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I've worked for several startups (US and UK) where the contracts contained very broad restrictions like this non-compete. Fortunately my wife is a lawyer and ha

I've worked for several startups (US and UK) where the contracts contained very broad restrictions like this non-compete. Fortunately my wife is a lawyer and has helped me to read and red-line them, and then push back and get these sections rewritten. This is something I would NEVER have thought to do by myself, and I don't know many other tech people who do this either. I don't know the legality of these clauses, but my impression is that the companies don't really care - it's easy to put overly restrictive language into their contracts because they have little to lose out of it, as an employee is unlikely to undergo expensive future litigation to sue over it. Bottom line - there needs to be (a) some low cost support mechanism for people to be able to check whether their contracts contain anything overly broad that could hurt them later, and (b) some way of educating potential employees that they should read contracts in detail, and that they can challenge contracts and push for changes before signing them, and not to treat them as a binary sign as-is/no-sign decision.

njs12345 11y ago
Luckily, in much of Europe, overly broad non-competes aren't enforceable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Europe
- chinathrow 11y ago
  Read the article. It's not about being enforceable. It's about having a liability if someone is under such an non-compete.
  - hodgesrm 11y ago
    I did. :) The liability would not exist if the non-compete were unenforceable as it is in places like California.
    - chinathrow 11y ago
      No, even if it's unenforceable across the globe it would increase the risk of litigation. Hence a liability.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  They're largely not enforceable in the US either - non-competes are thrown out in court all the time. Enforceability is only one (small) dimension of the problem - arguably the chilling effect it has on future employers (who simply don't want the show up in court, even if they will win) is larger. The threat of litigation is often stronger than the litigation itself, especially against smaller entities. Overly broad non-competes are more a bullying tactic than they are an actual contract.
  - rhino369 11y ago
    In 45+ states some form of non-compete is legal. Other than CA, most big states allow it. Most non-compete clauses in practice are probably unenforceable (because they are too long, cover too large an area, covers too big of a market, etc). But I'd be pretty worried about one if I wasn't in California, and I'd never except it.
pc86 11y ago
> some way of educating potential employees that they should read contracts in detail I don't mean to sound overly dismissive, but isn't this just part of being an adult? Meaning, don't sign legally binding contracts that you haven't read. Don't lock yourself into a potential course of action, or waive rights to certain things (e.g. arbitration agreements), without understanding the ramifications should something go pear-shaped in the future. Some of these are sign as is or don't sign, unfortunately. My wife and I were about to buy a car maybe three months ago, and throughout the process we're signing paper documents for everything. Most of it printed off a dot matrix printer, if you can believe that. Then we get to the arbitration agreement. Handed an iPad with the agreement on it, no ability to change anything, and a signature pad to sign. I put up a fuss and said that we weren't going to sign the agreement, but eventually we had to walk away from the deal because they would not proceed without it and would not provide a paper copy we could red line at the desk.
- mikeash 11y ago
  It is part of being an adult, but many adults are deficient in adult-like things. And really, if nobody ever tells new adults stuff like this, how are they supposed to know?
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Also, while a child has little chances dealing with an adult, it's also true that an adult layman has little chances against an adult professional.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      Which is why the very notion of consenting to contracts completely suspect when one side is a larger corporation and the other side is someone with an average IQ and education. You should no more honor their contract than you would a contract between the average child and the average adult.
      - jdmichal 11y ago
hexagonc 11y ago
The non-compete agreement and employment contract at my last job was provided and signed electronically over the web. There was no opportunity to red-line any of it, although I could have printed and shown it to a lawyer. I suspect many people will be subject to these non-modifiable, digitally-signed contracts in the future.

njs12345 11y ago

Luckily, in much of Europe, overly broad non-competes aren't enforceable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Europe

chinathrow 11y ago
Read the article. It's not about being enforceable. It's about having a liability if someone is under such an non-compete.
- hodgesrm 11y ago
  I did. :) The liability would not exist if the non-compete were unenforceable as it is in places like California.
  - chinathrow 11y ago
    No, even if it's unenforceable across the globe it would increase the risk of litigation. Hence a liability.
potatolicious 11y ago
They're largely not enforceable in the US either - non-competes are thrown out in court all the time. Enforceability is only one (small) dimension of the problem - arguably the chilling effect it has on future employers (who simply don't want the show up in court, even if they will win) is larger. The threat of litigation is often stronger than the litigation itself, especially against smaller entities. Overly broad non-competes are more a bullying tactic than they are an actual contract.
- rhino369 11y ago
  In 45+ states some form of non-compete is legal. Other than CA, most big states allow it. Most non-compete clauses in practice are probably unenforceable (because they are too long, cover too large an area, covers too big of a market, etc). But I'd be pretty worried about one if I wasn't in California, and I'd never except it.

pc86 11y ago

> some way of educating potential employees that they should read contracts in detail I don't mean to sound overly dismissive, but isn't this just part of being an adult? Meaning, don't sign legally binding contracts that you haven't read. Don't lock yourself into a potential course of action, or waive rights to certain things (e.g. arbitration agreements), without understanding the ramifications should something go pear-shaped in the future. Some of these are sign as is or don't sign, unfortunately. My wife and I were about to buy a car maybe three months ago, and throughout the process we're signing paper documents for everything. Most of it printed off a dot matrix printer, if you can believe that. Then we get to the arbitration agreement. Handed an iPad with the agreement on it, no ability to change anything, and a signature pad to sign. I put up a fuss and said that we weren't going to sign the agreement, but eventually we had to walk away from the deal because they would not proceed without it and would not provide a paper copy we could red line at the desk.

mikeash 11y ago
It is part of being an adult, but many adults are deficient in adult-like things. And really, if nobody ever tells new adults stuff like this, how are they supposed to know?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Also, while a child has little chances dealing with an adult, it's also true that an adult layman has little chances against an adult professional.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Which is why the very notion of consenting to contracts completely suspect when one side is a larger corporation and the other side is someone with an average IQ and education. You should no more honor their contract than you would a contract between the average child and the average adult.
    - jdmichal 11y ago

hexagonc 11y ago

The non-compete agreement and employment contract at my last job was provided and signed electronically over the web. There was no opportunity to red-line any of it, although I could have printed and shown it to a lawyer. I suspect many people will be subject to these non-modifiable, digitally-signed contracts in the future.