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The saddest part of it all is that we were allied with Vietnam in WW2 with OSS operatives in assistance.[1] Ho Chi Minh reached out to the United States for ou

by poof131 11y ago

The saddest part of it all is that we were allied with Vietnam in WW2 with OSS operatives in assistance.[1] Ho Chi Minh reached out to the United States for our support at the end of the war. Unfortunately, the French wanted back their pride and their colonies and refused to support the Marshall plan without them. So we turned our back on a people who wanted to be independent for politics and a desire to buttress Western Europe against communism.[2] We then followed the French in after their fiasco at Dien Bien Phu to fight the spread of the communist menace. For the longest time I thought the Vietnamese were the biggest losers in this. They got their independence, but down a path closer to North Korea instead of South Korea after much loss of life. But now I think America was the biggest loser. We lost a cornerstone of our culture: military service. We killed the draft and a generation has been inoculated with the attitude military service is for poor people without other options. The military has begun to privatize and isolate itself from America. Fewer and fewer people serve. Many people serving in Iraq were paid, foreign contractors. Debate about the military is nonexistent. Everyone “supports the troops,” but the wars are either patriotic or evil, with little discussion of execution and goals. It saddens me and makes me think of Rome at the end of the Republican period. [3] [1] http://www.historynet.com/ho-chi-minh-and-the-oss.htm http://www.historynet.com/ho-chi-minh-and-the-oss.htm [2] https://books.google.com/books?id=B59ZUKeNoD4C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=france+marshall+plan+vietnam&source=bl&ots=vDtuRho66J&sig=jos6boLUTCwZiwaultjTJdg5pdI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidzoiWiebKAhUH92MKHR77BL0Q6AEILTAC#v=onepage&q=france%20marshall%20plan%20vietnam&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=B59ZUKeNoD4C&pg=PA47&lpg=P... [3] http://www.historynet.com/romes-barbarian-mercenaries.htm http://www.historynet.com/romes-barbarian-mercenaries.htm

nickff 11y ago
The draft is government-run slavery; there is no significant moral or ethical difference between conscription and slavery. Good riddance to the draft, I hope that it is gone forever.
narutouzumaki 11y ago
Exactly! Here is a telegram Ho Chi Minh sent Truman on the 28th of February, 1948. A piece of history you can touch. (well you would have to break into the archive or work there, but theoretically hehe) http://todaysdocument.tumblr.com/post/18436528466/dated-february-28th-1946-this-telegram-was-sent http://todaysdocument.tumblr.com/post/18436528466/dated-febr... Published by the national archives, it shows that Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist and independence seeker first, and Communist second (or even third) In fact, having spent time in Paris, Boston, Moscow and Hongkong working menial jobs and getting in contact with western philosophies in his youth he actually chose to quote "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" this from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in his independence speech after French occupation. The course of history might have been slightly different...
- chinhodado 11y ago
  This is one of those moments in history where we can clearly see history itself branches into different routes. Had Truman reached out to Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam wouldn't have had to spend the next 30 years in war. It's a shame, really.
Panoramix 11y ago
"The Vietnam Red Cross estimates that Agent Orange has affected 3 million people spanning three generations, including at least 150,000 children born with severe birth defects since the war ended in 1975." Sounds to me like the people of Vietnam are the worse losers in this whole tragedy. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24751351.html http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24...
vacri 11y ago
> We killed the draft and a generation has been inoculated with the attitude military service is for poor people without other options. ... Fewer and fewer people serve. The US hasn't been militarily threatened since the end of WWII, nearly four generations ago. Put the US in a realistically threatened position and watch the numbers swell. And while the personnel count is lower than it has been for a few decades, the budget is still phenomenally large. For example, the US has as many aircraft carriers as the rest of the world combined, and their smallest carrier is bigger than everyone else's bar Russia's single vehicle. Given that you have to get over giant oceans to even start to demonstrably threaten the US... Rumours of the US's impending military demise are greatly exaggerated.

by poof131 11y ago

nickff 11y ago

The draft is government-run slavery; there is no significant moral or ethical difference between conscription and slavery. Good riddance to the draft, I hope that it is gone forever.

narutouzumaki 11y ago

Exactly! Here is a telegram Ho Chi Minh sent Truman on the 28th of February, 1948. A piece of history you can touch. (well you would have to break into the archive or work there, but theoretically hehe) http://todaysdocument.tumblr.com/post/18436528466/dated-february-28th-1946-this-telegram-was-sent http://todaysdocument.tumblr.com/post/18436528466/dated-febr... Published by the national archives, it shows that Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist and independence seeker first, and Communist second (or even third) In fact, having spent time in Paris, Boston, Moscow and Hongkong working menial jobs and getting in contact with western philosophies in his youth he actually chose to quote "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" this from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in his independence speech after French occupation. The course of history might have been slightly different...

chinhodado 11y ago
This is one of those moments in history where we can clearly see history itself branches into different routes. Had Truman reached out to Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam wouldn't have had to spend the next 30 years in war. It's a shame, really.

Panoramix 11y ago

"The Vietnam Red Cross estimates that Agent Orange has affected 3 million people spanning three generations, including at least 150,000 children born with severe birth defects since the war ended in 1975." Sounds to me like the people of Vietnam are the worse losers in this whole tragedy. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24751351.html http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24...

vacri 11y ago

> We killed the draft and a generation has been inoculated with the attitude military service is for poor people without other options. ... Fewer and fewer people serve. The US hasn't been militarily threatened since the end of WWII, nearly four generations ago. Put the US in a realistically threatened position and watch the numbers swell. And while the personnel count is lower than it has been for a few decades, the budget is still phenomenally large. For example, the US has as many aircraft carriers as the rest of the world combined, and their smallest carrier is bigger than everyone else's bar Russia's single vehicle. Given that you have to get over giant oceans to even start to demonstrably threaten the US... Rumours of the US's impending military demise are greatly exaggerated.