8 ms·

This makes me sad. I thought you were being over the top about the racism but then I saw the slides in the article: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56

This makes me sad. I thought you were being over the top about the racism but then I saw the slides in the article: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008b5049-705-529/nicole%20sanchez-diversity-training2.png http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008... My first reaction is that the language of "us" vs "them", victims vs oppressors, reeks of hatred. Hatred undermines productive conversation, which undermines any attempt at building a good culture. I would have to listen to the whole presentation before I render final judgement.

TheLogothete 11y ago
So yeah... github just lost an enterprise customer. And I will be making sure they will lose more.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  For an excellent alternative, consider Gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/ https://about.gitlab.com/ They have enterprise services, or can be self-hosted.
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    We use a self hosted gitlab instance, it's the best thing we've done since I've worked there. Incredibly useful.
almostApatriot1 11y ago
Don't see what the big deal is. The slide refers to spearheading a diversity program, not the company itself. Seems intuitive to me that such a program with only white, male managers might be problematic.
- arbitraryreg 11y ago
  That is a remarkably dishonest paraphrasing. Problematic, indeed.
- malandrew 11y ago
  Your use of "only" is undeservedly generous of the attitude reflected on that slide. Furthermore, the slide actually doesn't even really address gender as a reason to disqualify someone, just race. They aren't talking about having a diverse group of people, including white males and females, leading diversity. Instead that slide near as I can tell communicates a policy of excluding white people. Furthermore, I don't understand the racist attitude that somehow white or male people are somehow less qualified to lead a diversity program. Interpersonal skills, knowledge of the myriad diversity initiatives and approaches tried elsewhere and how effective they have been, knowledge of hiring practices, knowledge of recruiting practices, knowledge of retention practices, knowledge of the law surrounding hiring, recruiting and retention practices, professional network, etc. are all the type of things that should be relevant when choosing the most qualified candidates for such a position. Discounting all these and elevating someone's race and gender to utmost importance is blatantly racist policy/attitude.
  - adamsea 11y ago
    What about experience? If nothing else (and there is else), it's reasonable to think that someone from a group which has been discriminated against may have more insight about battling systemic discrimination and racism (i.e. diversity hiring) than someone from a more privileged background (privileged in the sense of being from a majority group which was not the subject of systemic discrimination). Note that, like for any other hire, this type of personal experience is only one element involved in selecting the best fit for a role. I shouldn't have to say that last bit, but people like to think in black-and-white (pun intended) about race, sex, and class.
    - malandrew 11y ago
      Experience is valid too. Being white or male doesn't mean you don't understand discrimination because you don't have experience with it. An equally absurd corollary to "those that have experienced discrimination have unique insight into preventing discrimination" is "those that have experienced privilege have unique insight into privilege and how to dismantle it". Just because you're on one side or the other doesn't make you more qualified by experience. We need people with understanding of both sides of the coin. In other words, we need diversity with respect to experiencing privilege and discrimination to understand what is happening and how to address it. When you don't have people on the other side of the coin, racist attitudes like the ones reflected in that slide proliferate. Being white doesn't disqualify you from having experience being discriminated either. There are gay, lesbian and transgender white men, women and other gender identities. Head over to The Advocate and read some essays/blog posts from gay white males. Furthermore, discriminating white people and men from this sphere of work (or any other) gives them some similar experiences and insight into discrimination.
- rhizome 11y ago
  This thread illustrates nicely the sentiment that participation in the program is meaningless if a white person can't lead it.
  - angersock 11y ago
    Inaccurate. What this thread shows is the sentiment that, if you claim diversity is important, leaving out a group specifically to increase diversity (as opposed to, say, merely reducing their proportion in the cohort) is in fact not being intellectually consistent or honest. Don't fall into the flippant "Oh ho ho if white's aren't involved I guess it can't ever be legit" sarcastic dismissal. That's neither fair nor accurate.
malandrew 11y ago
I don't know if you even need to see the whole presentation. A few of the full sentences on that one slide are more than enough to project a strong us vs them attitude of hatred and victim versus oppressor, especially the following bullets: - "This is not work for white folks to lead" - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" This is blatantly racist language and policy.
- mjbh7k 11y ago
  - "This is not work for white folks to lead" Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" Second wave feminism, largely led by white women, often leaves out women of color. I mentioned this below, but the publishing industry is 79% white and 78% female. This has a huge impact on the types of stories that get to be published, which subsequently has real results on culture and society. - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" I mean yeah, sure, nothing super deep on that one. There should also be solidarity with white friends and colleagues, preferably ones that do a lot of listening and understand how not to take up all the space.
  - alexandercrohde 11y ago
    >>It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. How can anybody who advocates equality say no white person can lead a diversity movement? Just because somebody is white doesn't mean they aren't an oppressed minority (female, transgender, Jewish or some other oppressed group like a furry). I think we collectively need to declare it's not okay to say "people with skin color ____" cannot possibly understand Y or have an opinion on Y. To do so is institutionalized racism. edit: typo
    - rhizome 11y ago
      Who is saying they can't have an opinion?
nailer 11y ago
Not surprising, they were about to do this a little while ago: https://hacked.com/github-promotes-reverse-racism-sexism/ https://hacked.com/github-promotes-reverse-racism-sexism/
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
mnglkhn2 11y ago
Still trying to parse that slide and I am mostly baffled by the line where "(6) Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women." I know the slide needs more context, but even so, it is a very disturbing statement to make. Something is amiss and lots of explanations are needed. PS: now I am more than happy with my choice of keeping my repos on Bitbucket.
- post_break 11y ago
  Am I wrong in thinking the "white women" they are referencing to are HR or hiring managers?
DyslexicAtheist 11y ago
This is blatant racism yes. I have posted this with a mention of here name on LinkedIn and Twitter and asked her to clarify this slide. Maybe a bit of public pressure will do the trick for her to come forward.

TheLogothete 11y ago

So yeah... github just lost an enterprise customer. And I will be making sure they will lose more.

scrollaway 11y ago
For an excellent alternative, consider Gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/ https://about.gitlab.com/ They have enterprise services, or can be self-hosted.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  We use a self hosted gitlab instance, it's the best thing we've done since I've worked there. Incredibly useful.

almostApatriot1 11y ago

Don't see what the big deal is. The slide refers to spearheading a diversity program, not the company itself. Seems intuitive to me that such a program with only white, male managers might be problematic.

arbitraryreg 11y ago
That is a remarkably dishonest paraphrasing. Problematic, indeed.
malandrew 11y ago
Your use of "only" is undeservedly generous of the attitude reflected on that slide. Furthermore, the slide actually doesn't even really address gender as a reason to disqualify someone, just race. They aren't talking about having a diverse group of people, including white males and females, leading diversity. Instead that slide near as I can tell communicates a policy of excluding white people. Furthermore, I don't understand the racist attitude that somehow white or male people are somehow less qualified to lead a diversity program. Interpersonal skills, knowledge of the myriad diversity initiatives and approaches tried elsewhere and how effective they have been, knowledge of hiring practices, knowledge of recruiting practices, knowledge of retention practices, knowledge of the law surrounding hiring, recruiting and retention practices, professional network, etc. are all the type of things that should be relevant when choosing the most qualified candidates for such a position. Discounting all these and elevating someone's race and gender to utmost importance is blatantly racist policy/attitude.
- adamsea 11y ago
  What about experience? If nothing else (and there is else), it's reasonable to think that someone from a group which has been discriminated against may have more insight about battling systemic discrimination and racism (i.e. diversity hiring) than someone from a more privileged background (privileged in the sense of being from a majority group which was not the subject of systemic discrimination). Note that, like for any other hire, this type of personal experience is only one element involved in selecting the best fit for a role. I shouldn't have to say that last bit, but people like to think in black-and-white (pun intended) about race, sex, and class.
  - malandrew 11y ago
    Experience is valid too. Being white or male doesn't mean you don't understand discrimination because you don't have experience with it. An equally absurd corollary to "those that have experienced discrimination have unique insight into preventing discrimination" is "those that have experienced privilege have unique insight into privilege and how to dismantle it". Just because you're on one side or the other doesn't make you more qualified by experience. We need people with understanding of both sides of the coin. In other words, we need diversity with respect to experiencing privilege and discrimination to understand what is happening and how to address it. When you don't have people on the other side of the coin, racist attitudes like the ones reflected in that slide proliferate. Being white doesn't disqualify you from having experience being discriminated either. There are gay, lesbian and transgender white men, women and other gender identities. Head over to The Advocate and read some essays/blog posts from gay white males. Furthermore, discriminating white people and men from this sphere of work (or any other) gives them some similar experiences and insight into discrimination.
rhizome 11y ago
This thread illustrates nicely the sentiment that participation in the program is meaningless if a white person can't lead it.
- angersock 11y ago
  Inaccurate. What this thread shows is the sentiment that, if you claim diversity is important, leaving out a group specifically to increase diversity (as opposed to, say, merely reducing their proportion in the cohort) is in fact not being intellectually consistent or honest. Don't fall into the flippant "Oh ho ho if white's aren't involved I guess it can't ever be legit" sarcastic dismissal. That's neither fair nor accurate.

malandrew 11y ago

I don't know if you even need to see the whole presentation. A few of the full sentences on that one slide are more than enough to project a strong us vs them attitude of hatred and victim versus oppressor, especially the following bullets: - "This is not work for white folks to lead" - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" This is blatantly racist language and policy.

mjbh7k 11y ago
- "This is not work for white folks to lead" Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" Second wave feminism, largely led by white women, often leaves out women of color. I mentioned this below, but the publishing industry is 79% white and 78% female. This has a huge impact on the types of stories that get to be published, which subsequently has real results on culture and society. - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" I mean yeah, sure, nothing super deep on that one. There should also be solidarity with white friends and colleagues, preferably ones that do a lot of listening and understand how not to take up all the space.
- alexandercrohde 11y ago
  >>It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. How can anybody who advocates equality say no white person can lead a diversity movement? Just because somebody is white doesn't mean they aren't an oppressed minority (female, transgender, Jewish or some other oppressed group like a furry). I think we collectively need to declare it's not okay to say "people with skin color ____" cannot possibly understand Y or have an opinion on Y. To do so is institutionalized racism. edit: typo
  - rhizome 11y ago
    Who is saying they can't have an opinion?

nailer 11y ago

Not surprising, they were about to do this a little while ago: https://hacked.com/github-promotes-reverse-racism-sexism/ https://hacked.com/github-promotes-reverse-racism-sexism/

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

mnglkhn2 11y ago

Still trying to parse that slide and I am mostly baffled by the line where "(6) Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women." I know the slide needs more context, but even so, it is a very disturbing statement to make. Something is amiss and lots of explanations are needed. PS: now I am more than happy with my choice of keeping my repos on Bitbucket.

post_break 11y ago
Am I wrong in thinking the "white women" they are referencing to are HR or hiring managers?

DyslexicAtheist 11y ago

This is blatant racism yes. I have posted this with a mention of here name on LinkedIn and Twitter and asked her to clarify this slide. Maybe a bit of public pressure will do the trick for her to come forward.