6 ms·

> Since the anti-gun lobby cannot outlaw them completely they tack on automatic sentence multipliers I rarely hear anyone say they want to outlaw guns complete

> Since the anti-gun lobby cannot outlaw them completely they tack on automatic sentence multipliers I rarely hear anyone say they want to outlaw guns completely, but perhaps that was meant as hyperbole? In any case, do you have some evidence that the multipliers were a reaction to difficulties in regulating guns? Most Americans believe guns should be regulated more stringently; I would guess that they believe these laws are just, not a political trick. Also, at least sometimes American law more stringently punishes crimes committed with any weapon, guns or otherwise, than crimes committed without one.

gozur88 11y ago
>Most Americans believe guns should be regulated more stringently... I don't see any evidence this is true on a national basis. The answer to this kind of question depends almost entirely on how you ask it. Most states seem to be moving in the other direction, loosening restrictions on where and when you can carry a gun legally.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > I don't see any evidence this is true on a national basis. Here's a long list of survey results. It's not 100% in one direction or other, but the overall results are clear. http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm > Most states seem to be moving in the other direction I agree, but that may reflect the efforts of special interests and not most Americans.
  - adventured 11y ago
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx In the early 1990s, ~70% believed gun laws should be more strict. Today it's ~55%. It's unchanged from ten years ago. It's extremely clear that American's aren't, and haven't been, in a hurry to further restrict guns in any major way.
    - vacri 11y ago
      55% who want it to be more strict is still more than the 45% who don't want it so or are undecided. If this were a voting matter, picking up 15 percentage points means nothing if it still doesn't take you past your opponent's percentage.
      - logfromblammo 11y ago
        And the whole point of a constitutionally limited republic is so that 55% cannot dictate to the other 45% unless they can successfully argue that what they want is right rather than merely popular. You get the same number of votes every election, regardless of how many facts you know or opinions you hold. We really don't want to live in a society where 51 idiots can overrule 49 geniuses. (Insert insult against congresspersons here.) The polling numbers only tell the more spineless representatives how much risk they will take with regard to reelection if they choose to act with due consideration of all parties' interests rather than pander to their base or log-roll with their peers.
  - refurb 11y ago
    special interests and not most Americans "Special interests" being the 45% of Americans who don't want stricter gun control? I wouldn't call those people a "special interest group".
    - hackuser 11y ago
      > the 45% of Americans who don't want stricter gun control? I wouldn't call those people a "special interest group". I agree, but I don't think state legislatures' actions are very responsive to public opinion: 1) Very few citizens vote in state legislative elections or pay attention to what happens in their state capitals (for example, how many people reading this can even name their state legislators?), and 2) because gerrymandering makes many districts guranteed wins for one party, few legislators' seats are at risk. In the end, the political parties decide who gets what seat and in many cases I think they are heavily influenced by special interests. Many bills in state legislatures are written by lobbyists, in fact. Look up ALEC, for example, or in this case the NRA.
  - 15155 11y ago
    Which special interests are those?
  - gozur88 11y ago
    How skewed are those polls by high-population states like New York and California?
    - hga 11y ago
      Thing is, most high population states are "pro-gun" if you score that as having a shall issue concealed carry regime. If for no other reason than that they total 43, and out of the 7 restrictive states, only those two are "high population", the others being Hawaii (40th in population), Maryland (19th, ~1/3 of NY), Massachusetts (15th, ditto), New Jersey (11th, ~1/2 of NY), Rhode Island sort of (43rd). And you have to go down to 29th ranked Connecticut before you get to a de facto shall issue state. California and Massachusetts are also de facto shall issue in many counties/towns, although obviously not most of the high population ones.
xiaoma 11y ago
The long term trends have been overwhelmingly in the direction of more support for gun rights, not fewer. This is one of those topics where US preferences and those of HN (which has drawn a more and more international audience over the years) have been moving in opposite directions. http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ABCWashPostPoll_BanningAssaultWeapons_1216.png http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ABCWashPostPoll_Banning... http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/epl1vcqs5uaurvf2hveofg.png http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Prod...
- hackuser 11y ago
  > This is one of those topics where US preferences and those of HN ... have been moving in opposite directions. I'm not sure I agree. Many posts that even mention simple facts (not arguments) that might be harmful to the proliferation of guns get immediate arguments and voted down. [EDIT: For example, my post above is down to -2.] (See my post below for some more polls that might interest you.)
anonymoushn 11y ago
In the Bay Area, where I live, guns are completely illegal to carry outside of your my house unless I am a celebrity or have a residence elsewhere in California where I can actually get a license issued.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

gozur88 11y ago

>Most Americans believe guns should be regulated more stringently... I don't see any evidence this is true on a national basis. The answer to this kind of question depends almost entirely on how you ask it. Most states seem to be moving in the other direction, loosening restrictions on where and when you can carry a gun legally.

hackuser 11y ago
> I don't see any evidence this is true on a national basis. Here's a long list of survey results. It's not 100% in one direction or other, but the overall results are clear. http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm > Most states seem to be moving in the other direction I agree, but that may reflect the efforts of special interests and not most Americans.
- adventured 11y ago
  http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx In the early 1990s, ~70% believed gun laws should be more strict. Today it's ~55%. It's unchanged from ten years ago. It's extremely clear that American's aren't, and haven't been, in a hurry to further restrict guns in any major way.
  - vacri 11y ago
    55% who want it to be more strict is still more than the 45% who don't want it so or are undecided. If this were a voting matter, picking up 15 percentage points means nothing if it still doesn't take you past your opponent's percentage.
    - logfromblammo 11y ago
      And the whole point of a constitutionally limited republic is so that 55% cannot dictate to the other 45% unless they can successfully argue that what they want is right rather than merely popular. You get the same number of votes every election, regardless of how many facts you know or opinions you hold. We really don't want to live in a society where 51 idiots can overrule 49 geniuses. (Insert insult against congresspersons here.) The polling numbers only tell the more spineless representatives how much risk they will take with regard to reelection if they choose to act with due consideration of all parties' interests rather than pander to their base or log-roll with their peers.
- refurb 11y ago
  special interests and not most Americans "Special interests" being the 45% of Americans who don't want stricter gun control? I wouldn't call those people a "special interest group".
  - hackuser 11y ago
    > the 45% of Americans who don't want stricter gun control? I wouldn't call those people a "special interest group". I agree, but I don't think state legislatures' actions are very responsive to public opinion: 1) Very few citizens vote in state legislative elections or pay attention to what happens in their state capitals (for example, how many people reading this can even name their state legislators?), and 2) because gerrymandering makes many districts guranteed wins for one party, few legislators' seats are at risk. In the end, the political parties decide who gets what seat and in many cases I think they are heavily influenced by special interests. Many bills in state legislatures are written by lobbyists, in fact. Look up ALEC, for example, or in this case the NRA.
- 15155 11y ago
  Which special interests are those?
- gozur88 11y ago
  How skewed are those polls by high-population states like New York and California?
  - hga 11y ago
    Thing is, most high population states are "pro-gun" if you score that as having a shall issue concealed carry regime. If for no other reason than that they total 43, and out of the 7 restrictive states, only those two are "high population", the others being Hawaii (40th in population), Maryland (19th, ~1/3 of NY), Massachusetts (15th, ditto), New Jersey (11th, ~1/2 of NY), Rhode Island sort of (43rd). And you have to go down to 29th ranked Connecticut before you get to a de facto shall issue state. California and Massachusetts are also de facto shall issue in many counties/towns, although obviously not most of the high population ones.

xiaoma 11y ago

The long term trends have been overwhelmingly in the direction of more support for gun rights, not fewer. This is one of those topics where US preferences and those of HN (which has drawn a more and more international audience over the years) have been moving in opposite directions. http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ABCWashPostPoll_BanningAssaultWeapons_1216.png http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ABCWashPostPoll_Banning... http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/epl1vcqs5uaurvf2hveofg.png http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Prod...

hackuser 11y ago
> This is one of those topics where US preferences and those of HN ... have been moving in opposite directions. I'm not sure I agree. Many posts that even mention simple facts (not arguments) that might be harmful to the proliferation of guns get immediate arguments and voted down. [EDIT: For example, my post above is down to -2.] (See my post below for some more polls that might interest you.)

anonymoushn 11y ago

In the Bay Area, where I live, guns are completely illegal to carry outside of your my house unless I am a celebrity or have a residence elsewhere in California where I can actually get a license issued.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]