5 ms·

Nassim Taleb taught me that the absence of known danger is not the same as safety. Repeat that to yourself the next time you read your cities water report. It'

by dmm 11y ago

Nassim Taleb taught me that the absence of known danger is not the same as safety. Repeat that to yourself the next time you read your cities water report. It's not "I know my water is safe" it's "I know I don't face these specific dangers. What else could be in the water that they don't test for?" Look into reverse osmosis.

overcast 11y ago
Drinking distilled water is not a good idea, which is basically what reverse osmosis gives you stripping out essential minerals. It's also an incredibly wasteful 4:1 process. Look into three stage filtering, that's all you need.
- lzlarryli 11y ago
  That does not help with hard water, which I found is a big problem in midwest. RO is more or less the only reasonably cheap way to reduce TDS.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Softening water with sodium or potassium also works (to resolve hard water). Its an ion exchange process.
- davideous 11y ago
  We have an reverse osmosis unit that has a "remineralizer," which adds back in minerals. It's basically a filter canister with minerals in it, which mineral-free RO water dissolves.
- ohthanks 11y ago
  Carbon filtration will not remove dissolved solids (lead, heavy metals) without added ion-exchange resins. RO is generally the most effective broad spectrum treatment method for drinking water. The mineral issue is pretty much bunk, if the lack of trace minerals in your water is a concern you need to see a doctor. Food is your body's preferred source of minerals, you have to drink a lot to have much effect on your daily mineral intake. The waste water is real, 4 to 1 is about average, it can be improved but it's pretty unavoidable in the process. They are water using appliances, we use 20-40 gallons of water to wash a load of clothes and most people don't think twice about it.
  - iofj 11y ago
    You will notice the taste difference though.
    - ohthanks 11y ago
      You will for sure, I actually like it but not everyone does. You can remineralize and change the taste without too much trouble. I would avoid any other claims made for that process but it does usually improve the taste. Straight RO water is not great for coffee or tea as well.
      - IndianAstronaut 11y ago
        Where does the average person find RO water?
        ketralnis 11y ago
        Any drug store will have distilled water
        ngoede 11y ago
        Some grocery stores and walmart's have RO water machines outside their stores also. However, if you choose to use those it would be good to invest in a tester as they do not always change the filters on schedule.
        HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
        Go to your local aquarium/tropical fish dealer and ask. They'll be able to list pretty much all the providers within a reasonable driving range. Also lots of cities/towns have RO water providers that will sell anywhere from single gallons to thousands. source: used to be a marine aquarium hobbyist and bought thousands of gallons of RO water to make seawater.
    - elijahparker 11y ago
      I use RO with a mineralization filter stage and absolutely love the taste of the water. I'm using the 7-stage RO system by iSpring.
- rickdale 11y ago
  I took a nutrition course given by a former top tennis pro. It was awesome. He recommended a reverse osmosis setup where you add alkalinity to the water. Celtic sea salt, lemon, apple cider vinegar, baking soda, active h2, etc,... not all at once necessarily but thats the protocol I eventually setup at my home.
  - Scoundreller 11y ago
    What evidence was provided? Or was it just "I sported good, so do what I do."?
  - prewett 11y ago
    I'm guessing that lemon and vinegar are not effective at adding alkalinity, seeing as how they are acids...
    - samcheng 11y ago
      I'm sure he meant total alkalinity, which is a measure of buffering ability (ability to resist changes to pH). http://www.vanislewater.com/what-total-alkalinity-swimming-pool-maintenance http://www.vanislewater.com/what-total-alkalinity-swimming-p...
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  This is a rather ridiculous myth, in the same tradition as moon-landing denial or Korean fan death. You get minerals from food, not water. You (presumably) have kidneys and other organs that maintain the mineral balance in your body. A few micrograms more or less in your water isn't going to make much difference.
  - matthewbauer 11y ago
    I hardly think it's a myth. Human bodies aren't as simple as you're suggesting. It's a complex process but no water found in the natural world is going to be pure H2O so it makes since to be cautious of water that is going to be so different from nature. From the WHO report[1] on water quality: "Sufficient evidence is now available to confirm the health consequences from drinking water deficient in calcium or magnesium. Many studies show that higher water magnesium is related to decreased risks for CVD and especially for sudden death from CVD. This relationship has been independently described in epidemiological studies with different study designs, performed in different areas, different populations, and at different times. The consistent epidemiological observations are supported by the data from autopsy, clinical, and animal studies. Biological plausibility for a protective effect of magnesium is substantial, but the specificity is less evident due to the multifactorial aetiology of CVD." [1]: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf#page=11 http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - CamperBob2 11y ago
      There are two completely-unrelated assertions in that paragraph. I believe one of them -- that dietary Ca and Mg are important -- but not the part about water being an important source of either. The numbers simply make no sense.
- colordrops 11y ago
  You can get an RO system with a permeate pump that brings the ratio to 1:1, and a remineralization filter at the end. Even with a ratio of 4:1, avoiding a couple showers or one steak a month would be enough to make up for it for a normal family. Most water usage in a typical household is not from drinking water.
pdkl95 11y ago
> the absence of known danger is not the same as safety. Feynman had some interesting comments on this problem regarding NASA's "it worked ok last time" approach to risk assessment before the Challenger Disaster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpDg7MjHps#t=150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpDg7MjHps#t=150
baobabaobab 11y ago
Look at how the plastics industry handled the scientific evidence that Bisphenol-A affects development. They switched to closely related chemicals with less data available, Bisphenol-B, Bisphenol-S. Unsurprisingly, studies are now finding that exposure to these chemicals has similar effects. I suppose we'll ban those now too, and we can see we can test some other plasticizer out on a few billion people.

by dmm 11y ago

overcast 11y ago

Drinking distilled water is not a good idea, which is basically what reverse osmosis gives you stripping out essential minerals. It's also an incredibly wasteful 4:1 process. Look into three stage filtering, that's all you need.

lzlarryli 11y ago
That does not help with hard water, which I found is a big problem in midwest. RO is more or less the only reasonably cheap way to reduce TDS.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Softening water with sodium or potassium also works (to resolve hard water). Its an ion exchange process.
davideous 11y ago
We have an reverse osmosis unit that has a "remineralizer," which adds back in minerals. It's basically a filter canister with minerals in it, which mineral-free RO water dissolves.
ohthanks 11y ago
Carbon filtration will not remove dissolved solids (lead, heavy metals) without added ion-exchange resins. RO is generally the most effective broad spectrum treatment method for drinking water. The mineral issue is pretty much bunk, if the lack of trace minerals in your water is a concern you need to see a doctor. Food is your body's preferred source of minerals, you have to drink a lot to have much effect on your daily mineral intake. The waste water is real, 4 to 1 is about average, it can be improved but it's pretty unavoidable in the process. They are water using appliances, we use 20-40 gallons of water to wash a load of clothes and most people don't think twice about it.
- iofj 11y ago
  You will notice the taste difference though.
  - ohthanks 11y ago
    You will for sure, I actually like it but not everyone does. You can remineralize and change the taste without too much trouble. I would avoid any other claims made for that process but it does usually improve the taste. Straight RO water is not great for coffee or tea as well.
    - IndianAstronaut 11y ago
      Where does the average person find RO water?
      - ketralnis 11y ago
        Any drug store will have distilled water
      - ngoede 11y ago
        Some grocery stores and walmart's have RO water machines outside their stores also. However, if you choose to use those it would be good to invest in a tester as they do not always change the filters on schedule.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
        Go to your local aquarium/tropical fish dealer and ask. They'll be able to list pretty much all the providers within a reasonable driving range. Also lots of cities/towns have RO water providers that will sell anywhere from single gallons to thousands. source: used to be a marine aquarium hobbyist and bought thousands of gallons of RO water to make seawater.
  - elijahparker 11y ago
    I use RO with a mineralization filter stage and absolutely love the taste of the water. I'm using the 7-stage RO system by iSpring.
rickdale 11y ago
I took a nutrition course given by a former top tennis pro. It was awesome. He recommended a reverse osmosis setup where you add alkalinity to the water. Celtic sea salt, lemon, apple cider vinegar, baking soda, active h2, etc,... not all at once necessarily but thats the protocol I eventually setup at my home.
- Scoundreller 11y ago
  What evidence was provided? Or was it just "I sported good, so do what I do."?
- prewett 11y ago
  I'm guessing that lemon and vinegar are not effective at adding alkalinity, seeing as how they are acids...
  - samcheng 11y ago
    I'm sure he meant total alkalinity, which is a measure of buffering ability (ability to resist changes to pH). http://www.vanislewater.com/what-total-alkalinity-swimming-pool-maintenance http://www.vanislewater.com/what-total-alkalinity-swimming-p...
CamperBob2 11y ago
This is a rather ridiculous myth, in the same tradition as moon-landing denial or Korean fan death. You get minerals from food, not water. You (presumably) have kidneys and other organs that maintain the mineral balance in your body. A few micrograms more or less in your water isn't going to make much difference.
- matthewbauer 11y ago
  I hardly think it's a myth. Human bodies aren't as simple as you're suggesting. It's a complex process but no water found in the natural world is going to be pure H2O so it makes since to be cautious of water that is going to be so different from nature. From the WHO report[1] on water quality: "Sufficient evidence is now available to confirm the health consequences from drinking water deficient in calcium or magnesium. Many studies show that higher water magnesium is related to decreased risks for CVD and especially for sudden death from CVD. This relationship has been independently described in epidemiological studies with different study designs, performed in different areas, different populations, and at different times. The consistent epidemiological observations are supported by the data from autopsy, clinical, and animal studies. Biological plausibility for a protective effect of magnesium is substantial, but the specificity is less evident due to the multifactorial aetiology of CVD." [1]: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf#page=11 http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - CamperBob2 11y ago
    There are two completely-unrelated assertions in that paragraph. I believe one of them -- that dietary Ca and Mg are important -- but not the part about water being an important source of either. The numbers simply make no sense.
colordrops 11y ago
You can get an RO system with a permeate pump that brings the ratio to 1:1, and a remineralization filter at the end. Even with a ratio of 4:1, avoiding a couple showers or one steak a month would be enough to make up for it for a normal family. Most water usage in a typical household is not from drinking water.

pdkl95 11y ago

> the absence of known danger is not the same as safety. Feynman had some interesting comments on this problem regarding NASA's "it worked ok last time" approach to risk assessment before the Challenger Disaster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpDg7MjHps#t=150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpDg7MjHps#t=150

baobabaobab 11y ago

Look at how the plastics industry handled the scientific evidence that Bisphenol-A affects development. They switched to closely related chemicals with less data available, Bisphenol-B, Bisphenol-S. Unsurprisingly, studies are now finding that exposure to these chemicals has similar effects. I suppose we'll ban those now too, and we can see we can test some other plasticizer out on a few billion people.