8 ms·
Judicial combat between a man and a dog in 1361
- goetia303 11y agoAir Bud 1361
- iambateman 11y agoMaking a murderer season 2? Shouldn't a man with a cudgel be able to beat a dog in a duel?
- sp332 11y agoDepends on the dog. And the man. And the cudgel. Kidding aside, dogs weren't bred to be gentle house pets back then. Think something closer to a domesticated wolf.
- beachstartup 11y ago> dogs weren't bred to be gentle house pets back then dogs have been bred for all sorts of purposes since the beginning of dogs.
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- sp332 11y agoBred certainly, but not... teacup poodles, you know? This was probably some "working breed" and it sounds like it was on the large side.
- lmitchell 11y agoThe Pinterest link to the statue submitted earlier (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11049681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11049681), if it's supposed to be a depiction, makes the dog look pretty damn big by today's standards. I would not fancy my chances against it with just a cudgel... :)
- dawnbreez 11y agoDogs are both faster and better armed than men. However, the man has better reach in this case, and is (probably) trained better than the dog. It's kind of a toss-up.
- amelius 11y agoDogs have less fear, because they don't know the inevitable outcome if they lose the fight.
- dawnbreez 11y agoI wouldn't necessarily call that an advantage, or a disadvantage for that matter. The kind of person who is locked up by fear in a fight likely hasn't had enough training or experience to win the fight anyway.
- charlieflowers 11y agoI don't think it's even close. 9 times out of 10, a man with a cudgel should be destroyed by a large dog (especially one much closer to its wolf ancestry). Even now, watching my very gentle Golden Retriever have an exuberant running fit, it's clear that dogs are much more agile than humans. All it takes is one miss of that cudgel, and teeth are locked in on the human's delicate skin, cutting in with hundreds of pounds of pressure.
- marshray 11y agoBut single dog bites are rarely fatal. So you offer the dog your left arm and then cudgel him to death with your right.
- tluyben2 11y agoIf you can stand a lot of pain long enough. If the dog is determined and has jaw muscles and bones enough to crush your arm you might not be able to focus even enough through the pain to hit the dog even once. My gentle mixed breed refuge (who is roughly the same size as the dog depicted for this story) dog uses his back molars through rapidly bite through bone (and he just splits the few big dog Kongs we tried in half to get the food out) and that is when he is not angry or hungry; when angered I think the splintering of your arm would be enough to make you drop your stick in the other arm's hand.
- travmatt 11y agoI think you may overestimate how strong people are.
- SixSigma 11y agoOr clever. My associate was running from the police, had an Alsatian set upon him. He let it grab his arm then picked it up and snapped its spine over his knee and then fled. I've had a dog set on me in a street fight. It grabbed my sleeve so I ran it its owner with it attached. He fled. As for the cudgel, poor weapon on close combat. If you find yourself with a swinging weapon, use it like a spike, not a bat.
- magerleagues 11y agoI would buy a printed book of all these stories. I am also compelled to redesign their website for free.
- sydneysider 11y agoCount me in as well, it's such a nice feeling to actually find content worth reading these days.
- andrepd 11y ago> I am also compelled to redesign their website for free. I think it's fine the way it is: clean, light and straightforward
- asciimo 11y agoCharming, even.
- swayvil 11y agoThis is fantastic. We need to do things this way more often.
- dfc 11y agoDoes anyone know: If there are any pictures of "the chimney in the great hall of the chateau of Montargis"? The the name of the name of the "popular melodrama" that was based on this story?
- im1983 11y agohttps://www.pinterest.com/pin/343469909058478785/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/343469909058478785/
- coupdejarnac 11y agoHow apropos of my username here. This famous duel subverted the will of the King of France, helping to bring about the end of judicial combat: http://www.thearma.org/essays/DOTC.htm#.VrZbiHNMHqA http://www.thearma.org/essays/DOTC.htm#.VrZbiHNMHqA
- malkia 11y agoOh, I'm reminded of this (the 1st article I've read about this curious oddity that used to be the norm in the past) - http://www.slate.com/articles/life/history/2013/02/medieval_animal_trials_why_they_re_not_quite_as_crazy_as_they_sound.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/history/2013/02/medieval_...
- bbanyc 11y agoTrial by combat was only abolished in England in 1819, after the much-publicized case of Ashford v Thornton in which the defendant successfully called for it. (No combat took place - the plaintiff withdrew rather than fight the much larger defendant.)
- alricb 11y agoThat never actually happened; it's a legend that was already found in songs from the 1100s. The 1361 or 71 date is from an invented marginal comment in an edition of Montaigne's works: http://gatinais.histoire.pagesperso-orange.fr/Chien_de_Montargis.htm http://gatinais.histoire.pagesperso-orange.fr/Chien_de_Monta... Judiciary combat probably wasn't that common in the late 1300s, although it still existed.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoCould not a man with a familiar dog, perhaps a hunting animal, the property of a rival, cause it to rise against a particular person at a signal? I suspect the 'friend' of manufacturing the entire event, being the murderer himself. We have only his word on the history of the dog. He may have assumed its ownership upon the killing of the real owner; he was aware of the curious tradition of combat; he contrived a cute storey of animal loyalty to cover his vile act and misdirect attention onto another for the crime.