5 ms·

I would guess language and general cultural barriers, spending much time in SEAsia, many of the (sometimes trivial) things western people expect from services a

by erkkie 11y ago

I would guess language and general cultural barriers, spending much time in SEAsia, many of the (sometimes trivial) things western people expect from services are really hard for locals to "get" without outside (read western) guidance. Just the tiniest bit of branding/marketing often sets someone miles apart from another otherwise equal local competitor.

lazaroclapp 11y ago
> spending much time in SEAsia, many of the (sometimes trivial) things western people expect from services are really hard for locals to "get" without outside (read western) guidance. Any examples? Just curious...
- IshKebab 11y ago
  Well, having used Alibaba I would say good English and a website that doesn't look like a MySpace page would go 90% of the way.
  - GFischer 11y ago
    Interestingly, there are some cultural differences in web design, Japanese for example expect a cluttered website: http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/big-in-japan-web-design-in-the-land-of-the-rising-sun--cms-23290 http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/big-in-japan-web-desi... https://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-different/ https://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-differe... http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/why-is-chinese-web-design-so-bad http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/why-is-chinese-web-design-so-b...
    - IshKebab 11y ago
      Unconvincing. English people would have expected a cluttered website in the 90s (remember Yahoo?). I think Japan is just behind the times.
  - erkkie 11y ago
    Yes, exactly, same applies for many local businesses (shops, restaurants, service providers) not just Alibaba. Hell, a decent sized private hospital here has a nonfunctional website (like not just bad but actually returning 404's).
- erkkie 11y ago
  The sibling comment about websites was spot on. Another good example is the real-estate rental market. Many places lack furnishing and lose lots of business over similar competitors, and I mean the types of basics a months rent would cover. I was never able to figure out if this was due to lack of liquid funds (even though it would pay for itself fast) or something cultural.
thirdsun 11y ago
Also, even if they get all those things right, don't underestimate the complexity of simply shipping goods to other continents. We're manufacturing, selling and shipping shoes from europe and while it's easy within the EU it's hell once you try to reach customers in other continents. Just handling returns (which are to be expected frequently with shoes and their sizing) simply renders the option too complicated and expensive for small companies.
- roel_v 11y ago
  Meh, I buy stuff from alibaba from europe, cheap stuff like e15 worth of usb connectors. They seem to manage just fine shipping, for free too, thanks to subsidized china mail. For those low amounts they don't even bother with returns; most are so afraid of bad ratings/open disputes that they'll ship another batch the moment you voice a complaint. Not saying I disagree with you I guess, it's also about westerners finding alibaba a bit too exotic (and dangerous), but once you get used to the asian style shopping, it's fine.
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    Right - but consider that you are an outlier. I've spent 15 years buying stuff off amazon.com (coming from California), and have recently moved to Singapore. The closest version of Amazon (with *insanely good local shipping - sometimes same day by bike courier) is http://www.qoo10.sg http://www.qoo10.sg. I've been fully satisfied with prices, and delivery on everything there - but, it's still a bit of a culture shock for your average western shopper. We'll see if I still feel the same way a year from now - but (even ignoring the discovery issue) I can imagine how having Amazon provide an interface for my purchases would have made this way more seamless.
  - thirdsun 11y ago
    I'm talking from the perspective of the seller and of course I can only talk about our experience. Again, shoes (high priced too) are probably very different from cheap USB connectors. And having to ship a pair of 200,- € shoes back and forth from europe to the USA until the customers found the correct size is not worth the effort in our opinion. It's hard to find a proper return service - you can't leave that task to the customer; if proper export documents are missing we have to collect the return package from the customs. It's a mess. And if you ship larger amounts you have to register the export with the customs office, which is another complicated process, filling endless forms in some mandatory Java applet system. Amazon getting rid of all of this for a reasonable price would be very welcome.

by erkkie 11y ago

lazaroclapp 11y ago

> spending much time in SEAsia, many of the (sometimes trivial) things western people expect from services are really hard for locals to "get" without outside (read western) guidance. Any examples? Just curious...

IshKebab 11y ago
Well, having used Alibaba I would say good English and a website that doesn't look like a MySpace page would go 90% of the way.
- GFischer 11y ago
  Interestingly, there are some cultural differences in web design, Japanese for example expect a cluttered website: http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/big-in-japan-web-design-in-the-land-of-the-rising-sun--cms-23290 http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/big-in-japan-web-desi... https://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-different/ https://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-differe... http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/why-is-chinese-web-design-so-bad http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/why-is-chinese-web-design-so-b...
  - IshKebab 11y ago
    Unconvincing. English people would have expected a cluttered website in the 90s (remember Yahoo?). I think Japan is just behind the times.
- erkkie 11y ago
  Yes, exactly, same applies for many local businesses (shops, restaurants, service providers) not just Alibaba. Hell, a decent sized private hospital here has a nonfunctional website (like not just bad but actually returning 404's).
erkkie 11y ago
The sibling comment about websites was spot on. Another good example is the real-estate rental market. Many places lack furnishing and lose lots of business over similar competitors, and I mean the types of basics a months rent would cover. I was never able to figure out if this was due to lack of liquid funds (even though it would pay for itself fast) or something cultural.

thirdsun 11y ago

Also, even if they get all those things right, don't underestimate the complexity of simply shipping goods to other continents. We're manufacturing, selling and shipping shoes from europe and while it's easy within the EU it's hell once you try to reach customers in other continents. Just handling returns (which are to be expected frequently with shoes and their sizing) simply renders the option too complicated and expensive for small companies.

roel_v 11y ago
Meh, I buy stuff from alibaba from europe, cheap stuff like e15 worth of usb connectors. They seem to manage just fine shipping, for free too, thanks to subsidized china mail. For those low amounts they don't even bother with returns; most are so afraid of bad ratings/open disputes that they'll ship another batch the moment you voice a complaint. Not saying I disagree with you I guess, it's also about westerners finding alibaba a bit too exotic (and dangerous), but once you get used to the asian style shopping, it's fine.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  Right - but consider that you are an outlier. I've spent 15 years buying stuff off amazon.com (coming from California), and have recently moved to Singapore. The closest version of Amazon (with *insanely good local shipping - sometimes same day by bike courier) is http://www.qoo10.sg http://www.qoo10.sg. I've been fully satisfied with prices, and delivery on everything there - but, it's still a bit of a culture shock for your average western shopper. We'll see if I still feel the same way a year from now - but (even ignoring the discovery issue) I can imagine how having Amazon provide an interface for my purchases would have made this way more seamless.
- thirdsun 11y ago
  I'm talking from the perspective of the seller and of course I can only talk about our experience. Again, shoes (high priced too) are probably very different from cheap USB connectors. And having to ship a pair of 200,- € shoes back and forth from europe to the USA until the customers found the correct size is not worth the effort in our opinion. It's hard to find a proper return service - you can't leave that task to the customer; if proper export documents are missing we have to collect the return package from the customs. It's a mess. And if you ship larger amounts you have to register the export with the customs office, which is another complicated process, filling endless forms in some mandatory Java applet system. Amazon getting rid of all of this for a reasonable price would be very welcome.