10 ms·

Baltimore psychologist pioneers team using psychedelics as ‘sacred’ medicine

48 points by daddy_drank 11y ago

Scarblac 11y ago
Psychedelics are #1 on the list of things I'm really curious about, but am too scared of to ever try for real.
- enkephalin 11y ago
  what exactly are you afraid of?
- vtbg 11y ago
  Same here. I'd be afraid of "losing it".
  - chippy 11y ago
    If you consider it in terms of medicine. I would be afraid of performing any kind of surgery on myself, but I would be less afraid and ultimately trusting if a doctor did the same thing. If surgery is the wrong metaphor, how about theraphy or other forms of psychotherapy, mind change, anxiety reduction etc. In other words, don't try it. The fear of insanity is probably a good fear if people think of doing it just for fun. But if the day comes when a doctor takes you in a trip, your fear will be less, and the doctor will know how to supervise you. The key idea of this article is that research into psychedelics should be allowed and encouraged. Timothy Leary never advocated for people to try them for fun. Don't think of psychedelics as recreational things to try but as powerful medicine which needs trained professionals to administer.
  - koberstein 11y ago
    What is "it" and why should you be afraid of losing "it"?
- aparadja 11y ago
  There seems to be a lot of interest in microdosing psychedelics, which might be a good non-scary approach. I found the Tim Ferriss podcast episode about the subject quite interesting: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/03/21/james-fadiman/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/03/21/james-fadiman/
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  if nobody in your family (and you!) don't have predispositions to mental disorders, if you don't become aggressive when drunk etc. then what you can try is following: in a very comfortable setup (meaning no chance of being disturbed by non-tripping people), ideally with trusty friend who either has a lot of experience or won't use it, you can try half-dose and see how it goes. btw if you ever smoked weed, how did it work out for you? not in same ballpark, but I would call it similar style, just much more shallow.
  - kidmenot 11y ago
    Question here, even though I don't intend to do it: I recall having heard that, if you do LSD, you can have a small trip again unexpectedly even years later. That would scare the shit out of me, suppose it happens while you're driving. Is that true at all? Or is it just another myth?
    - o0o0_ooo 11y ago
      HPPD is definitely real, but I would describe that as a more or less constant experience of after-effects for weeks/months/etc. I took enough LSD and other substances to experience HPPD that steadily faded over the course of about 3 months. Once it was over though, I never randomly experienced a small trip or anything. From what I've read that idea comes from a myth that psychedelics build up in parts of the body (e.g. the spine) and can spontaneously be released. So, I wouldn't worry about it (and for what it's worth -- I'll get downvoted to hell for this -- but in the past I drove hundreds of times on psychedelics, without incident)
    - aidos 11y ago
      They call them flashbacks and I suspect there's probably a large amount of urban legend going on. Anecdotally, I know many people who have taken psychedelics and have never heard a report of a flashback. That's not to say they're not a thing. http://io9.gizmodo.com/5951972/could-you-actually-have-an-lsd-flashback-decades-taking-the-drug http://io9.gizmodo.com/5951972/could-you-actually-have-an-ls...
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
- Swizec 11y ago
  The best advice I got before trying shrooms was: Whatever happens, whatever you see or feel, remember that it's just the drugs. No matter what you feel like, it will end. It's just the drugs. Works for other drugs too. If you get scared or emotionally uncomfortable, remind yourself that it's just the drugs. Was especially handy when coming down from a combination of MDMA and coke. Not a good hangover to go through on your own.
- o0o0_ooo 11y ago
  After having done seriously heaping amounts of psychedelics, I am still not sure If I can recommend them. I don't even really know how psychedelics affected me, but I suspect they caused me to become more empathetic. I consider that to be an extremely positive aspect of their use. Despite what many will tell you, tryptamines / phenylethylamines can be addictive for a certain personality type though.
- roflchoppa 11y ago
  This is an excerpt from my 'friends' diary.. "I was scared too my first time, a bit reluctant to eat them. However I was visiting my friend on vacation, and his girlfriend offered to babysit us. She even took us to the beach and to get ice-cream (note dont eat, i threw up, part of the purge) I ended up consuming around a gram of caps and stems, which is considered to be a small dose. It took around 45-1hr to start to feel the effects of them, while the full trip lasted around 4-6 hours. The feelings toward the peak of the trip, was very familiar, but everything was new. Almost no visual distortion, sometimes waves of the feeling when you stand up too fast, but not in a nauseating way. C wanted to go to the beach, so she drove us to the gas station, where i was able to find a peach soda. Then we went to this place that was above town that had this overlook. Everything was dark, and we were standing on the edge of the cliff side on this outpost like structure. I recall the sets of waves that were constantly coming in. As well as the deep blue color of the ocean. With the clouds rolling in, we headed back to the apartment. Some people came over, but i dont recall who it was, or why they were there. We were listening to old records, debating what movie to watch. There were more events that happened, looking back on it, it was too much to recall. Over all a good experience, I slept very little that night, and woke up and started cleaning. " Also Ray Liotta in Goodfellas has no soul, you can see it in his eyes. Ciao.
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    > Also Ray Liotta in Goodfellas has no soul, you can see it in his eyes. > Ciao. What ?
    - justinpombrio 11y ago
      > What ? The movie they ended up watching was Goodfellas, and roflchoppa's ah.. friend.. saw Ray Liotta's eyes and concluded that he had no soul. At least that's my guess.
    - roflchoppa 11y ago
      He says watch the film, you'll see it.
- aschreyer 11y ago
  The most likely risk are not the majority of psychedelics themselves, but the quality of the substance you are getting as well as potency and "therapeutic" window. As they are controlled substances, what you are getting is often synthesised from reagents that are known carcinogenics and poorly purified. In many cases, it is not the real substance but a replacement or a mixture of various other chemicals that is supposed to mimic superficial effects. In addition, some psychoactive substances are active in the ug range and therefore have a high likelihood of leading to severe side effects because of overdosing. Also, the dosage window and thus the difference between hypnotic and anxiogenic/severe side effects can be in the range of mgs as well. Therefore one should be cautious if you cannot get access to them in a controlled/legal environment and certainly should not try every research chemical or analogue that appears on the internet.
- danmaz74 11y ago
  That's pretty much the same for me. Actually, I wished I did it before having all the responsibilities I have now - I really couldn't afford the consequences of a "bad trip" at the moment. Who knows, maybe in a few years...
- chippy 11y ago
  The idea is not to try it, but to get it prescribed to you as part of a supervised course of medication by a professional. The professional could be one of the researchers mentioned in the article. Psychedelics work best when they are not recreational. Timothy Leary never advocated for people to try it for fun. He wanted proper scientific studies and wanted it used in a controlled way by people who knew what they were doing.
- crispyambulance 11y ago
  Just do it if you're curious. You will need a safe, familiar environment and the company of at least one cool and responsible person who isn't on the trip. A known dose of acid would be the best choice (from a sheet that someone has tried). Stay indoors. Don't go to a movie, or rock concert, don't answer the phone. Give yourself 12 hours for the trip, and a day of recovery afterwards (you may not be able to sleep). That was the protocol in the 80's-- don't know what the kids are doing today (but probably a good idea to stay off the internet).
mbrock 11y ago
I don't want my scientists talking about "sacred knowledge." To me that points to a problem with psychedelics.
- enkephalin 11y ago
  i see it as just being a catchy title for a book about "Psychedelics and Religious Experiences".
  - mbrock 11y ago
    For a scientist, it's a very provocative title. Sacred knowledge is exactly what science isn't.
- vtbg 11y ago
  I understand your response, and think it is good (even scientific) to keep an open mind - fire was once seen as magic too.
  - mbrock 11y ago
    Yeah... back before science... I don't have an open mind about sacredness or God being scientific concepts. That doesn't mean I'm closed-minded, as psychonauts like to imply. I'm just wary about scientists veering into this mystical, religious, shamanistic stance.
    - pantalaimon 11y ago
      I think the misunderstanding is based on the use of words that are already 'loaded' with meaning, as sago pointed out quite well in another comment. The point is that those experiences are real and have always been a part of the human condition. There is nothing supernatural about this, nothing bending the realms of physics. It's all about psychology and how things 'feel', how consciousness works and how it goes beyond the single individual in a group setting. All that mystical language imho is due to a lack of better words.
- 11y ago
Margh 11y ago
I also believe psychedelics can transform lives in a hugely positive way; since my first (and not last) experience with them last year my quality of life has been constantly improving and remains at an all time high. That said I found this article extremely difficult to read because of constant references to religion and mysticism. There's a fine line between spirituality and religion and this article consistently falls on what I perceive to be the wrong side. To anybody whose interest is piqued I give to you the same analogy that was given to me: Life is like running through the underbrush of a forest, using psychedelics is like climbing a nearby tree and seeing where you would like to go.
richmarr 11y ago
I'm amazed they manage to write this article without mentioning Nixon's "most dangerous man in America", Timothy Leary... who apparently pre-dates William Richards in the therapeutic study of psychedelics. Garcia-Romeu described the model in simple terms: “Basically you give someone a really high dose and they have a really transformative experience. And you’ve prepared them for that and then after the fact, you help them integrate it and they get on with their lives.” This sounds pretty much like a re-run of the 1961 Concord Prison Experiment (but with hopefully fewer methodology issues). There's a big question mark over Leary's science in my mind, but he's a fascinating character and would add a ton of colour to this kind of story.
myire 11y ago
Psychedelics are a research area with significant untapped therapeutic potential, especially in difficult to treat diseases such as PTSD. The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is a leader in this field, with breakthrough studies on MDMA for PTSD in war veterans. For those interested in psychedelic research, check out maps.org or bibliography.maps.org.
junto 11y ago
I have had some interesting experiences, the most challenging being DMT. It worked in the following way. During our daily lives, all inputs from out senses are filtered. I imagine that the brain filters the "raw steam" because it is way to much data to consistently process effectively. I think this is why you tend to notice things that have been moved in a room, even if you might not immediately know what it was that had moved. I believe that game programmers use these kind of visual screen drawing tricks all the time. DMT gives you the ability to see the world without filters for a short period of time. At some point during that unfiltered view the brain can't take it anymore, and it reboots. Both parts of this experience are both fascinating and terrifying. When you reboot, there is no you. No ego. It takes a while for the brain to work out what you are, before who you are, and then finally what the fuck just happened! It's nickname is "the businessman's trip". There is no come down.
- throwaway458393 11y ago
  I've slowly begun to suspect that the filter and your ego are actually the same thing.
  - junto 11y ago
    That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'd never considered that.
amelius 11y ago
What I wonder about most is why people seem to have become more depressed than, say, 20 or 30 years ago. Anyway, it will take a long time before the long-term effects of these psychedelics can be determined. And that is, if a consistent result can even be shown.

48 points by daddy_drank 11y ago

Scarblac 11y ago

Psychedelics are #1 on the list of things I'm really curious about, but am too scared of to ever try for real.

enkephalin 11y ago
what exactly are you afraid of?
vtbg 11y ago
Same here. I'd be afraid of "losing it".
- chippy 11y ago
  If you consider it in terms of medicine. I would be afraid of performing any kind of surgery on myself, but I would be less afraid and ultimately trusting if a doctor did the same thing. If surgery is the wrong metaphor, how about theraphy or other forms of psychotherapy, mind change, anxiety reduction etc. In other words, don't try it. The fear of insanity is probably a good fear if people think of doing it just for fun. But if the day comes when a doctor takes you in a trip, your fear will be less, and the doctor will know how to supervise you. The key idea of this article is that research into psychedelics should be allowed and encouraged. Timothy Leary never advocated for people to try them for fun. Don't think of psychedelics as recreational things to try but as powerful medicine which needs trained professionals to administer.
- koberstein 11y ago
  What is "it" and why should you be afraid of losing "it"?
aparadja 11y ago
There seems to be a lot of interest in microdosing psychedelics, which might be a good non-scary approach. I found the Tim Ferriss podcast episode about the subject quite interesting: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/03/21/james-fadiman/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/03/21/james-fadiman/
saiya-jin 11y ago
if nobody in your family (and you!) don't have predispositions to mental disorders, if you don't become aggressive when drunk etc. then what you can try is following: in a very comfortable setup (meaning no chance of being disturbed by non-tripping people), ideally with trusty friend who either has a lot of experience or won't use it, you can try half-dose and see how it goes. btw if you ever smoked weed, how did it work out for you? not in same ballpark, but I would call it similar style, just much more shallow.
- kidmenot 11y ago
  Question here, even though I don't intend to do it: I recall having heard that, if you do LSD, you can have a small trip again unexpectedly even years later. That would scare the shit out of me, suppose it happens while you're driving. Is that true at all? Or is it just another myth?
  - o0o0_ooo 11y ago
    HPPD is definitely real, but I would describe that as a more or less constant experience of after-effects for weeks/months/etc. I took enough LSD and other substances to experience HPPD that steadily faded over the course of about 3 months. Once it was over though, I never randomly experienced a small trip or anything. From what I've read that idea comes from a myth that psychedelics build up in parts of the body (e.g. the spine) and can spontaneously be released. So, I wouldn't worry about it (and for what it's worth -- I'll get downvoted to hell for this -- but in the past I drove hundreds of times on psychedelics, without incident)
  - aidos 11y ago
    They call them flashbacks and I suspect there's probably a large amount of urban legend going on. Anecdotally, I know many people who have taken psychedelics and have never heard a report of a flashback. That's not to say they're not a thing. http://io9.gizmodo.com/5951972/could-you-actually-have-an-lsd-flashback-decades-taking-the-drug http://io9.gizmodo.com/5951972/could-you-actually-have-an-ls...
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
Swizec 11y ago
The best advice I got before trying shrooms was: Whatever happens, whatever you see or feel, remember that it's just the drugs. No matter what you feel like, it will end. It's just the drugs. Works for other drugs too. If you get scared or emotionally uncomfortable, remind yourself that it's just the drugs. Was especially handy when coming down from a combination of MDMA and coke. Not a good hangover to go through on your own.
o0o0_ooo 11y ago
After having done seriously heaping amounts of psychedelics, I am still not sure If I can recommend them. I don't even really know how psychedelics affected me, but I suspect they caused me to become more empathetic. I consider that to be an extremely positive aspect of their use. Despite what many will tell you, tryptamines / phenylethylamines can be addictive for a certain personality type though.
roflchoppa 11y ago
This is an excerpt from my 'friends' diary.. "I was scared too my first time, a bit reluctant to eat them. However I was visiting my friend on vacation, and his girlfriend offered to babysit us. She even took us to the beach and to get ice-cream (note dont eat, i threw up, part of the purge) I ended up consuming around a gram of caps and stems, which is considered to be a small dose. It took around 45-1hr to start to feel the effects of them, while the full trip lasted around 4-6 hours. The feelings toward the peak of the trip, was very familiar, but everything was new. Almost no visual distortion, sometimes waves of the feeling when you stand up too fast, but not in a nauseating way. C wanted to go to the beach, so she drove us to the gas station, where i was able to find a peach soda. Then we went to this place that was above town that had this overlook. Everything was dark, and we were standing on the edge of the cliff side on this outpost like structure. I recall the sets of waves that were constantly coming in. As well as the deep blue color of the ocean. With the clouds rolling in, we headed back to the apartment. Some people came over, but i dont recall who it was, or why they were there. We were listening to old records, debating what movie to watch. There were more events that happened, looking back on it, it was too much to recall. Over all a good experience, I slept very little that night, and woke up and started cleaning. " Also Ray Liotta in Goodfellas has no soul, you can see it in his eyes. Ciao.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  > Also Ray Liotta in Goodfellas has no soul, you can see it in his eyes. > Ciao. What ?
  - justinpombrio 11y ago
    > What ? The movie they ended up watching was Goodfellas, and roflchoppa's ah.. friend.. saw Ray Liotta's eyes and concluded that he had no soul. At least that's my guess.
  - roflchoppa 11y ago
    He says watch the film, you'll see it.
aschreyer 11y ago
The most likely risk are not the majority of psychedelics themselves, but the quality of the substance you are getting as well as potency and "therapeutic" window. As they are controlled substances, what you are getting is often synthesised from reagents that are known carcinogenics and poorly purified. In many cases, it is not the real substance but a replacement or a mixture of various other chemicals that is supposed to mimic superficial effects. In addition, some psychoactive substances are active in the ug range and therefore have a high likelihood of leading to severe side effects because of overdosing. Also, the dosage window and thus the difference between hypnotic and anxiogenic/severe side effects can be in the range of mgs as well. Therefore one should be cautious if you cannot get access to them in a controlled/legal environment and certainly should not try every research chemical or analogue that appears on the internet.
danmaz74 11y ago
That's pretty much the same for me. Actually, I wished I did it before having all the responsibilities I have now - I really couldn't afford the consequences of a "bad trip" at the moment. Who knows, maybe in a few years...
chippy 11y ago
The idea is not to try it, but to get it prescribed to you as part of a supervised course of medication by a professional. The professional could be one of the researchers mentioned in the article. Psychedelics work best when they are not recreational. Timothy Leary never advocated for people to try it for fun. He wanted proper scientific studies and wanted it used in a controlled way by people who knew what they were doing.
crispyambulance 11y ago
Just do it if you're curious. You will need a safe, familiar environment and the company of at least one cool and responsible person who isn't on the trip. A known dose of acid would be the best choice (from a sheet that someone has tried). Stay indoors. Don't go to a movie, or rock concert, don't answer the phone. Give yourself 12 hours for the trip, and a day of recovery afterwards (you may not be able to sleep). That was the protocol in the 80's-- don't know what the kids are doing today (but probably a good idea to stay off the internet).

mbrock 11y ago

I don't want my scientists talking about "sacred knowledge." To me that points to a problem with psychedelics.

enkephalin 11y ago
i see it as just being a catchy title for a book about "Psychedelics and Religious Experiences".
- mbrock 11y ago
  For a scientist, it's a very provocative title. Sacred knowledge is exactly what science isn't.
vtbg 11y ago
I understand your response, and think it is good (even scientific) to keep an open mind - fire was once seen as magic too.
- mbrock 11y ago
  Yeah... back before science... I don't have an open mind about sacredness or God being scientific concepts. That doesn't mean I'm closed-minded, as psychonauts like to imply. I'm just wary about scientists veering into this mystical, religious, shamanistic stance.
  - pantalaimon 11y ago
    I think the misunderstanding is based on the use of words that are already 'loaded' with meaning, as sago pointed out quite well in another comment. The point is that those experiences are real and have always been a part of the human condition. There is nothing supernatural about this, nothing bending the realms of physics. It's all about psychology and how things 'feel', how consciousness works and how it goes beyond the single individual in a group setting. All that mystical language imho is due to a lack of better words.
11y ago

Margh 11y ago

I also believe psychedelics can transform lives in a hugely positive way; since my first (and not last) experience with them last year my quality of life has been constantly improving and remains at an all time high. That said I found this article extremely difficult to read because of constant references to religion and mysticism. There's a fine line between spirituality and religion and this article consistently falls on what I perceive to be the wrong side. To anybody whose interest is piqued I give to you the same analogy that was given to me: Life is like running through the underbrush of a forest, using psychedelics is like climbing a nearby tree and seeing where you would like to go.

richmarr 11y ago

I'm amazed they manage to write this article without mentioning Nixon's "most dangerous man in America", Timothy Leary... who apparently pre-dates William Richards in the therapeutic study of psychedelics. Garcia-Romeu described the model in simple terms: “Basically you give someone a really high dose and they have a really transformative experience. And you’ve prepared them for that and then after the fact, you help them integrate it and they get on with their lives.” This sounds pretty much like a re-run of the 1961 Concord Prison Experiment (but with hopefully fewer methodology issues). There's a big question mark over Leary's science in my mind, but he's a fascinating character and would add a ton of colour to this kind of story.

myire 11y ago

Psychedelics are a research area with significant untapped therapeutic potential, especially in difficult to treat diseases such as PTSD. The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is a leader in this field, with breakthrough studies on MDMA for PTSD in war veterans. For those interested in psychedelic research, check out maps.org or bibliography.maps.org.

junto 11y ago

I have had some interesting experiences, the most challenging being DMT. It worked in the following way. During our daily lives, all inputs from out senses are filtered. I imagine that the brain filters the "raw steam" because it is way to much data to consistently process effectively. I think this is why you tend to notice things that have been moved in a room, even if you might not immediately know what it was that had moved. I believe that game programmers use these kind of visual screen drawing tricks all the time. DMT gives you the ability to see the world without filters for a short period of time. At some point during that unfiltered view the brain can't take it anymore, and it reboots. Both parts of this experience are both fascinating and terrifying. When you reboot, there is no you. No ego. It takes a while for the brain to work out what you are, before who you are, and then finally what the fuck just happened! It's nickname is "the businessman's trip". There is no come down.

throwaway458393 11y ago
I've slowly begun to suspect that the filter and your ego are actually the same thing.
- junto 11y ago
  That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'd never considered that.

amelius 11y ago

What I wonder about most is why people seem to have become more depressed than, say, 20 or 30 years ago. Anyway, it will take a long time before the long-term effects of these psychedelics can be determined. And that is, if a consistent result can even be shown.