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Twitter’s User Growth Goes Nowhere as It Meets Revenue Expectations of $710M

128 points by coloneltcb 11y ago

curiousDog 11y ago
Why on earth is wall street so hung up on user growth? Don't they still have a ton of monetization opportunities? I see no where near the amount of ads as facebook and I hear their ad targeting is pretty bad right now and despite all this, their revenue isn't bad at all.
- sergiotapia 11y ago
  Because if you ain't first, you're last! WOOO GIT SOME!!!!!!
- sosuke 11y ago
  These are the investors that want quick cash now. They want to put all their eggs in one basket and cash out before everyone else does.
  - oldmanjay 11y ago
    Or equally plausibly, they are investors worried about the long-term strength of the company since they are in the same market as several other very strong companies who look to the long term. That's less convenient for the narrative of hatred for Wall Street, of course, but it does seem within the bounds of reason.
- bonaldi 11y ago
  The price reflects the future prospects of Twitter, and a poorly-monetised Twitter with a shrinking user base is worth less than a poorly-monetised Twitter with a booming user base. Put another way, they used to be hosting a huge party and just had to work out how to turn that into cash. Now people are starting to leave the party, making cash less of a concern at that point.
  - ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
    Seems like they (and a lot of SV) need to figure out ways to monetize other than ads.
    - Grishnakh 11y ago
      I can tell you the easy answer to that problem: micropayments. Look how much people will spend on Android apps when they're a dollar or three. Make things really cheap, and people will buy them: they'll do a lot of impulse purchases when things are cheap enough. If news articles only showed you part of the article, and then demanded $0.02 to read the rest, I could see a lot of people paying that. Considering how little they get paid for ad impressions (fractions of a cent), direct payments like that would be more profitable, and readers wouldn't care that much about spending pocket change on it. But there's no way to make a functioning micropayment system currently. It's not feasible to have credit-card payments for sub-$1 transactions because of the high per-transaction fees, and Visa/MC have a cartel going where you have to use them for any kind of credit/debit payments. SV needs to figure out how to make easy, low-fee micropayments a reality, and then we'll see some change.
      - LoSboccacc 11y ago
        Any intermediary will face the issue of having user deposit an advance payment so micropayments can happen. Unless one has balls enough to factor in debt in micropayments. You sign up users and make them agree to pay those .02 at a later time and when you're down five dollars the usets need to pay to continue. It's risky but with enough margin to cover the insolvents it could work
        abraae 11y ago
        great plan! Allegedly a Facebook user is worth $128 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2014/02/07/youre-worth-128-on-facebook-sorry-about-that-linkedin-drop/#68e47ffa3aa0 http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2014/02/07/youre-wo...). Paying $5 to acquire a micropayment customer sounds cheap.
- joakleaf 11y ago
  Perhaps because they think lack of growth is a precursor to implosion. Investors also always think about the immediate obvious future. Twitter may have many monetization opportunities, but without implementing or demonstrating any, you have know way of knowing where they are going or if they'll succeed as an investor.
  - Riod 11y ago
    Quite possible too. They compete with FB for ad revenue. Social networks tend to be winner take all/most. If Twitter continues to be small, then it has to have a small valuation
- samfisher83 11y ago
  The way you do valuations is using DCF analysis. They do some projection until a final year at which point they treat is as perpetuity with some growth rate. Here is the basic formula PV = FCF/(r-g). Where r is discount rate and g is growth rate. As you can see g is huge in the way companies are valued. For example for d=10% and FCF value of $10 million a growth rate of 1% would value the company at 111 million whearas a growth rate of 9% would value it at $1 billion. Almost 10x as much. That is why growth is so important to finance people.
  - dharmon 11y ago
    This formula (the Gordon growth model), doesn't really apply here, cause the g is for perpetual growth. For example, if you plugged in FB's current growth rate, it would blow up to something ridiculously large. The rule of thumb is that it should never be larger than GDP (since that company would quickly come to dominate the national economy). Tracking inflation is safe if the company can at least raise prices to match inflation. If you don't want to set up a full DCF, the Benjamin Graham formula gives a quick intrinsic value estimate: V = E * (8.5 + 2g) * 1.1, E is earnings (FCF, or a modified form like owner's earnings would work also), but here, g is the growth rate for the next 7-10 years. This still wouldn't work for TWTR, since negative earnings always give you a negative value, so you would have to project out the next few years until twitter has positive earnings (or positive FCF), then you could use the Graham formula and discount it back to present value. But at that point you might as well just do a full DCF.
    - mistermann 11y ago
      You wouldn't happen to know of a book or website where one could learn some of these theories and formulas in a very condensed/quick way?
      - kgwgk 11y ago
        The Little Boook of Valuation, by Aswath Damodaran, is nice. You can find lot of things at his website, including a draft version of the book. http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/ http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/ http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pdfiles/papers/littlebookvaln.pdf http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pdfiles/papers/littlebo...
- revelation 11y ago
  Investing in stable, boring companies (or markets) is a suckers game reserved for pension funds. Or to put it differently, why invest in a company that isn't growing? How do you make money if you pay $X and don't expect the company to go beyond $X?
  - saryant 11y ago
    Dividends.
  - hodder 11y ago
    This is some of the worst investing advice I've ever heard. High valuation glamour investing in the way you describe has been widely discredited by academics as leading to poor returns. You can in fact slice the market into valuation deciles, and your returns on 5-10 yr rolling averages will increase as you step down to cheaper deciles. Further, high valuation stocks are subject to much greater crashes while annual best deciles upside is spread across valuation deciles. Meaning High value stocks tend to be a poor bet.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  Companies are compared to peer group companies by the banks. For example, small cap semiconductor companies are compared to each other on the basis of P/E, revenue growth, margins, etc. What are Twitter's peer companies? Well Facebook is certainly one such company that is publicly traded and its metrics widely available. So Facebook's numbers, and in particular the numbers that Wall Street analysts decide are relevant, become the benchmark stats that Twitter is judged on, even if Twitter actually should not be put into the same basket as Facebook.
- untog 11y ago
  Quite simple: investors invested in a company that was going to grow exponentially. Now that it is not growing, they want out. Which, IMO, is fine. I wish we lived in an environment where Twitter could say "we're making money, we're successful enough, invest if you like what you see", but Silicon Valley is frequently hockey stick growth or death.
  - bonaldi 11y ago
    I think a social network is slightly different from the other companies where that argument applies. The Internet was a fun place with 300m people on it, but growth made it better. Same with Facebook. People bring problems, but in general networks are better with more of them around.
    - ethbro 11y ago
      Some crotchety old timers might argue that point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
      - _cudgel 11y ago
        As a crotchety old timer, I agree completely.
        bonaldi 11y ago
        You'd take Usenet over everything else we got from the growth of the network, from Amazon to MP3s?
        ethbro 11y ago
        There's a lot of different distinctions to be made (or argued against) regarding the "who" of the network, rather than the "what". I think HN comments would be a prime example that simpler-functionality-with-higher-quality-participants is a valued combination.
- jusben1369 11y ago
  There are a lot of reasons why. Just one example is advertisers. The largest advertisers need to work with properties at a certain scale. TV has that. Google has that. Facebook now has that because it grew to be huge. Pinterest doesn't. Twitter doesn't and more importantly now looks like it never will. So if your service's primary revenue stream is advertising but you're unappealing to the largest advertisers it's a big problem.
  - bpicolo 11y ago
    Seems like a poor example. Twitter is way higher scale than a single TV network. 320M MAU.
    - smm2000 11y ago
      Twitter requires custom creatives - this is a huge cost. Every TV network can run standard 30s slot. Average American spends 4h on TV every single day. Twitter has nothing on that.
    - jusben1369 11y ago
      Yes. You can't deploy the same ad on FB and Twitter and Pinterest the way you can do a TV spot and deploy it on any channel large or small.
    - Riod 11y ago
      Actually the worst part of twitter is that things disappear so quickly (till recently). 320MM MAU doesn't mean everyone sees that. A TV ad can 1) be sent to any station, 2) has a good chance of being seen by a large % of people tuned into that station at that particular time.
- Xyik 11y ago
  An ads business is based on impressions. Growing users is one way of increasing impressions in which you can sell to advertisers.
- rb808 11y ago
  Wall Street isn't so hung up on user growth. The article is on techcrunch. OK it is an issue but there are lots of others. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/twitter-user-growth-stalls-first-quarter-sales-to-fall-short http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/twitter-us...
- briantmaurer 11y ago
  If there are two companies A and B, and you are convinced that A will yield a better ROI than B, you will sell B and buy A – even if there is room for B to yield a positive ROI. Growth in users/usage/engagement in a social network almost always yields a better ROI than no/low/negative growth in users/usage/engagement. Twitter does not necessarily have a monetization problem, people just want to invest their money where there is more potential.
  - Riod 11y ago
    No. Really depends on the price of B. If you could buy all of twitter for $1 now, you wouldn't?
    - altonzheng 11y ago
      Well, yes, because then your ROI would be huge for the money you're putting in.
      - Riod 11y ago
        Neat, me too.
    - briantmaurer 11y ago
      From an investor perspective, prices in the stock market are basically meaningless.[1] As an investor you can purchases multiples or fractions of a stock which allows you to choose your price. Percent change in price is all that matters for your ROI. e.x. A $1 increase on a $1 stock purchase yields a 100% increase, a $1 increase on a $100 stock price only yields a 1% increase. In this example, you should have purchased $100 worth of the $1 stock. e.x. On the other hand, if have some $x less than $100, but you think the $100 stock is going to increase at a faster rate than the $1 stock, you should purchase x/100th of a share of the $100 stock. [1] A stock's price is meaningful for two reasons. The sum of value of all shares defines the market capitalization for a company. Also, price can be used to exclude buyers in a socioeconomic way. This is rare, most companies will split the stock every so often to keep the price affordable. An example of an exclusionary stock is Berkshire A, which is currently priced around $180,000. Nonetheless, at the end of the day, as an investor, the only thing that matters is your expectation for the percent change in price.
- spangry 11y ago
  Sorry if it's bad form to re-post, but it seems relevant. Here's the counter-argument: My very controversial view is that Twitter will never achieve profitability (of the level that justifies their market cap). Like Facebook, Twitter is in a two-sided market. Unlike Facebook, it's unclear what the other side of that market is, or how it could be sufficiently monetised: User --> Facebook <-- Advertiser (Stalking) --> (Profit) <-- (Eyeballs) (Socialising) --> (Profit) <-- (Targeting) User --> Twitter <-- ? (Free expression) --> (Profit?) <-- ? (Public broadcast)--> (Profit?) <-- ? There are probably a bunch of other market participants on the right side (e.g. developers) for both companies. But I think these are the primary profit engines (and main benefits listed under the participants). Here's the interesting part. Let's assume the right side participant for Twitter is also 'advertisers'. In both cases, advertising creates a 'negative cross-side network effect': it subtracts from the user's benefit. But Facebook has a number of advantages over Twitter: - Because of the structured data they hold, it's far easier for them to target advertising at finely grained demographics. This is beneficial because it reduces or eliminates the 'user value subtraction' from advertising, and increases the value of placing an ad for advertisers (so Facebook can charge more for it). Twitter have far less scope to do this, as they can only make general inferences about their user based on sentiment and relationship-network analysis. Also, because the data is public, advertisers can analyse and target (via company/brand accounts) for free. - Facebook enjoy increasing returns to scale. On the user side, if more people use facebook there are more people to stalk or socialise with. On the advertiser side, more users means more eyeballs, more targeting data and more advertising niches. For Twitter, users gain far less from increased scale (as user-base size is not related to 'free expression', and only weakly related to 'public broadcasting', given non-twitter users can read twitter walls). Even worse, because Twitter data is public, they can't charge advertisers for the (less structured) data they generate. - Although an ill-defined concept, Facebook has increasing returns to scope. That is, as they acquire new types of data on their users, they can offer even better targeting and find more granular marketing niches. For example: imagine if Facebook acquired LinkedIn. It's fairly easy for them to link Facebook and LinkedIn users, as most use their real names on both. So now, in addition to knowing someone is a single 28 year old white guy who enjoys scotch, they now also know he earns a high income. This means that where they used to target him with generic scotch ads, they can now target high-end and expensive scotch ads at him. Twitter's users, on the other hand, mostly interact behind unlinkable pseudonyms. As heretical as these sound, I think there are only three ways for Twitter to generate significant profits (and they all carry significant drawbacks): - start charging for API calls above some threshold (i.e. charge for market research) - start charging commercial entities based on number of followers (or volume of tweets) - use adsense (better user data linkability) tl;dr - Twitter creates significant value. But it's difficult for them to capture at least some of that value as profit (unlike Facebook).
- randyfandal 11y ago
  Because there are other things that DO grow. So if twitter doesn't grow, then you go invest your money somewhere else that does grow. Which means you sell twitter.
- perseusprime11 11y ago
  Facebook trained the wall street to think in terms of MAUs.
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  Because monetisation is logarithmic, while growth is supposed to be exponential for a while. You can go from $1 / user to $1.40 / user or $1.60 / user, but you can't go to $3 / user or $10 / user without some fundamental shifts that'll lose you users. You CAN go from 100 million users to 300 million to 1 billion.
danharaj 11y ago
the sentiment i've gathered from people who use twitter professionally, namely journalists and the like, is that an algorithmic timeline would completely destroy the value proposition for them. twitter is such a nice little social media app that i find it disturbing to see it bullied by wall street. such is the fate of a publicly traded company. if it were a private company that could focus on being profitable without growing extravagantly and taking over the world like Facebook or Google, it could focus on providing its unique value to its most important users. i think of all the social media platforms i use, twitter is the one that most tremendously contributes to society. twitter, far more than facebook in my opinion, democratizes the dissemination of ideas and information.
- mschuster91 11y ago
  > twitter, far more than facebook in my opinion, democratizes the dissemination of ideas and information. Not any more since the last wave of closing "alleged ISIS" accounts. I can't stand those religious retards either, but banning people just because they follow a religious cult of killers who spread hate and murder threats? You could use the same argument to ban practically everything... including followers of Donald "Muslims out!!!" Trump, Frauke "Shoot refugees at the border" Petry, Recep Tayyip "Kurd Killer" Erdogan or whoever is the King of Saudi Arabia. None of these groups are in any danger to be banned from popular social media sites despite their ideology being very similar (or, in case of Saudi Arabia, identically) to the IS and their followers equally murderish and morally depraved (Erdogan, Saudi Arabia, the neo-Nazis burning refugee camps down in Germany). It's inconsequent and the mere possibility of banning someone over anything that members of another (whiter? religious-er?) group are allowed to do opens up highly complex moral issues.
  - niccaluim 11y ago
    banning people just because they follow a religious cult of killers who spread hate and murder threats I dunno man—when you put it like that, it sounds like a pretty great idea.
    - mschuster91 11y ago
Zikes 11y ago
I know there are theoretical alternatives to Twitter, but until the appropriate userbase is out there then they're not truly viable alternatives. I know that's a Catch-22, or a paradox, or whatever you want to call it, but that's the sad reality for those of us that would like to leave the platform. So, in lieu of leaving, here are the features I feel like would help Twitter retain me as a user: 1. Bring back custom apps! Twitter is a service, and I want control over how I access that service. This would also take such a huge burden off of Twitter: don't care about the super bowl? Use an app that lets you filter hashtags, piece of cake! So many features can be implemented on top of a service, with no extra effort from Twitter. I get that this could conceivably enable filtering timeline ads, but seriously they can just pull API keys for apps that do that, it's a non-issue. 2. Let me subscribe to ideas, not just people. If I do care about the super bowl, maybe let me turn on push notifications for tweets about it from people within my network for whom I otherwise do not have push notifications enabled. 3. Make chronological timelines a setting. Not an option, not a tab, a semi-permanently enabled setting. It's the most annoying thing about Facebook right now, having to explicitly re-enable chronological timelines every week or so when Facebook has "forgotten". As it stands, even that much is an improvement over Twitter's proposed always-on non-chronological timeline. 4. Don't nanny me unless I ask you to. There have been reports that Twitter has blocked notifications for @replied tweets because Twitter suspected the tweet would be offensive. I get that harassment is an issue and that Twitter was trying to be proactive, but make it an option. The user in this case was failing to be notified of tweets they wanted to see, and had no way to disable the "feature". 5. Inconsistency foments distrust. If you want that blue check mark to mean something then you'd best lay out a solid and strict process for them. I've seen at least one person have theirs removed over unsubstantiated claims, yet more egregious offenders have kept theirs throughout. I've seen others go through the process for acquire their blue checks and they always seem to have different requirements. Some reported having to change their profile name to their real name, others said they had to put their actual photo on their profile.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  Out of curiosity, what would your counterargument be to those who say, "Facebook does all the things you list wrong, yet look where they are today. Why should Twitter do any differently?"
eruditely 11y ago
Can we stay away from quarterly earning reports and wall street style newspaper reportings? This industry is supposed to be a little different. Let's not go along with their rhythm as that way they still mold us in their image. Let's not be like them.
- adventured 11y ago
  Sure. You just need to stop going public after diluting ownership down so far you have no control over your own company via endless rounds of VC to pay for not having a business model (causing you to bleed red ink and ultimately be overly dependent on outside money), and stop giving all the power to institutional investors accordingly. Then you can get away from the pressure of quarterly results. Otherwise, no, there's no scenario under which you can get away from that influence while owning 3%-5% of your own company and being public. Twitter made a mistake by not having its ownership structure set up like Facebook and Google.
  - petethomas 11y ago
    Here's an archive.org link to Dan Bigman's May 2012 Forbes post on those ownership structures (published a few months after Facebook's IPO): http://web.archive.org/web/20120527223753/http://www.forbes.com/sites/danbigman/2012/05/23/facebook-ownership-structure-should-scare-investors-more-than-botched-ipo/ http://web.archive.org/web/20120527223753/http://www.forbes....
  - nikdaheratik 11y ago
    You are assuming they had a real choice. FB and Google's structure is uncommon because most owners/founders don't have the clout to be able to get investors to read that deal and still want to sign up. And 5% of a large public corporation is a huge share.
- monkmartinez 11y ago
  What is the alternative? I am genuinely curious what could be a better barometer of business; Should I take @jack's word or ask, politely, to see the numbers?
sjg007 11y ago
I think a deeper integration with periscope and timelines will help Twitter. The real time direct global conversation is important.
- doublerebel 11y ago
  I didn't understand Periscope until I saw a mini-celeb use it. People love it. It's like Snapchat in live group form for celebs. Like why people love to call into a live radio or TV show. Regardless of what happens to traditional Twitter, I think Periscope has a lot of room to grow. However, Twitter's algo timeline makes it nearly useless to me. It was already a mess and the linear timeline was the only thing I liked. The linear timeline would have been manageable if they still allowed third party clients... but I digress. I'm sure I'll still use it anyway to announce software releases and get customer support from slacking companies.
  - cft 11y ago
    The problem is that Periscope is a startup. Wall St will not like Twitter to be run as a startup, and yet Dorsey is trying to position Periscope as the savior for Twitter. I think that Periscope is an awesome product btw, but sinking Twitter may take it down with it unfortunately.
  - jdminhbg 11y ago
    Periscope seems like it works great for [mini]-celebs, but unlike other platforms that have gotten huge from celebrity use (Twitter itself, Snapchat, etc), I don't see the normal-person use case.
rajacombinator 11y ago
Does Twitter break out the numbers on Vine? The valuation is starting to get tempting at these levels. I think Wall St is missing the big picture, as usual.
cft 11y ago
Q4 was the first quarter ever with negative growth: http://twitter.com/JasonAbbruzzese/status/697532872824070144/photo/1 http://twitter.com/JasonAbbruzzese/status/697532872824070144...
altonzheng 11y ago
I'm looking forward to this algorithmic feed, as much as I like the simplicity of the firehose of tweets. The reason I avoid twitter right now is because I end up following a few people that I only care a little bit about, yet they dominate my feed disproportionately. It'll be a lot harder for Twitter to figure out relevance for their users though, compared to Facebook, considering the lack of user actions they have in comparison. (It's a much more passive platform)
suprgeek 11y ago
I think Twitter can really pivot to become the first aggregated MicroPayments platform. An all-you-can eat option: $10/Month - Read any news, blog, whatnot, follow anyone, tweet to anyone, upload anykind of media A-la-cart: pay 0.01$ after reading the 140 character summary for full article access, pay 0.05$ for full tweet stream access to some really useful accounts, etc Free: Every fourth tweet is an ad, You get only previews of articles, and only a portion of the Tweetstream of really useful content. Twitter can then kick-back some dough to the content publishers. Twitter maintains and controls the payment info already anyway. If they get ambitious they can hook into buying and selling as well.
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  There is a huge jump in $0 and $5, which is the minimum funding amount for cc fees to not be huge. You'd see a mass user exodus.
xufi 11y ago
TWitter seems to be having this issue for a while now. I wonder if it'll do what FB is doing by going in to other ventures
brianstorms 11y ago
"Goes nowhere"? I see 2 million new users. As I blogged about this recently (http://brianstorms.com/2016/02/twitter-executives-are-like-louis-cks-whiny-air-travelers.html http://brianstorms.com/2016/02/twitter-executives-are-like-l...), Twitter execs fiddling with the product and the wall street banksters complaining about Twitter's growth remind me of whiny air travelers as described by Louis CK. As he might say about Twitter, people! Twitter is a technological marvel! Over three hundred MILLION people connected all over the world in real time! There's never been anything like it. And it is growing each month! What a wonderful world!
Theodores 11y ago
If Twitter ceased to exist, would it really matter? That is the fundamental problem with it. The world gets by perfectly fine without Twitter (and all those that 'tweet'). It is not a communication medium of record in the way that email is. I do not ask people 'did you get my tweet?' in the way I might ask people if they got my email. I never say 'I will tweet it to you' in the way I might text/skype/email someone. I know some of my colleagues and family members say great things about Twitter, but these guys commute and Twitter is just another thing they read on the journey. I actually have no clue what my sister's Twitter handle is, I have no idea what any of my current colleagues Twitter handles are either. It simply has never occurred to me that I should ask any of them how to follow them on Twitter. I don't care and neither do they. Twitter also fails the 'other people's screens test'. What is this? Well, walk through a large enough office at lunch time and see what NORMAL people have on their screens whilst working and whilst on lunch. Nobody is reading Twitter because they have to as part of what their job or out of choice in the few moments they have of 'free time'. The recently slagged off LinkedIn and the oft-criticised Facebook do pretty well on the 'other people's screens test' even if it is only the HR department that do LinkedIn. Twitter isn't even worth blocking from corporate IT networks!!! I feel that with Twitter some people have bought into the hype and personally invested time and effort into believing that hype, for them to say it is useless is not going to happen. Yes it does allow me to have a window in on the programming community I am part of, however, one 'vital' news story feed in my micro-world-of-programming stopped and life went on for me, despite not having Twitter to brief me of what I thought were important developments. RSS fulfilled this requirement beforehand, life went on when RSS stopped and life will go on when this stupid Twitter thing stops, which I hope will happen sooner rather than later. Really it is like CB radio of the 1970's.
firebones 11y ago
US YoY numbers are down--this is true. Q4 has historically been a bad growth month for them. If you're focused on MAUs, then Q4 in a non-election year is going to be bad. It's like "peak boring Twitter". Everyone is rocking Amazon and the online retailers. There are no new TV series or movies dropping. Bowl season hasn't started. World Cup 2014 (Men) and 2015 (Women) are past. Granted, the US annual YoY numbers aren't good, but: * International is up 11%. * 2016 is an election year. * And there are Olympics this year. * And Q1 is historically the strongest growth month. I kind of think that if you're strictly MAU-focused, it's not a bad time to get in. That said: * I have noticed casual users dropping off their interaction volume based on my puny timeline. * I attribute some of that not to anything competitive, but to the economy picking up and everyone being so freaking busy. More lurking, less of a need to self-validate. Call it social proof fatigue. (I really suspect this is the canary in the coal mine for Facebook engagement.) * The sharp divide between folks who claim to "get" Twitter and those who claim to "don't get" Twitter is sharpening. Rather than seeing this as a negative, I see this as a bifurcation that can be studied and exploited. Twitter still has a unique and important niche. There are so many ways they can innovate around this niche without destroying it. My take: * Twitter search is an unexploited global resource. * Buffing up search and offering it orthogonally to the Twitter user experience is a HUGE potential upside that is untapped. They can monetize the hell out of that and not screw up the experience! Why limit engagement with their data flow to the timeline! I'd gladly accept more ads in a search than in my timeline. * Restating that: content creators--the people who tweet--low barrier to entry. Market search and Moments in a broader way. The pulse of the country. You can laden that with the ads. Those are the MAUs you want. They'll be fine. This feels more like a narrative created by competitors or potential acquirers to get them on the cheap before they can execute on their core value. Maybe they're run by weak-willed dullards who will cave because they can't see it, and it will be Google or someone else with a lick of sense that leads them to their promise, or who acquires them to kill them off.
davidpatrick 11y ago
There is such a unique opportunity Twitter has attempted but not fully captured with Moments. When big events happen, people take to Twitter. With an aggregate of Periscope, Vine, and Twitter, we could have interactive LIVE events. Tune in on your phone, and don't just join the conversation, be part of the event. Unfortunately, Moments feels too static. They hand pick some decent tweets and there you go... Give me the car chase feeling of the 1990s! Where is a white bronco when you need one...
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  Twitter seems to advertise to possibly "offensive" UGC to make its platform shine. It's not an invalid consideration, but I feel they're overdoing it. When I search a hashtag, I want to see what people are talking about. I don't want to see what CNN or HuffPost is tweeting about. Because I'd to to Google for that. Twitter needs an automatic curation / reputation system, auto language filtering, and then a greater focus on the tweet firehose like you said. Why their product team doesn't grasp this is beyond me.
reality_czech 11y ago
I never used Twitter because the product's name implicitly refers to its users as twits (a characterization which is usually accurate.)

128 points by coloneltcb 11y ago

Why on earth is wall street so hung up on user growth? Don't they still have a ton of monetization opportunities? I see no where near the amount of ads as facebook and I hear their ad targeting is pretty bad right now and despite all this, their revenue isn't bad at all.

sergiotapia 11y ago
Because if you ain't first, you're last! WOOO GIT SOME!!!!!!
sosuke 11y ago
These are the investors that want quick cash now. They want to put all their eggs in one basket and cash out before everyone else does.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  Or equally plausibly, they are investors worried about the long-term strength of the company since they are in the same market as several other very strong companies who look to the long term. That's less convenient for the narrative of hatred for Wall Street, of course, but it does seem within the bounds of reason.
bonaldi 11y ago
The price reflects the future prospects of Twitter, and a poorly-monetised Twitter with a shrinking user base is worth less than a poorly-monetised Twitter with a booming user base. Put another way, they used to be hosting a huge party and just had to work out how to turn that into cash. Now people are starting to leave the party, making cash less of a concern at that point.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  Seems like they (and a lot of SV) need to figure out ways to monetize other than ads.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    I can tell you the easy answer to that problem: micropayments. Look how much people will spend on Android apps when they're a dollar or three. Make things really cheap, and people will buy them: they'll do a lot of impulse purchases when things are cheap enough. If news articles only showed you part of the article, and then demanded $0.02 to read the rest, I could see a lot of people paying that. Considering how little they get paid for ad impressions (fractions of a cent), direct payments like that would be more profitable, and readers wouldn't care that much about spending pocket change on it. But there's no way to make a functioning micropayment system currently. It's not feasible to have credit-card payments for sub-$1 transactions because of the high per-transaction fees, and Visa/MC have a cartel going where you have to use them for any kind of credit/debit payments. SV needs to figure out how to make easy, low-fee micropayments a reality, and then we'll see some change.
    - LoSboccacc 11y ago
      Any intermediary will face the issue of having user deposit an advance payment so micropayments can happen. Unless one has balls enough to factor in debt in micropayments. You sign up users and make them agree to pay those .02 at a later time and when you're down five dollars the usets need to pay to continue. It's risky but with enough margin to cover the insolvents it could work
      - abraae 11y ago
        great plan! Allegedly a Facebook user is worth $128 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2014/02/07/youre-worth-128-on-facebook-sorry-about-that-linkedin-drop/#68e47ffa3aa0 http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeanders/2014/02/07/youre-wo...). Paying $5 to acquire a micropayment customer sounds cheap.
joakleaf 11y ago
Perhaps because they think lack of growth is a precursor to implosion. Investors also always think about the immediate obvious future. Twitter may have many monetization opportunities, but without implementing or demonstrating any, you have know way of knowing where they are going or if they'll succeed as an investor.
- Riod 11y ago
  Quite possible too. They compete with FB for ad revenue. Social networks tend to be winner take all/most. If Twitter continues to be small, then it has to have a small valuation
samfisher83 11y ago
The way you do valuations is using DCF analysis. They do some projection until a final year at which point they treat is as perpetuity with some growth rate. Here is the basic formula PV = FCF/(r-g). Where r is discount rate and g is growth rate. As you can see g is huge in the way companies are valued. For example for d=10% and FCF value of $10 million a growth rate of 1% would value the company at 111 million whearas a growth rate of 9% would value it at $1 billion. Almost 10x as much. That is why growth is so important to finance people.
- dharmon 11y ago
  This formula (the Gordon growth model), doesn't really apply here, cause the g is for perpetual growth. For example, if you plugged in FB's current growth rate, it would blow up to something ridiculously large. The rule of thumb is that it should never be larger than GDP (since that company would quickly come to dominate the national economy). Tracking inflation is safe if the company can at least raise prices to match inflation. If you don't want to set up a full DCF, the Benjamin Graham formula gives a quick intrinsic value estimate: V = E * (8.5 + 2g) * 1.1, E is earnings (FCF, or a modified form like owner's earnings would work also), but here, g is the growth rate for the next 7-10 years. This still wouldn't work for TWTR, since negative earnings always give you a negative value, so you would have to project out the next few years until twitter has positive earnings (or positive FCF), then you could use the Graham formula and discount it back to present value. But at that point you might as well just do a full DCF.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    You wouldn't happen to know of a book or website where one could learn some of these theories and formulas in a very condensed/quick way?
    - kgwgk 11y ago
      The Little Boook of Valuation, by Aswath Damodaran, is nice. You can find lot of things at his website, including a draft version of the book. http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/ http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/ http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pdfiles/papers/littlebookvaln.pdf http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pdfiles/papers/littlebo...
revelation 11y ago
Investing in stable, boring companies (or markets) is a suckers game reserved for pension funds. Or to put it differently, why invest in a company that isn't growing? How do you make money if you pay $X and don't expect the company to go beyond $X?
- saryant 11y ago
  Dividends.
- hodder 11y ago
  This is some of the worst investing advice I've ever heard. High valuation glamour investing in the way you describe has been widely discredited by academics as leading to poor returns. You can in fact slice the market into valuation deciles, and your returns on 5-10 yr rolling averages will increase as you step down to cheaper deciles. Further, high valuation stocks are subject to much greater crashes while annual best deciles upside is spread across valuation deciles. Meaning High value stocks tend to be a poor bet.
hkmurakami 11y ago
Companies are compared to peer group companies by the banks. For example, small cap semiconductor companies are compared to each other on the basis of P/E, revenue growth, margins, etc. What are Twitter's peer companies? Well Facebook is certainly one such company that is publicly traded and its metrics widely available. So Facebook's numbers, and in particular the numbers that Wall Street analysts decide are relevant, become the benchmark stats that Twitter is judged on, even if Twitter actually should not be put into the same basket as Facebook.
untog 11y ago
Quite simple: investors invested in a company that was going to grow exponentially. Now that it is not growing, they want out. Which, IMO, is fine. I wish we lived in an environment where Twitter could say "we're making money, we're successful enough, invest if you like what you see", but Silicon Valley is frequently hockey stick growth or death.
- bonaldi 11y ago
  I think a social network is slightly different from the other companies where that argument applies. The Internet was a fun place with 300m people on it, but growth made it better. Same with Facebook. People bring problems, but in general networks are better with more of them around.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    Some crotchety old timers might argue that point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
    - _cudgel 11y ago
      As a crotchety old timer, I agree completely.
      - bonaldi 11y ago
        You'd take Usenet over everything else we got from the growth of the network, from Amazon to MP3s?
        ethbro 11y ago
        There's a lot of different distinctions to be made (or argued against) regarding the "who" of the network, rather than the "what". I think HN comments would be a prime example that simpler-functionality-with-higher-quality-participants is a valued combination.
jusben1369 11y ago
There are a lot of reasons why. Just one example is advertisers. The largest advertisers need to work with properties at a certain scale. TV has that. Google has that. Facebook now has that because it grew to be huge. Pinterest doesn't. Twitter doesn't and more importantly now looks like it never will. So if your service's primary revenue stream is advertising but you're unappealing to the largest advertisers it's a big problem.
- bpicolo 11y ago
  Seems like a poor example. Twitter is way higher scale than a single TV network. 320M MAU.
  - smm2000 11y ago
    Twitter requires custom creatives - this is a huge cost. Every TV network can run standard 30s slot. Average American spends 4h on TV every single day. Twitter has nothing on that.
  - jusben1369 11y ago
    Yes. You can't deploy the same ad on FB and Twitter and Pinterest the way you can do a TV spot and deploy it on any channel large or small.
  - Riod 11y ago
    Actually the worst part of twitter is that things disappear so quickly (till recently). 320MM MAU doesn't mean everyone sees that. A TV ad can 1) be sent to any station, 2) has a good chance of being seen by a large % of people tuned into that station at that particular time.
Xyik 11y ago
An ads business is based on impressions. Growing users is one way of increasing impressions in which you can sell to advertisers.
rb808 11y ago
Wall Street isn't so hung up on user growth. The article is on techcrunch. OK it is an issue but there are lots of others. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/twitter-user-growth-stalls-first-quarter-sales-to-fall-short http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/twitter-us...
briantmaurer 11y ago
If there are two companies A and B, and you are convinced that A will yield a better ROI than B, you will sell B and buy A – even if there is room for B to yield a positive ROI. Growth in users/usage/engagement in a social network almost always yields a better ROI than no/low/negative growth in users/usage/engagement. Twitter does not necessarily have a monetization problem, people just want to invest their money where there is more potential.
- Riod 11y ago
  No. Really depends on the price of B. If you could buy all of twitter for $1 now, you wouldn't?
  - altonzheng 11y ago
    Well, yes, because then your ROI would be huge for the money you're putting in.
    - Riod 11y ago
      Neat, me too.
  - briantmaurer 11y ago
    From an investor perspective, prices in the stock market are basically meaningless.[1] As an investor you can purchases multiples or fractions of a stock which allows you to choose your price. Percent change in price is all that matters for your ROI. e.x. A $1 increase on a $1 stock purchase yields a 100% increase, a $1 increase on a $100 stock price only yields a 1% increase. In this example, you should have purchased $100 worth of the $1 stock. e.x. On the other hand, if have some $x less than $100, but you think the $100 stock is going to increase at a faster rate than the $1 stock, you should purchase x/100th of a share of the $100 stock. [1] A stock's price is meaningful for two reasons. The sum of value of all shares defines the market capitalization for a company. Also, price can be used to exclude buyers in a socioeconomic way. This is rare, most companies will split the stock every so often to keep the price affordable. An example of an exclusionary stock is Berkshire A, which is currently priced around $180,000. Nonetheless, at the end of the day, as an investor, the only thing that matters is your expectation for the percent change in price.
spangry 11y ago
Sorry if it's bad form to re-post, but it seems relevant. Here's the counter-argument: My very controversial view is that Twitter will never achieve profitability (of the level that justifies their market cap). Like Facebook, Twitter is in a two-sided market. Unlike Facebook, it's unclear what the other side of that market is, or how it could be sufficiently monetised: User --> Facebook <-- Advertiser (Stalking) --> (Profit) <-- (Eyeballs) (Socialising) --> (Profit) <-- (Targeting) User --> Twitter <-- ? (Free expression) --> (Profit?) <-- ? (Public broadcast)--> (Profit?) <-- ? There are probably a bunch of other market participants on the right side (e.g. developers) for both companies. But I think these are the primary profit engines (and main benefits listed under the participants). Here's the interesting part. Let's assume the right side participant for Twitter is also 'advertisers'. In both cases, advertising creates a 'negative cross-side network effect': it subtracts from the user's benefit. But Facebook has a number of advantages over Twitter: - Because of the structured data they hold, it's far easier for them to target advertising at finely grained demographics. This is beneficial because it reduces or eliminates the 'user value subtraction' from advertising, and increases the value of placing an ad for advertisers (so Facebook can charge more for it). Twitter have far less scope to do this, as they can only make general inferences about their user based on sentiment and relationship-network analysis. Also, because the data is public, advertisers can analyse and target (via company/brand accounts) for free. - Facebook enjoy increasing returns to scale. On the user side, if more people use facebook there are more people to stalk or socialise with. On the advertiser side, more users means more eyeballs, more targeting data and more advertising niches. For Twitter, users gain far less from increased scale (as user-base size is not related to 'free expression', and only weakly related to 'public broadcasting', given non-twitter users can read twitter walls). Even worse, because Twitter data is public, they can't charge advertisers for the (less structured) data they generate. - Although an ill-defined concept, Facebook has increasing returns to scope. That is, as they acquire new types of data on their users, they can offer even better targeting and find more granular marketing niches. For example: imagine if Facebook acquired LinkedIn. It's fairly easy for them to link Facebook and LinkedIn users, as most use their real names on both. So now, in addition to knowing someone is a single 28 year old white guy who enjoys scotch, they now also know he earns a high income. This means that where they used to target him with generic scotch ads, they can now target high-end and expensive scotch ads at him. Twitter's users, on the other hand, mostly interact behind unlinkable pseudonyms. As heretical as these sound, I think there are only three ways for Twitter to generate significant profits (and they all carry significant drawbacks): - start charging for API calls above some threshold (i.e. charge for market research) - start charging commercial entities based on number of followers (or volume of tweets) - use adsense (better user data linkability) tl;dr - Twitter creates significant value. But it's difficult for them to capture at least some of that value as profit (unlike Facebook).
randyfandal 11y ago
Because there are other things that DO grow. So if twitter doesn't grow, then you go invest your money somewhere else that does grow. Which means you sell twitter.
perseusprime11 11y ago
Facebook trained the wall street to think in terms of MAUs.
HappyTypist 11y ago
Because monetisation is logarithmic, while growth is supposed to be exponential for a while. You can go from $1 / user to $1.40 / user or $1.60 / user, but you can't go to $3 / user or $10 / user without some fundamental shifts that'll lose you users. You CAN go from 100 million users to 300 million to 1 billion.

danharaj 11y ago

the sentiment i've gathered from people who use twitter professionally, namely journalists and the like, is that an algorithmic timeline would completely destroy the value proposition for them. twitter is such a nice little social media app that i find it disturbing to see it bullied by wall street. such is the fate of a publicly traded company. if it were a private company that could focus on being profitable without growing extravagantly and taking over the world like Facebook or Google, it could focus on providing its unique value to its most important users. i think of all the social media platforms i use, twitter is the one that most tremendously contributes to society. twitter, far more than facebook in my opinion, democratizes the dissemination of ideas and information.

mschuster91 11y ago
> twitter, far more than facebook in my opinion, democratizes the dissemination of ideas and information. Not any more since the last wave of closing "alleged ISIS" accounts. I can't stand those religious retards either, but banning people just because they follow a religious cult of killers who spread hate and murder threats? You could use the same argument to ban practically everything... including followers of Donald "Muslims out!!!" Trump, Frauke "Shoot refugees at the border" Petry, Recep Tayyip "Kurd Killer" Erdogan or whoever is the King of Saudi Arabia. None of these groups are in any danger to be banned from popular social media sites despite their ideology being very similar (or, in case of Saudi Arabia, identically) to the IS and their followers equally murderish and morally depraved (Erdogan, Saudi Arabia, the neo-Nazis burning refugee camps down in Germany). It's inconsequent and the mere possibility of banning someone over anything that members of another (whiter? religious-er?) group are allowed to do opens up highly complex moral issues.
- niccaluim 11y ago
  banning people just because they follow a religious cult of killers who spread hate and murder threats I dunno man—when you put it like that, it sounds like a pretty great idea.
  - mschuster91 11y ago

Zikes 11y ago

I know there are theoretical alternatives to Twitter, but until the appropriate userbase is out there then they're not truly viable alternatives. I know that's a Catch-22, or a paradox, or whatever you want to call it, but that's the sad reality for those of us that would like to leave the platform. So, in lieu of leaving, here are the features I feel like would help Twitter retain me as a user: 1. Bring back custom apps! Twitter is a service, and I want control over how I access that service. This would also take such a huge burden off of Twitter: don't care about the super bowl? Use an app that lets you filter hashtags, piece of cake! So many features can be implemented on top of a service, with no extra effort from Twitter. I get that this could conceivably enable filtering timeline ads, but seriously they can just pull API keys for apps that do that, it's a non-issue. 2. Let me subscribe to ideas, not just people. If I do care about the super bowl, maybe let me turn on push notifications for tweets about it from people within my network for whom I otherwise do not have push notifications enabled. 3. Make chronological timelines a setting. Not an option, not a tab, a semi-permanently enabled setting. It's the most annoying thing about Facebook right now, having to explicitly re-enable chronological timelines every week or so when Facebook has "forgotten". As it stands, even that much is an improvement over Twitter's proposed always-on non-chronological timeline. 4. Don't nanny me unless I ask you to. There have been reports that Twitter has blocked notifications for @replied tweets because Twitter suspected the tweet would be offensive. I get that harassment is an issue and that Twitter was trying to be proactive, but make it an option. The user in this case was failing to be notified of tweets they wanted to see, and had no way to disable the "feature". 5. Inconsistency foments distrust. If you want that blue check mark to mean something then you'd best lay out a solid and strict process for them. I've seen at least one person have theirs removed over unsubstantiated claims, yet more egregious offenders have kept theirs throughout. I've seen others go through the process for acquire their blue checks and they always seem to have different requirements. Some reported having to change their profile name to their real name, others said they had to put their actual photo on their profile.

hkmurakami 11y ago
Out of curiosity, what would your counterargument be to those who say, "Facebook does all the things you list wrong, yet look where they are today. Why should Twitter do any differently?"

eruditely 11y ago

Can we stay away from quarterly earning reports and wall street style newspaper reportings? This industry is supposed to be a little different. Let's not go along with their rhythm as that way they still mold us in their image. Let's not be like them.

adventured 11y ago
Sure. You just need to stop going public after diluting ownership down so far you have no control over your own company via endless rounds of VC to pay for not having a business model (causing you to bleed red ink and ultimately be overly dependent on outside money), and stop giving all the power to institutional investors accordingly. Then you can get away from the pressure of quarterly results. Otherwise, no, there's no scenario under which you can get away from that influence while owning 3%-5% of your own company and being public. Twitter made a mistake by not having its ownership structure set up like Facebook and Google.
- petethomas 11y ago
  Here's an archive.org link to Dan Bigman's May 2012 Forbes post on those ownership structures (published a few months after Facebook's IPO): http://web.archive.org/web/20120527223753/http://www.forbes.com/sites/danbigman/2012/05/23/facebook-ownership-structure-should-scare-investors-more-than-botched-ipo/ http://web.archive.org/web/20120527223753/http://www.forbes....
- nikdaheratik 11y ago
  You are assuming they had a real choice. FB and Google's structure is uncommon because most owners/founders don't have the clout to be able to get investors to read that deal and still want to sign up. And 5% of a large public corporation is a huge share.
monkmartinez 11y ago
What is the alternative? I am genuinely curious what could be a better barometer of business; Should I take @jack's word or ask, politely, to see the numbers?

sjg007 11y ago

I think a deeper integration with periscope and timelines will help Twitter. The real time direct global conversation is important.

doublerebel 11y ago
I didn't understand Periscope until I saw a mini-celeb use it. People love it. It's like Snapchat in live group form for celebs. Like why people love to call into a live radio or TV show. Regardless of what happens to traditional Twitter, I think Periscope has a lot of room to grow. However, Twitter's algo timeline makes it nearly useless to me. It was already a mess and the linear timeline was the only thing I liked. The linear timeline would have been manageable if they still allowed third party clients... but I digress. I'm sure I'll still use it anyway to announce software releases and get customer support from slacking companies.
- cft 11y ago
  The problem is that Periscope is a startup. Wall St will not like Twitter to be run as a startup, and yet Dorsey is trying to position Periscope as the savior for Twitter. I think that Periscope is an awesome product btw, but sinking Twitter may take it down with it unfortunately.
- jdminhbg 11y ago
  Periscope seems like it works great for [mini]-celebs, but unlike other platforms that have gotten huge from celebrity use (Twitter itself, Snapchat, etc), I don't see the normal-person use case.

rajacombinator 11y ago

Does Twitter break out the numbers on Vine? The valuation is starting to get tempting at these levels. I think Wall St is missing the big picture, as usual.

cft 11y ago

Q4 was the first quarter ever with negative growth: http://twitter.com/JasonAbbruzzese/status/697532872824070144/photo/1 http://twitter.com/JasonAbbruzzese/status/697532872824070144...

altonzheng 11y ago

I'm looking forward to this algorithmic feed, as much as I like the simplicity of the firehose of tweets. The reason I avoid twitter right now is because I end up following a few people that I only care a little bit about, yet they dominate my feed disproportionately. It'll be a lot harder for Twitter to figure out relevance for their users though, compared to Facebook, considering the lack of user actions they have in comparison. (It's a much more passive platform)

suprgeek 11y ago

I think Twitter can really pivot to become the first aggregated MicroPayments platform. An all-you-can eat option: $10/Month - Read any news, blog, whatnot, follow anyone, tweet to anyone, upload anykind of media A-la-cart: pay 0.01$ after reading the 140 character summary for full article access, pay 0.05$ for full tweet stream access to some really useful accounts, etc Free: Every fourth tweet is an ad, You get only previews of articles, and only a portion of the Tweetstream of really useful content. Twitter can then kick-back some dough to the content publishers. Twitter maintains and controls the payment info already anyway. If they get ambitious they can hook into buying and selling as well.

HappyTypist 11y ago
There is a huge jump in $0 and $5, which is the minimum funding amount for cc fees to not be huge. You'd see a mass user exodus.

xufi 11y ago

TWitter seems to be having this issue for a while now. I wonder if it'll do what FB is doing by going in to other ventures

brianstorms 11y ago

"Goes nowhere"? I see 2 million new users. As I blogged about this recently (http://brianstorms.com/2016/02/twitter-executives-are-like-louis-cks-whiny-air-travelers.html http://brianstorms.com/2016/02/twitter-executives-are-like-l...), Twitter execs fiddling with the product and the wall street banksters complaining about Twitter's growth remind me of whiny air travelers as described by Louis CK. As he might say about Twitter, people! Twitter is a technological marvel! Over three hundred MILLION people connected all over the world in real time! There's never been anything like it. And it is growing each month! What a wonderful world!

Theodores 11y ago

If Twitter ceased to exist, would it really matter? That is the fundamental problem with it. The world gets by perfectly fine without Twitter (and all those that 'tweet'). It is not a communication medium of record in the way that email is. I do not ask people 'did you get my tweet?' in the way I might ask people if they got my email. I never say 'I will tweet it to you' in the way I might text/skype/email someone. I know some of my colleagues and family members say great things about Twitter, but these guys commute and Twitter is just another thing they read on the journey. I actually have no clue what my sister's Twitter handle is, I have no idea what any of my current colleagues Twitter handles are either. It simply has never occurred to me that I should ask any of them how to follow them on Twitter. I don't care and neither do they. Twitter also fails the 'other people's screens test'. What is this? Well, walk through a large enough office at lunch time and see what NORMAL people have on their screens whilst working and whilst on lunch. Nobody is reading Twitter because they have to as part of what their job or out of choice in the few moments they have of 'free time'. The recently slagged off LinkedIn and the oft-criticised Facebook do pretty well on the 'other people's screens test' even if it is only the HR department that do LinkedIn. Twitter isn't even worth blocking from corporate IT networks!!! I feel that with Twitter some people have bought into the hype and personally invested time and effort into believing that hype, for them to say it is useless is not going to happen. Yes it does allow me to have a window in on the programming community I am part of, however, one 'vital' news story feed in my micro-world-of-programming stopped and life went on for me, despite not having Twitter to brief me of what I thought were important developments. RSS fulfilled this requirement beforehand, life went on when RSS stopped and life will go on when this stupid Twitter thing stops, which I hope will happen sooner rather than later. Really it is like CB radio of the 1970's.

firebones 11y ago

US YoY numbers are down--this is true. Q4 has historically been a bad growth month for them. If you're focused on MAUs, then Q4 in a non-election year is going to be bad. It's like "peak boring Twitter". Everyone is rocking Amazon and the online retailers. There are no new TV series or movies dropping. Bowl season hasn't started. World Cup 2014 (Men) and 2015 (Women) are past. Granted, the US annual YoY numbers aren't good, but: * International is up 11%. * 2016 is an election year. * And there are Olympics this year. * And Q1 is historically the strongest growth month. I kind of think that if you're strictly MAU-focused, it's not a bad time to get in. That said: * I have noticed casual users dropping off their interaction volume based on my puny timeline. * I attribute some of that not to anything competitive, but to the economy picking up and everyone being so freaking busy. More lurking, less of a need to self-validate. Call it social proof fatigue. (I really suspect this is the canary in the coal mine for Facebook engagement.) * The sharp divide between folks who claim to "get" Twitter and those who claim to "don't get" Twitter is sharpening. Rather than seeing this as a negative, I see this as a bifurcation that can be studied and exploited. Twitter still has a unique and important niche. There are so many ways they can innovate around this niche without destroying it. My take: * Twitter search is an unexploited global resource. * Buffing up search and offering it orthogonally to the Twitter user experience is a HUGE potential upside that is untapped. They can monetize the hell out of that and not screw up the experience! Why limit engagement with their data flow to the timeline! I'd gladly accept more ads in a search than in my timeline. * Restating that: content creators--the people who tweet--low barrier to entry. Market search and Moments in a broader way. The pulse of the country. You can laden that with the ads. Those are the MAUs you want. They'll be fine. This feels more like a narrative created by competitors or potential acquirers to get them on the cheap before they can execute on their core value. Maybe they're run by weak-willed dullards who will cave because they can't see it, and it will be Google or someone else with a lick of sense that leads them to their promise, or who acquires them to kill them off.

davidpatrick 11y ago

There is such a unique opportunity Twitter has attempted but not fully captured with Moments. When big events happen, people take to Twitter. With an aggregate of Periscope, Vine, and Twitter, we could have interactive LIVE events. Tune in on your phone, and don't just join the conversation, be part of the event. Unfortunately, Moments feels too static. They hand pick some decent tweets and there you go... Give me the car chase feeling of the 1990s! Where is a white bronco when you need one...

HappyTypist 11y ago
Twitter seems to advertise to possibly "offensive" UGC to make its platform shine. It's not an invalid consideration, but I feel they're overdoing it. When I search a hashtag, I want to see what people are talking about. I don't want to see what CNN or HuffPost is tweeting about. Because I'd to to Google for that. Twitter needs an automatic curation / reputation system, auto language filtering, and then a greater focus on the tweet firehose like you said. Why their product team doesn't grasp this is beyond me.

reality_czech 11y ago

I never used Twitter because the product's name implicitly refers to its users as twits (a characterization which is usually accurate.)