6 ms·

I post a lot of dumb comments on HN, mostly because I find too many people take things too seriously here. But anxiety is something that I can very much relate

I post a lot of dumb comments on HN, mostly because I find too many people take things too seriously here. But anxiety is something that I can very much relate to being a work from home developer. I'm still learning the best ways to cope/treat, but I can't say enough about getting enough exercise. I definitely don't do it enough now, but when I do there's an unmistakable decrease in my anxiety level the following day. But I'm talking like running, or something else that really gets me exhausted; not just a walk around the block. I'm a skinny guy too, which for me is another excuse to not have to exercise; which I think is not uncommon amongst developers.

such_a_casual 11y ago
Not to start a flame war with you, but in the hope that maybe I can make this panacea a little less popular I want to get something off my chest. Every time someone has a problem with mental health, whether it's depression, anxiety, drug withdrawal, etc the answer from the audience is always exercise. I'm only one data point, but I've exercised more days of my life than not and have observed absolutely no difference in mental health between the me that exercises and the me that doesn't. What about athletes: students-athletes, NBA players, olympians. Do they show a significantly lower rate of mental health issues? This argument has been floating around in my head for a while. The reason I think this suggestion is harmful is because it is the most vocal and popular, and yet excludes anyone who already exercises. Who is recommending this? My hypothesis is people who only exercise every once in a while and so they get a huge hit of endorphins and think, "Man if I did this every day I would feel great." Maybe, some people with mental health issues use exercise as an escape and are really recommending it for its temporary relief. But I'm just in denial about the majority of people being people who didn't exercise, were miserable/anxious/whatever, started exercising and now they're happy/normal/perfect. Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments here. For those of you who have been saved by exercise, I'm envious. I would really just like to see more answers than this instead of seeing it as the go to answer. It makes the assumption that people who have mental health issues don't exercise.
- andrewvc 11y ago
  If I had to guess people at the highest level of any profession are more likely to have mental issues. I wouldn't say that looking at the mood of Olympic weight lifters would say a lot about the general population's response to exercise.
  - such_a_casual 11y ago
    I completely concede to that. I, admittedly, was just reaching for the most obvious example of people who exercise.
- projectileboy 11y ago
  I think you hear people recommend exercise because many of us in the tech sector don't get enough exercise, and for many it can make a huge difference. After I started jogging regularly a year ago, my depression lessened dramatically. But of course, everybody's different, so your mileage may vary.
  - such_a_casual 11y ago
    My experiences with this are mostly not tech related. It seems to come up everywhere. I'm glad that you found something that worked for you.
    - Malician 11y ago
      I really emphasize with what you're saying here. As a kid, I remembering hearing - "drink water" all the time. It never helped. I never once felt better drinking water than not. But no-one cared. "I'm already drinking water." "It doesn't help." It was the panacea to a sea of unrelated problems and no-one was interested in actually checking up on whether it worked. Now, I'm at a different place in my life, and the water is immensely helpful. Exercise really helps - on average, statistically, it's one of the most effective interventions, and if you're any sort of health care provider you immediately notice the difference in a whole group of patients after they exercise vs a day they don't. And a lot of times individuals cannot notice the difference from inside, even if their behavior is a lot more upbeat. But for someone people who need something entirely different, it might not help for that particular issue.
spangry 11y ago
Anxiety/Panic disorder suffer here too. I've found the same: exercise is definitely helpful, but unfortunately not sufficient in my case. If you want to try in addition: I've found mindfulness meditation to be extremely helpful, perhaps more so than exercise. It's torture at first (who knew sitting still could be so hard), but once you get in to a routine (even 10-15 minutes a day) for a few weeks you'll notice a difference. Feel free not to answer if you're not comfortable, but would you say your anxiety is more 'mental' (e.g. catastrophic thinking) or 'physical' (e.g. shaking, butterflies in stomach etc.)?
- amelius 11y ago
  > but would you say your anxiety is more 'mental' (e.g. catastrophic thinking) or 'physical' (e.g. shaking, butterflies in stomach etc.)? Not the parent, but are there different types of anxiety? For me, the most prevalent effects are faster heartbeat at anxious moments (this even happens in the morning after waking up) and elevated symptoms of tinnitus and muscle pain in the neck. Interestingly, working hard mentally seems to make the anxiety go away, but at the end of the day it hits me back hard. I wonder how such symptoms would be classified.
  - humanrebar 11y ago
    > Interestingly, working hard mentally seems to make the anxiety go away, but at the end of the day it hits me back hard. Perhaps you focus well enough not to notice the physical effects. I know sometimes I'll stand up and realize I really need to take a bio break of some sort.
  - spangry 11y ago
    That's a unique mix of symptoms! Was just reading about tinnitus and apparently there's a high correlation with anxiety disorders. Are you under a lot of stress at the moment? I don't suppose you know if you clench or grind your teeth in your sleep, or perhaps have sleep apnoea? Definitely many kinds of anxiety. I think there are two broad groups (which aren't mutually exclusive): 'physical' anxiety/panic/phobia (your body's fight or flight response spools up at inappropriate times), and 'mental' anxiety (either specific or generalised). PTSD is in many ways is like a panic disorder, except the stimuli are memories or sensory inputs similar to ones that were salient during a traumatic event. I've got much more experience on the 'physical anxiety' side of things. I've found propranolol (a beta-blocker) to be extremely effective at suppressing physical anxiety. It's a very safe medication (unless you have asthma) and is non-narcotic. If your physical symptoms are troubling you, maybe raise this with your doctor. It's very cheap too. There have also been recent studies on treating PTSD sufferer's (with sleep episodes) with a similar kind of drug: alpha-adrenergic blockers (e.g. prazosin). This makes a lot of sense as it would also suppress the physical FoF response. I've tried a number of anti-depressants in the past with little success. They have a low probability of success in monothreapy for anxiety. Lastly, I'd strongly advise steering clear of benzos (e.g valium), unless you need acute short-term releif and are under medical supervision. You build a tolerance to them very quickly, and they're very physically addictive. The withdrawal can cause grand mal seizures (literally translates to 'big bad' seizures) and potentially even kill you (for long-term high dose usage). At the very least, when you come off them you'll generally experience rebound anxiety, which is not pleasant. If it's mostly physical, a you consider it a big enough impairment, I'd suggest meds might be a better option (unless there's a strong phobic aspect present [e.g. fear of spiders], in which case exposure therapy and CBT can be helpful). If it's more mental, maybe discuss your options with a GP and give talk therapy a try first. Good luck with your health. Don't leave it all in the hands of doctors; research and come to your own views before rocking up at an appointment.

such_a_casual 11y ago

Not to start a flame war with you, but in the hope that maybe I can make this panacea a little less popular I want to get something off my chest. Every time someone has a problem with mental health, whether it's depression, anxiety, drug withdrawal, etc the answer from the audience is always exercise. I'm only one data point, but I've exercised more days of my life than not and have observed absolutely no difference in mental health between the me that exercises and the me that doesn't. What about athletes: students-athletes, NBA players, olympians. Do they show a significantly lower rate of mental health issues? This argument has been floating around in my head for a while. The reason I think this suggestion is harmful is because it is the most vocal and popular, and yet excludes anyone who already exercises. Who is recommending this? My hypothesis is people who only exercise every once in a while and so they get a huge hit of endorphins and think, "Man if I did this every day I would feel great." Maybe, some people with mental health issues use exercise as an escape and are really recommending it for its temporary relief. But I'm just in denial about the majority of people being people who didn't exercise, were miserable/anxious/whatever, started exercising and now they're happy/normal/perfect. Again, I'm not trying to start any arguments here. For those of you who have been saved by exercise, I'm envious. I would really just like to see more answers than this instead of seeing it as the go to answer. It makes the assumption that people who have mental health issues don't exercise.

andrewvc 11y ago
If I had to guess people at the highest level of any profession are more likely to have mental issues. I wouldn't say that looking at the mood of Olympic weight lifters would say a lot about the general population's response to exercise.
- such_a_casual 11y ago
  I completely concede to that. I, admittedly, was just reaching for the most obvious example of people who exercise.
projectileboy 11y ago
I think you hear people recommend exercise because many of us in the tech sector don't get enough exercise, and for many it can make a huge difference. After I started jogging regularly a year ago, my depression lessened dramatically. But of course, everybody's different, so your mileage may vary.
- such_a_casual 11y ago
  My experiences with this are mostly not tech related. It seems to come up everywhere. I'm glad that you found something that worked for you.
  - Malician 11y ago
    I really emphasize with what you're saying here. As a kid, I remembering hearing - "drink water" all the time. It never helped. I never once felt better drinking water than not. But no-one cared. "I'm already drinking water." "It doesn't help." It was the panacea to a sea of unrelated problems and no-one was interested in actually checking up on whether it worked. Now, I'm at a different place in my life, and the water is immensely helpful. Exercise really helps - on average, statistically, it's one of the most effective interventions, and if you're any sort of health care provider you immediately notice the difference in a whole group of patients after they exercise vs a day they don't. And a lot of times individuals cannot notice the difference from inside, even if their behavior is a lot more upbeat. But for someone people who need something entirely different, it might not help for that particular issue.

spangry 11y ago

Anxiety/Panic disorder suffer here too. I've found the same: exercise is definitely helpful, but unfortunately not sufficient in my case. If you want to try in addition: I've found mindfulness meditation to be extremely helpful, perhaps more so than exercise. It's torture at first (who knew sitting still could be so hard), but once you get in to a routine (even 10-15 minutes a day) for a few weeks you'll notice a difference. Feel free not to answer if you're not comfortable, but would you say your anxiety is more 'mental' (e.g. catastrophic thinking) or 'physical' (e.g. shaking, butterflies in stomach etc.)?

amelius 11y ago
> but would you say your anxiety is more 'mental' (e.g. catastrophic thinking) or 'physical' (e.g. shaking, butterflies in stomach etc.)? Not the parent, but are there different types of anxiety? For me, the most prevalent effects are faster heartbeat at anxious moments (this even happens in the morning after waking up) and elevated symptoms of tinnitus and muscle pain in the neck. Interestingly, working hard mentally seems to make the anxiety go away, but at the end of the day it hits me back hard. I wonder how such symptoms would be classified.
- humanrebar 11y ago
  > Interestingly, working hard mentally seems to make the anxiety go away, but at the end of the day it hits me back hard. Perhaps you focus well enough not to notice the physical effects. I know sometimes I'll stand up and realize I really need to take a bio break of some sort.
- spangry 11y ago
  That's a unique mix of symptoms! Was just reading about tinnitus and apparently there's a high correlation with anxiety disorders. Are you under a lot of stress at the moment? I don't suppose you know if you clench or grind your teeth in your sleep, or perhaps have sleep apnoea? Definitely many kinds of anxiety. I think there are two broad groups (which aren't mutually exclusive): 'physical' anxiety/panic/phobia (your body's fight or flight response spools up at inappropriate times), and 'mental' anxiety (either specific or generalised). PTSD is in many ways is like a panic disorder, except the stimuli are memories or sensory inputs similar to ones that were salient during a traumatic event. I've got much more experience on the 'physical anxiety' side of things. I've found propranolol (a beta-blocker) to be extremely effective at suppressing physical anxiety. It's a very safe medication (unless you have asthma) and is non-narcotic. If your physical symptoms are troubling you, maybe raise this with your doctor. It's very cheap too. There have also been recent studies on treating PTSD sufferer's (with sleep episodes) with a similar kind of drug: alpha-adrenergic blockers (e.g. prazosin). This makes a lot of sense as it would also suppress the physical FoF response. I've tried a number of anti-depressants in the past with little success. They have a low probability of success in monothreapy for anxiety. Lastly, I'd strongly advise steering clear of benzos (e.g valium), unless you need acute short-term releif and are under medical supervision. You build a tolerance to them very quickly, and they're very physically addictive. The withdrawal can cause grand mal seizures (literally translates to 'big bad' seizures) and potentially even kill you (for long-term high dose usage). At the very least, when you come off them you'll generally experience rebound anxiety, which is not pleasant. If it's mostly physical, a you consider it a big enough impairment, I'd suggest meds might be a better option (unless there's a strong phobic aspect present [e.g. fear of spiders], in which case exposure therapy and CBT can be helpful). If it's more mental, maybe discuss your options with a GP and give talk therapy a try first. Good luck with your health. Don't leave it all in the hands of doctors; research and come to your own views before rocking up at an appointment.