has similar problems). It wasn't a good decision. My wife has even bigger problems with employement, but she declines to agree it's her fault (she changes job every year and it's always "them"). We are codependent and use each other not to be alone. We hurt each other a lot. I don't think it's love, but then I find love to be hard to define (I mostly feel "I should be feeling this" instead of actually feeling this, not only towards her). I should really leave her, cause she isn't happy with me (nor am I with her), but she has her life wasted, in some party because of me, and she depends on me at least economicaly at this point. Or maybe it's rationalization because it's more convenient to continue this. I'm addicted to internet and gaming, and I'm well aware of the fact that I'm wasting my life. I just don't care. No right to complain really, I had it better than most people, and it's entirely my fault I'm wasting it all. And yet I do, because nothing worthwhile seems achievable and vice-versa. BTW I know I sound arrogant and selfish, that's because I am. I wondered many times if maybe I'm just stupid (that would explain a lot). In the end it doesn't really matter, results matter and I don't have them. I probably could get depression diagnosed, but I don't want to cure it even if it's true, because it would mean I have to actually do sth. So my best diagnosis is "chronic laziness".
- jokoon 11y ago
  I'm exactly in the same type of relationship problem, except she is the one working. I'm currently trying a behavioral cognitive therapy, so far it's working a little better than whatever else I tried with psychiatrists. What is making me hold to life, is to try to do some stuff I know how to do: programming, etc at a minimal pace and scale (I have this small video game project I'm trying to do). Even though it won't solve my problems (or at least immediately), I still believe in what I do or can do, and it prevents me from giving up everything. If you have skills and like to do certain things or if you are attracted to certain things, go do them, it's not a waste of your time, even if the task seems daunting or hard. In a way, you can reason it as being some kind of possible contribution to society, and for me that's how I maintain a minimal amount of self-esteem.

by jokoon 11y ago

ThrustVectoring 11y ago

Schools don't have teaching the basics as their primary purpose. They aren't even there for facilitating learning in general - if they were, they'd look a hell of a lot different. For one thing, they'd drop basically all the structure they provide and replace it with independent study and tutoring. No, the primary purpose of schools is to teach children how to be controlled by authority figures. As a side bonus, it watches over children for a large period of time. Controlling parents insist on the state paying for what's essentially day-care, so that's what we get. I have no clue how to fix things. Best advice I have is to opt out. "Homeschool" your children, don't force them into learning anything in particular, and pay attention to what their actual goddamn needs are.

bonesmoses 11y ago

> Yet I'm unemployed, 30 year old, and can't manage to get hired or to do work that is given to me. IQ and that kind of intelligence is only really a predictor of how quickly you are capable of learning. Unfortunately, it means very little regarding motivation, ambition, or any of the other traits generally associated with being successful. It's difficult to derive success entirely from pure intelligence, especially with cognitive biases humans are prone to accumulate through experience as they mature. Most people would say that's why we have society: to prevent misapplied potential in various areas, and to competently leverage mental resources such that everyone can benefit. But people, being imperfect, fuck it up along the way, so we all have our cross to bear, and society becomes shaped by its malignancies. Talk to any cultural anthropologist. :)

rustynails 11y ago

I'd like to tell you about my most gifted friend. He is my classic definition of genius. He is a particularly lovely human being, handsome, tall and can do most intellectual tasks exceptionally well (eg. Chemistry, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, software engineering, etc). He matches the best I've seen in any of those fields (and I've been involved in complex systems and software for decades). So, what does he do for a living? Odd jobs. He has held one steady job in the decades I've known him. This is because he has poor social skills (although I've tried to help him learn the ropes of understanding people) and because he finds accepting other people's mediocrity frustrating as he politely tells them their errors - and conversely, they resent his cleverness. I was lucky enough to work with someone similar to my friend about 10 years ago. As his boss, I sat down with him and basically said "you are very clever but you are also ignorant. You change external interfaces that drive significant changes to the rest of the system. You must stop it for the sake of the project". He exploded and told me to "f* myself" in front of the project team of ~100 to hear. Two hours later, he apologised and thanked me for my honesty and wisdom (translation: courage to tackle the wild brumby). When I saw him a few years ago, he was a different person. He thanked me for my kindness and patience back then, which meant a lot to me. To wrap it all up: some people truly March to the beat of their own drum. I thrive on these people. Good luck. I hope you find your groove. No one else will find it for you, unfortunately.

jokoon 11y ago
> I thrive on these people. What do you mean ? You mean you manage them ? I agree that it must be quite delicate. In recent years I've started to understand what politics, public opinion and management really are about. I guess that's something I'd tell a math genius to get interested in, which is the art of compromise, negotiation and game theory, which can apply to take care of twenty five-years-old kids. > To wrap it all up: some people truly March to the beat of their own drum. Well people who have higher intelligence feel and know they are smarter, and since they are less people who are as smart as them to contradict them, nobody really can question their thoughts. > Good luck. I hope you find your groove. Thank you, that's truly heartwarming to hear it. > No one else will find it for you, unfortunately. I guess one day psychology and management will evolve and gain traction to improve society, I'm not so desperate about the future.

throwaway_65536 11y ago

I'm in similar situation. I finished MA and never really had to work hard for anything. Had IQ at around 130. Probably less now cause I had not done anything challenging for decade. I hate my job, have no achievments whatosever and I balance on doing bare minimum not to get fired. Changed job 4 times and it's definitely me. That's despite the fact that I was always going to be a programmer since I was 10, and I loved programming. I'm lazy as hell and I'm astonished every day they won't fire me. Any dreams of success in mine choosen callign are long past. I also had huge problems with social interactions, married first girl that could look past it (she has similar problems). It wasn't a good decision. My wife has even bigger problems with employement, but she declines to agree it's her fault (she changes job every year and it's always "them"). We are codependent and use each other not to be alone. We hurt each other a lot. I don't think it's love, but then I find love to be hard to define (I mostly feel "I should be feeling this" instead of actually feeling this, not only towards her). I should really leave her, cause she isn't happy with me (nor am I with her), but she has her life wasted, in some party because of me, and she depends on me at least economicaly at this point. Or maybe it's rationalization because it's more convenient to continue this. I'm addicted to internet and gaming, and I'm well aware of the fact that I'm wasting my life. I just don't care. No right to complain really, I had it better than most people, and it's entirely my fault I'm wasting it all. And yet I do, because nothing worthwhile seems achievable and vice-versa. BTW I know I sound arrogant and selfish, that's because I am. I wondered many times if maybe I'm just stupid (that would explain a lot). In the end it doesn't really matter, results matter and I don't have them. I probably could get depression diagnosed, but I don't want to cure it even if it's true, because it would mean I have to actually do sth. So my best diagnosis is "chronic laziness".

jokoon 11y ago
I'm exactly in the same type of relationship problem, except she is the one working. I'm currently trying a behavioral cognitive therapy, so far it's working a little better than whatever else I tried with psychiatrists. What is making me hold to life, is to try to do some stuff I know how to do: programming, etc at a minimal pace and scale (I have this small video game project I'm trying to do). Even though it won't solve my problems (or at least immediately), I still believe in what I do or can do, and it prevents me from giving up everything. If you have skills and like to do certain things or if you are attracted to certain things, go do them, it's not a waste of your time, even if the task seems daunting or hard. In a way, you can reason it as being some kind of possible contribution to society, and for me that's how I maintain a minimal amount of self-esteem.