5 ms·

Good update on the Singaporean scene. One measure I wish that was included was salaries; are the averages getting better vis-a-vis NYC or the Bay Area? Money

Good update on the Singaporean scene. One measure I wish that was included was salaries; are the averages getting better vis-a-vis NYC or the Bay Area? Money talks, as they say.

p4wnc6 11y ago
This is important. I had several interviews with some Singaporean companies and salary was always the limiting factor. It was absolutely nowhere close to what similar positions would pay in major US cities, let alone New York or SF. Yet cost of living in Singapore is fairly high. While there are some tax advantages, you also have to weigh the risks of such a long-distance relocation and visa issues, as well as the significant cultural differences that you have to embrace to live functionally in Singapore. If anything, it ought to require a significant salary premium to attract talented engineers to bear some of these risks to relocate to Singapore. One of my specific experiences was with Standard Chartered, since they are one of the largest commercial users of Haskell and have a large Haskell engineering presence in Singapore. Boy, that was disappointing. Basically they think they can use the fact that you get to work with Haskell (even though it is line of business bank software and involves a poorly built custom Haskell compiler) and that it's located in Singapore as means to reduce salary when they import a worker. If it's that bad with a wealthy investment bank, it's hard to believe it's reached a healthy salary situation there across the engineering spectrum. But I am sure there are the occasional gems there which do offer fair wage for the risks being taken by employees.
- maaku 11y ago
  They don't use ghc?
- yomly 11y ago
  >"that it's located in Singapore as means to reduce salary when they import a worker." Having lived and worked there (and having a Singaporean father) this mentality does not surprise me at all. The national propaganda machine indoctrinates their citizens to believe it is the greatest most successful place in the world, and a curious kind of arrogance arises from it. This is not to say that other nations are not guilty of these practices, but I certainly notice it when I deal with Singaporeans
- fieryeagle 11y ago
  That's both pleasant and disappointing to hear. Believe me, if they offer you S$90k base, that's already considered a fat salary.
markplindsay 11y ago
Absolutely. Singapore is great, and I've always been interested in living there, but the pay for software developers is too low. The cost of living is about the same for (non-PR, non-Malaysian) foreigners as it is in NYC. From my casual/infrequent research, salaries seem to be about half of what a developer in NYC would make. The income tax rate is lower, but that doesn't help much when you're still paying NYC prices for an apartment.
- hhandoko 11y ago
  Just to add, you might not benefit from the lower income tax in Singapore when migrating from the US due to the Double Tax Agreements between Singapore and US (i.e. you'd have to pay for the tax difference between the Singapore and US tax).
  - nopzor 11y ago
    No US tax at all, on the first USD 100K-ish of income earned while living in Singapore. At least that was the case a few years ago.

Good update on the Singaporean scene. One measure I wish that was included was salaries; are the averages getting better vis-a-vis NYC or the Bay Area? Money talks, as they say.

p4wnc6 11y ago

This is important. I had several interviews with some Singaporean companies and salary was always the limiting factor. It was absolutely nowhere close to what similar positions would pay in major US cities, let alone New York or SF. Yet cost of living in Singapore is fairly high. While there are some tax advantages, you also have to weigh the risks of such a long-distance relocation and visa issues, as well as the significant cultural differences that you have to embrace to live functionally in Singapore. If anything, it ought to require a significant salary premium to attract talented engineers to bear some of these risks to relocate to Singapore. One of my specific experiences was with Standard Chartered, since they are one of the largest commercial users of Haskell and have a large Haskell engineering presence in Singapore. Boy, that was disappointing. Basically they think they can use the fact that you get to work with Haskell (even though it is line of business bank software and involves a poorly built custom Haskell compiler) and that it's located in Singapore as means to reduce salary when they import a worker. If it's that bad with a wealthy investment bank, it's hard to believe it's reached a healthy salary situation there across the engineering spectrum. But I am sure there are the occasional gems there which do offer fair wage for the risks being taken by employees.

maaku 11y ago
They don't use ghc?
yomly 11y ago
>"that it's located in Singapore as means to reduce salary when they import a worker." Having lived and worked there (and having a Singaporean father) this mentality does not surprise me at all. The national propaganda machine indoctrinates their citizens to believe it is the greatest most successful place in the world, and a curious kind of arrogance arises from it. This is not to say that other nations are not guilty of these practices, but I certainly notice it when I deal with Singaporeans
fieryeagle 11y ago
That's both pleasant and disappointing to hear. Believe me, if they offer you S$90k base, that's already considered a fat salary.

markplindsay 11y ago

Absolutely. Singapore is great, and I've always been interested in living there, but the pay for software developers is too low. The cost of living is about the same for (non-PR, non-Malaysian) foreigners as it is in NYC. From my casual/infrequent research, salaries seem to be about half of what a developer in NYC would make. The income tax rate is lower, but that doesn't help much when you're still paying NYC prices for an apartment.

hhandoko 11y ago
Just to add, you might not benefit from the lower income tax in Singapore when migrating from the US due to the Double Tax Agreements between Singapore and US (i.e. you'd have to pay for the tax difference between the Singapore and US tax).
- nopzor 11y ago
  No US tax at all, on the first USD 100K-ish of income earned while living in Singapore. At least that was the case a few years ago.