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> From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. I think the main problem is not the application software (aside from iTunes and Apple Maps

> From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. I think the main problem is not the application software (aside from iTunes and Apple Maps) - the main problem is the OS level software. During the "golden age" of apple, apps would just work. Didn't matter if it you were using Apple-provided software or "better" 3rd party stuff - crashing, lagging, stuttering was minimal. Now, many users are seeing much more lag, beach balling, and kernel panicking than before, across all of their applications. [1] Combine this with some poor decision making in the UX/UI department of certain Apple apps and you get a lot of people who are unhappy with their entire software stack. But the app is the closest piece of software to them, so instinctively it makes more sense to blame declining app quality, when it's actually more a function of OS stability. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071

camillomiller 11y ago
Really? This sounds way too empirical... And: have you ever used the first versions of OS X? Have you ever heard about MobileMe?
- roymurdock 11y ago
  My thoughts after reading through this thread from 5 days ago on Apple's declining software quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071 I had actually never heard of MobileMe before reading that thread...somehow I was busy/oblivious enough not to have ever used it.
samastur 11y ago
When was this golden age? I've been a Mac user for about 10 years and it was never better than now, probably the opposite. Every edition had bunch of bugs I hated. Before then I regularly tested Mac for local computer magazine and it didn't look better either. I even managed to freeze Mac OSX 10.1 with first mouse click when it arrived in our lab. Before then we had lots of fun looking at ways you could hang by that time absurdly obsolete old Mac OS....
- roymurdock 11y ago
  My experience with the MBP + iPod Touch/iPhone since 2009. Using apps like iTunes, Final Cut Pro, iMovie, Garage Band, and Logic Pro. So the golden age for me has been 2009-2015 from Snow Leopard -> Mountain Lion (trailing off steeply w/ El Capitan) and from iOS 1 - 7, w/ iOS 8, 9 introducing issues.
  - wainstead 11y ago
    I'll second this. I started with the beta of OS X (2000?) after several years with Red Hat, and the period of Snow Leopard through Mountain Lion was the best. Especially Snow Leopard. I recently reinstalled it on an old Mac Mini and a 2006 MacBook Pro and was amazed how fast it was compared to Mountain Lion on a 2011 MBP. I rue the days I upgraded my iPhone and iPad to ios9. Both are slugs now and they don't sync with Messages on the MBP anymore.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I have a feeling you have new Apple products. I have a three year old MacBook, and I believe, a four year old Ipad2. I want to believe it was just the iPad and too much JavaScript, but my laptop is not what I expect from a three year laptop. That wheel is spinning way too much. Chrome brings it to unusuable, but figured it was my fault. I only have 4 gigs. Actually, I though 4 gigs would be enough? I do not believe in buying a new computer every two years. I always though if an evil dictator ran Apple, they could force us to by new product, but they would have to do it sly. Just enough wheel spinning, to make us buy. If Apple does that; I'm gone forever. Actually, I've been done with new Apple products for awhile. I will just repair my older products. I still believe in the company though. I hope they don't get cute?
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    > I do not believe in buying a new computer every two years. It wouldn't help anyway, because that damn ball spins even on new computers. I keep getting told I'm "doing too much". Apparently a $2500 laptop should be confined to no more than a handful of concurrent Apple-approved applications and nothing more... ? (and even then, you'll still get those beach balls).
bandushrew 11y ago
"During the "golden age" of apple, apps would just work." nope. Ive been using apple software for 20 years. apple software has ALWAYS been crap. its just also been less crap than the opposition. hell, before OS X, a crashed app would force you to restart the entire computer.... I still remember long afternoons debugging a CodeWarrior application, and having to restart after every successful replication of the problem...
- pjmlp 11y ago
  You just reminded me of the time when IIS extensions (ISAPI) executed in kernel space and I was tracking down a bug...
ocean3 11y ago
The last 2 versions are the worst for old systems. Before Yosemite beach ball was a rarity. Now its a daily occurrence.I have tested El Captiano on newer systems and its silky smooth. They are kind of forcing me to upgrade. But this experience has made be wary of buying Apple products.

camillomiller 11y ago

Really? This sounds way too empirical... And: have you ever used the first versions of OS X? Have you ever heard about MobileMe?

roymurdock 11y ago
My thoughts after reading through this thread from 5 days ago on Apple's declining software quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11034071 I had actually never heard of MobileMe before reading that thread...somehow I was busy/oblivious enough not to have ever used it.

samastur 11y ago

When was this golden age? I've been a Mac user for about 10 years and it was never better than now, probably the opposite. Every edition had bunch of bugs I hated. Before then I regularly tested Mac for local computer magazine and it didn't look better either. I even managed to freeze Mac OSX 10.1 with first mouse click when it arrived in our lab. Before then we had lots of fun looking at ways you could hang by that time absurdly obsolete old Mac OS....

roymurdock 11y ago
My experience with the MBP + iPod Touch/iPhone since 2009. Using apps like iTunes, Final Cut Pro, iMovie, Garage Band, and Logic Pro. So the golden age for me has been 2009-2015 from Snow Leopard -> Mountain Lion (trailing off steeply w/ El Capitan) and from iOS 1 - 7, w/ iOS 8, 9 introducing issues.
- wainstead 11y ago
  I'll second this. I started with the beta of OS X (2000?) after several years with Red Hat, and the period of Snow Leopard through Mountain Lion was the best. Especially Snow Leopard. I recently reinstalled it on an old Mac Mini and a 2006 MacBook Pro and was amazed how fast it was compared to Mountain Lion on a 2011 MBP. I rue the days I upgraded my iPhone and iPad to ios9. Both are slugs now and they don't sync with Messages on the MBP anymore.
marincounty 11y ago
I have a feeling you have new Apple products. I have a three year old MacBook, and I believe, a four year old Ipad2. I want to believe it was just the iPad and too much JavaScript, but my laptop is not what I expect from a three year laptop. That wheel is spinning way too much. Chrome brings it to unusuable, but figured it was my fault. I only have 4 gigs. Actually, I though 4 gigs would be enough? I do not believe in buying a new computer every two years. I always though if an evil dictator ran Apple, they could force us to by new product, but they would have to do it sly. Just enough wheel spinning, to make us buy. If Apple does that; I'm gone forever. Actually, I've been done with new Apple products for awhile. I will just repair my older products. I still believe in the company though. I hope they don't get cute?
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  > I do not believe in buying a new computer every two years. It wouldn't help anyway, because that damn ball spins even on new computers. I keep getting told I'm "doing too much". Apparently a $2500 laptop should be confined to no more than a handful of concurrent Apple-approved applications and nothing more... ? (and even then, you'll still get those beach balls).

bandushrew 11y ago

"During the "golden age" of apple, apps would just work." nope. Ive been using apple software for 20 years. apple software has ALWAYS been crap. its just also been less crap than the opposition. hell, before OS X, a crashed app would force you to restart the entire computer.... I still remember long afternoons debugging a CodeWarrior application, and having to restart after every successful replication of the problem...

pjmlp 11y ago
You just reminded me of the time when IIS extensions (ISAPI) executed in kernel space and I was tracking down a bug...

ocean3 11y ago

The last 2 versions are the worst for old systems. Before Yosemite beach ball was a rarity. Now its a daily occurrence.I have tested El Captiano on newer systems and its silky smooth. They are kind of forcing me to upgrade. But this experience has made be wary of buying Apple products.