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> It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics

> It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attracted companies that really want to make it their bread-and-butter. I have a hard time with this. Apple products tend to lock you into apple software. If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode. If you want to send email on iOS, then you are stuck with the built in mail app (at least if you click an address from Safari, or Contacts). If I ask Siri to play some music, it launches the built in Music player. So if what you say is true, then why can't I set a default app made by a third party company?

largote 11y ago
Clicking on an address defaults to fucking Apple Maps... Let me say that again: Apple Maps...
- LeoPanthera 11y ago
  Not defending the behaviour, but Apple Maps has vastly improved.
- dntrkv 11y ago
  And? I use it on a daily basis and I have no problems with it whatsoever. Sure, some people had issues with it when it launched, but like anything else in tech, those issues were way overblown.
- ino 11y ago
  FWIW for Berlin, Apple Maps draws the transport lines and stations far better and nicer. Google draws the lines very imprecisely and doesn't show you tram lines, for example.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    In my city, Google Maps has NO transit, NO satellite images since 2004, NO map data since 2010. Here maps has satellite and transit, and Apple Maps even has full 3D buildings. Following is a set of complaints I compiled last year when a Google employee asked me on reddit to post them more detail about my maps complaints. The usability of any Google product outside the US is a total disaster, and it’s a wonder how Google is able to keep any market share with their quality of service. NONE of this has been addressed since we started complaining in 2005 (!), except for one thing: that connection between two streets, which is closed with a fence, has been marked as closed. So now we have less people standing there trying to get through. > https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3559928,10.0734304,18z https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3559928,10.0734304,18z > http://imgur.com/a/DyRBT http://imgur.com/a/DyRBT > The map data on top is from the municipality, the map data on bottom from Google. > As you see, the street "Beim Bauernhaus" is completely missing, the "Kellerkate" is missing half the street, the connection between "Beim Bauernhaus" and "Kellerkate" is missing, the "Kl. Koppel" is missing parts of the street. > You currently have data from 2010 for this specific area. > The data you currently have access to from GeoBasis-DE is this: http://i.imgur.com/67TQeP8.png http://i.imgur.com/67TQeP8.png > At least the connection between Steinberg and Nienbrügger Weg is now marked as service path, until recently it was marked as street and people tried to get through there (there’s a fence making that impossible). > I won’t get too much into satellite data either, because yours is from 2004, too: > https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3530178,10.0703569,529m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3530178,10.0703569,529m/data... > https://www.here.com/?map=54.35308,10.07028,17,satellite https://www.here.com/?map=54.35308,10.07028,17,satellite > And the unavailability of Public Transit data for busses, etc. on Google Maps – which is available on Here.com – makes it unlikely that I, as a student using public transit all the time – am going to switch back.
    - level3 11y ago
      Conversely, Apple Maps still has no transit in Tokyo, rendering it completely unusable in one of the iPhone's largest markets. So don't extrapolate your city to the rest of the world.
      - Bud 11y ago
- lobster_johnson 11y ago
  Apple Maps' reputation is much worse than it deserves. These days it is better than Google Maps, in my opinion: Better map pins, better graphical performance, better rendering style, better search.
  - Crito 11y ago
    I agree that Apple Maps is currently better, but I attribute that mostly to the quality of Google Maps severely degrading in recent years. It has gotten so bad, that I've dusted off my old stand-alone GPS and keep it in my car's center console. Google Maps no longer has reliability that I can count on for a road trip.
    - charlesarthur 11y ago
      "I attribute that mostly to the quality of Google Maps severely degrading in recent years." Seriously? I can't see how that would happen unless you're living somewhere prone to dramatic road rebuilding. Or do you mean the quality of the Google Maps interface?
      - Crito 11y ago
        The interface and apps. Accurate maps aren't worth a damn, without a reliable way of accessing them.
  - stordoff 11y ago
    > Apple Maps' reputation is much worse than it deserves I haven't used it since launch, so can't comment on its current performance, but AFAICT its reputation is due to how poor it was at launch. I tried it with three locations that Google Maps handled fine (small sample I know, but enough to put me off trying it further), and had problems with all three results (my house: low-res satellite imagery; my College: wrong website address; Cambridge Union Society: correct details, but location was about 50mi out). Hopefully its now better, but that initial impression is hard to shake. Edit: initially -> initial
    - 11y ago
- humbleMouse 11y ago
  Apple Maps performs much worse for me on tmobile network in minneapolis. It takes me to wrong locations, locks up frequently, etc. I only use google maps now - much more stable and always takes me to the right place.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
nostrademons 11y ago
Oh, I certainly wish Apple would allow you to set third-party programs as defaults for integration. But unfortunately that's not my call. I just suck it up and manually launch the programs I want to use, because I like using them better.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  Were this Windows, there would be a 3rd party app...err application... that would let you change the default launch app. Why not on OSX?
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    Android lets you do that as well. There are loads of third-party launchers for Android; one of my former coworkers made several million selling one of them to Yahoo.
    - sirkneeland 11y ago
      Aviate was brilliant. Until Yahoo turned it into a less intelligent Google Now wannabe anyway. Sigh...
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    There's some confusion in the above posts. You can do all that easily in OS X (Apple's desktop OS). It's only iOS (the mobile one) that's locked down.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    OS X lets you set default apps. I had Chrome set as my default browser for a while.
    - jedmeyers 11y ago
      And it even supports handoff from iOS Safari.
    - 11y ago
rayiner 11y ago
> If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode There are like nine different versions of Emacs for OS X...
- foobarqux 11y ago
  Everyone I ask says that using Emacs for ios development is impractical. If anyone knows different please share the details.
  - jimbokun 11y ago
    Well, if you're willing to buy RubyMotion: http://www.rubymotion.com/ http://www.rubymotion.com/
  - to3m 11y ago
    Getting the code building with M-x compile should be fairly straightforward. For deployment + debugging, you could try this: https://github.com/phonegap/ios-deploy https://github.com/phonegap/ios-deploy Looks like it runs lldb itself, but perhaps with a bit of work you could get it to interact with gud-mode?
  - zimpenfish 11y ago
    I made an iOS app using vim and Lua (via wax - https://github.com/alibaba/wax https://github.com/alibaba/wax). Obviously needed the xcode toolchain for compilation and libraries but always from the CLI / scripts.
- pyre 11y ago
  I don't have any experience developing iOS or Cocoa applications, but I imagine that you need to use at least some of the XCode toolchain to make those things happen.
  - United857 11y ago
    You need the compilers/toolchain from Xcode, but there are third-party build tools, such as e.g. Buck[1] that combined with an decent editor, let you pretty much avoid the Xcode GUI for a lot of the development cycle. [1]https://buckbuild.com/ https://buckbuild.com/
matzipan 11y ago
There are plenty alternatives to XCode. AppCode is one high quality one. Setting up your own custom llvm toolchain is also an option.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Note that iOS and OS X are very different systems. On OS X, you can replace everything with your preferred software just as easily as you could in Windows or Linux.
jolux 11y ago
No, you're not locked in to using the default Mail app anymore. Since iOS 8, mail app developers can write a share sheet extension and you can access their mailer wherever you can access system share sheets. And you're not really stuck with Xcode anymore than you're stuck with Visual Studio on Windows. You can use the command line tools to do everything yourself, it's just more difficult. You can also obviously write apps in Java or even Electron, which is very popular these days. As for Siri not using your custom music player, that's unfortunate. But integration often comes at the cost of extensibility, and while Apple has the former nailed, they are still clearly working on the latter.
smoser 11y ago
I have a hard time taking anyone's opinion seriously about Xcode when they spell it with a capital 'c'. ;)
muddi900 11y ago
You can always copy the email address with a long press or a force press.
pjmlp 11y ago
> If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode. GNU/Linux and *BSD are probably the only OSes where there is no such thing as an OS vendor SDK.

largote 11y ago

Clicking on an address defaults to fucking Apple Maps... Let me say that again: Apple Maps...

LeoPanthera 11y ago
Not defending the behaviour, but Apple Maps has vastly improved.
dntrkv 11y ago
And? I use it on a daily basis and I have no problems with it whatsoever. Sure, some people had issues with it when it launched, but like anything else in tech, those issues were way overblown.
ino 11y ago
FWIW for Berlin, Apple Maps draws the transport lines and stations far better and nicer. Google draws the lines very imprecisely and doesn't show you tram lines, for example.
- kuschku 11y ago
  In my city, Google Maps has NO transit, NO satellite images since 2004, NO map data since 2010. Here maps has satellite and transit, and Apple Maps even has full 3D buildings. Following is a set of complaints I compiled last year when a Google employee asked me on reddit to post them more detail about my maps complaints. The usability of any Google product outside the US is a total disaster, and it’s a wonder how Google is able to keep any market share with their quality of service. NONE of this has been addressed since we started complaining in 2005 (!), except for one thing: that connection between two streets, which is closed with a fence, has been marked as closed. So now we have less people standing there trying to get through. > https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3559928,10.0734304,18z https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3559928,10.0734304,18z > http://imgur.com/a/DyRBT http://imgur.com/a/DyRBT > The map data on top is from the municipality, the map data on bottom from Google. > As you see, the street "Beim Bauernhaus" is completely missing, the "Kellerkate" is missing half the street, the connection between "Beim Bauernhaus" and "Kellerkate" is missing, the "Kl. Koppel" is missing parts of the street. > You currently have data from 2010 for this specific area. > The data you currently have access to from GeoBasis-DE is this: http://i.imgur.com/67TQeP8.png http://i.imgur.com/67TQeP8.png > At least the connection between Steinberg and Nienbrügger Weg is now marked as service path, until recently it was marked as street and people tried to get through there (there’s a fence making that impossible). > I won’t get too much into satellite data either, because yours is from 2004, too: > https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3530178,10.0703569,529m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3530178,10.0703569,529m/data... > https://www.here.com/?map=54.35308,10.07028,17,satellite https://www.here.com/?map=54.35308,10.07028,17,satellite > And the unavailability of Public Transit data for busses, etc. on Google Maps – which is available on Here.com – makes it unlikely that I, as a student using public transit all the time – am going to switch back.
  - level3 11y ago
    Conversely, Apple Maps still has no transit in Tokyo, rendering it completely unusable in one of the iPhone's largest markets. So don't extrapolate your city to the rest of the world.
    - Bud 11y ago
lobster_johnson 11y ago
Apple Maps' reputation is much worse than it deserves. These days it is better than Google Maps, in my opinion: Better map pins, better graphical performance, better rendering style, better search.
- Crito 11y ago
  I agree that Apple Maps is currently better, but I attribute that mostly to the quality of Google Maps severely degrading in recent years. It has gotten so bad, that I've dusted off my old stand-alone GPS and keep it in my car's center console. Google Maps no longer has reliability that I can count on for a road trip.
  - charlesarthur 11y ago
    "I attribute that mostly to the quality of Google Maps severely degrading in recent years." Seriously? I can't see how that would happen unless you're living somewhere prone to dramatic road rebuilding. Or do you mean the quality of the Google Maps interface?
    - Crito 11y ago
      The interface and apps. Accurate maps aren't worth a damn, without a reliable way of accessing them.
- stordoff 11y ago
  > Apple Maps' reputation is much worse than it deserves I haven't used it since launch, so can't comment on its current performance, but AFAICT its reputation is due to how poor it was at launch. I tried it with three locations that Google Maps handled fine (small sample I know, but enough to put me off trying it further), and had problems with all three results (my house: low-res satellite imagery; my College: wrong website address; Cambridge Union Society: correct details, but location was about 50mi out). Hopefully its now better, but that initial impression is hard to shake. Edit: initially -> initial
  - 11y ago
humbleMouse 11y ago
Apple Maps performs much worse for me on tmobile network in minneapolis. It takes me to wrong locations, locks up frequently, etc. I only use google maps now - much more stable and always takes me to the right place.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

nostrademons 11y ago

Oh, I certainly wish Apple would allow you to set third-party programs as defaults for integration. But unfortunately that's not my call. I just suck it up and manually launch the programs I want to use, because I like using them better.

stephengillie 11y ago
Were this Windows, there would be a 3rd party app...err application... that would let you change the default launch app. Why not on OSX?
- nostrademons 11y ago
  Android lets you do that as well. There are loads of third-party launchers for Android; one of my former coworkers made several million selling one of them to Yahoo.
  - sirkneeland 11y ago
    Aviate was brilliant. Until Yahoo turned it into a less intelligent Google Now wannabe anyway. Sigh...
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  There's some confusion in the above posts. You can do all that easily in OS X (Apple's desktop OS). It's only iOS (the mobile one) that's locked down.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  OS X lets you set default apps. I had Chrome set as my default browser for a while.
  - jedmeyers 11y ago
    And it even supports handoff from iOS Safari.
  - 11y ago

rayiner 11y ago

> If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode There are like nine different versions of Emacs for OS X...

foobarqux 11y ago
Everyone I ask says that using Emacs for ios development is impractical. If anyone knows different please share the details.
- jimbokun 11y ago
  Well, if you're willing to buy RubyMotion: http://www.rubymotion.com/ http://www.rubymotion.com/
- to3m 11y ago
  Getting the code building with M-x compile should be fairly straightforward. For deployment + debugging, you could try this: https://github.com/phonegap/ios-deploy https://github.com/phonegap/ios-deploy Looks like it runs lldb itself, but perhaps with a bit of work you could get it to interact with gud-mode?
- zimpenfish 11y ago
  I made an iOS app using vim and Lua (via wax - https://github.com/alibaba/wax https://github.com/alibaba/wax). Obviously needed the xcode toolchain for compilation and libraries but always from the CLI / scripts.
pyre 11y ago
I don't have any experience developing iOS or Cocoa applications, but I imagine that you need to use at least some of the XCode toolchain to make those things happen.
- United857 11y ago
  You need the compilers/toolchain from Xcode, but there are third-party build tools, such as e.g. Buck[1] that combined with an decent editor, let you pretty much avoid the Xcode GUI for a lot of the development cycle. [1]https://buckbuild.com/ https://buckbuild.com/

matzipan 11y ago

There are plenty alternatives to XCode. AppCode is one high quality one. Setting up your own custom llvm toolchain is also an option.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

Note that iOS and OS X are very different systems. On OS X, you can replace everything with your preferred software just as easily as you could in Windows or Linux.

jolux 11y ago

No, you're not locked in to using the default Mail app anymore. Since iOS 8, mail app developers can write a share sheet extension and you can access their mailer wherever you can access system share sheets. And you're not really stuck with Xcode anymore than you're stuck with Visual Studio on Windows. You can use the command line tools to do everything yourself, it's just more difficult. You can also obviously write apps in Java or even Electron, which is very popular these days. As for Siri not using your custom music player, that's unfortunate. But integration often comes at the cost of extensibility, and while Apple has the former nailed, they are still clearly working on the latter.

smoser 11y ago

I have a hard time taking anyone's opinion seriously about Xcode when they spell it with a capital 'c'. ;)

muddi900 11y ago

You can always copy the email address with a long press or a force press.

pjmlp 11y ago

> If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode. GNU/Linux and *BSD are probably the only OSes where there is no such thing as an OS vendor SDK.