10 ms·

Innocent people kept getting murdered on King St (a popular bar and night life destination, as well as prostitution or at least erotic joints, and possibly some

by sqldba 11y ago

Innocent people kept getting murdered on King St (a popular bar and night life destination, as well as prostitution or at least erotic joints, and possibly some drug use.) A few years back there was a spate of "King Hits" which is when one person hits another person in the head and immediately knocks them unconscious, usually through random chance rather than any kind of skill, but meaning that person then bears the full force as their head hits the concrete and likely dies in the process. There were a whole bunch of unprovoked attacks on that street one after the other on completely random innocent people at night time. It was a national disgrace, one minute you're just Joe Blow walking with your fiancee down the street and the next you're dead. This didn't happen just once, but week after week after week and a bunch of people were dead, and the newspapers were eating it up. So the government put these laws in place to stop it, and to be fair it seems to have worked as I haven't seen anyone talk about dying on that street in the news lately. Overall though I have split feelings. On the one hand we need to get together as a society and start putting an end to people who are overly aggressive and posing a risk to the rest of us. Sorry but that's the damned truth. If you're invading homes or punching absolutely random people in the street then you're just not going to fit in with the rest of us and it's time to go. It's us or them and I don't want to be a statistic. On the other hand it's a shame that as we're all too shy to implement that kind of thing, we get laws that put innocent people in the crossfire and suck the joy out of life for the rest of us. But at least you get to feel comfortable having all those dangerous people still on the street simmering away waiting to have one drink too many and kill others... yay for liberty.

sydneysider 11y ago
This is a bit over the top, completely playing into the media hysteria. A few people got killed because some drunken, uneducated cowards hit them. This wasn't night after night. I'm also amused at the fact that the premier and all his buddies are devout christians, don't get me wrong,I have no issue with religion or the liberals, I'm long time lib voter, but I'm going to reconsider my vote in the future now though based on this new knowledge I have. What this really reeks of is corruption. The two big casino's in town (the star, and the one at barrangaroo which hasn't been built yet) are allowed to stay open 24/7, I'm 99% sure there is some preferential treatment going on, money talks, bullsh*t walks.
- dicemoose 11y ago
  `'One-punch'' assaults have cost 90 Australian lives since 2000, most in booze-fuelled bashings, a study has found.` ... `NSW had the highest number of king-hits (28), followed by Victoria and Queensland (24 cases each).` So not night after night at all, but more than a couple (this article is from 2013. http://www.smh.com.au/national/90-killed-in-singlepunch-assaults-since-2000-20131201-2yjtr.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/90-killed-in-singlepunch-assa...
  - SyneRyder 11y ago
    That's one-punch deaths, but not one-punch assaults. There's even more of those. Tucked away further in the article is a quote that says it is an occurrence every club night: "St Vincent Hospital's emergency department director, Gordian Fulde, treats four or five ''absolutely obvious'' king-hits while working at the hospital every Friday or Saturday night."
    - sydneysider 11y ago
      Instead of destroying small business and bringing in laws which detrimentally affect everyone, the state government should create examples of the offenders (the idiots that thing its cool to knock someone out), throw the book at them. strengthen the laws in a way that limits the potential for misuse, but sends a strong message to the drunken yobs, "if you do this, you're toast". These lockout laws don't fix anything, they just move the problem elsewhere, Newtown and Enmore residents are seeing more and more violence at nights now. It's an example of shifty moral knee-jerk-reaction law making, 'lets pass these heavy handed laws that give us more power, but lets frame it in a way that if you oppose it, you can be painted as supporting murders on the streets'. I completely agree with the author that NSW becoming more and more of a nanny state, i.e: not allowed to have a BBQ (which god forbid, might make a bit of smoke) if you are in a strata property, or that un-named council that has banned kites (probably because a kite could take down a plane), I know restaurant owners who follow the rules and are still terrorized by the prospect of the office of gaming and liquor deciding to shut them down. Hopefully with Malcolm leading the federal libs now, he will exert some pressure on the NSW libs to wake up and stop sabotaging the NSW economy. Australian politics (and politics in general) are just pathetically depressing.
syllogism 11y ago
It was in King's Cross, not King St. And I believe the number of people who died is two.
- joshschreuder 11y ago
  Possibly thinking of King St in Melbourne which has a number of adult theatres
- chris_wot 11y ago
  That's Kings Cross, and the figures were quick high for assaults. Kings Cross isn't even a gazetted area. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/16/assaults-in-kings-cross-and-sydney-cbd-drop-after-year-of-liquor-law-reforms http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/16/assaults-in-k... The sheer number of assaults being treated at St Vincent's Hospital caused the head of the emergency department to describe it as a warzone. Someone of that stature doesn't say this sort of thing lightly! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-26/professor-gordian-fulde-wins-senior-australian-of/7114540 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-26/professor-gordian-fuld...
jfoutz 11y ago
U.S. liquor laws are weird and vary state by state. In my state bars require an expensive license to sell booze. Bars associated with crimes, DUI, assault and battery, manslaughter get fined and ultimately the license is revoked. When a license is revoked, alcohol can no longer be served at that location, ever. Servers themselves face hefty fines when they're found to be serving someone who's drunk. Get a DUI, your waitress can be in trouble. This approach puts a lot of pressure on the seller. On the other hand, it gives the sellers a lot of leeway in deciding when enough is enough. Do people get overserved? yup. But "bad bars" tend to self destruct.
- briandear 11y ago
  Getting a liquor license in France is no picnic either. On top of that you have Kafka-esque regulations on the actual running of the business. Countries, especially socialist ones seem to not understand the value of entrepreneurship and its discouraged at every stage. In the US (where I have a bit of experience opening bars and restaurants,) the regulations can be somewhat intense in terms of health, building codes and alcohol licensing, but the process is typically standardized and generally fair. In France, much of your success depends on if the local mayor is on your side or not. I am leaving NYC out of my generalization because, from what I've heard, the A,B,C inspections can be highly corrupt: paying off someone to increase your rating; failing an inspection for seemingly innocuous stuff (a cracked floor tile in the kitchen, for example is considered a 'violation.') The market liquidity in hospitality is rather low because of huge barriers to entry. To me the concept of an alcohol license is rather Byzantine.
digbyloftus 11y ago
It seems to have worked in the sense that not being out at night is a good way to not get punched while out at night. It's basically the most invasive form of keeping safe and one people could easily have implemented all on their own.
tajen 11y ago
For those who don't know Sydney: Kings Cross is a 400m street packed with clubs. It does look shady with its erotic clubs, but short enough that you're out in a few minutes. Newspapers have a focus over night crime in Kings Cross, I've always wondered there was a political agenda or whether that was statistically abnormal. Alternatives are downtown (less dense in clubs), Oxford St (gay clubs) and farther neighbourhoods for more hipster people. As a French citizen having lived over there 3 years, I was indeed impressed that in Australia alcohol = violence, which is a new concept to me. You often see people down on the pavement cuffed by the police for a few hours until they calm down. I have no idea whether they get fined or arrested after that. My NYC friend says police is still very reasonable, and not as overeager and totalitarian as in NYC, though. So subjects might actually actually drunk and violent.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  They are. The lockout laws actually come from Newcastle, which had an even worse problem. Alcohol fueled violence has been and remains a massive problem in Australia. In fact, drinking in Australia remains a massive problem: we have some of the worst cases of binge-drinking and alcoholism rates in the world. We have a list of dangerous pubs in NSW: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/north-coast-pub-tops-list-of-most-violent-venues-in-nsw/6982534 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/north-coast-pub-tops-l...
  - MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
    Interesting, recently there was a study posted on HN that it depends on genetics whether or not someone becomes violent when drunk. Australia started as a prison colony, maybe there is a connection there?
    - angry_octet 11y ago
      Can someone please flag the above post as idiotic?
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      Only if there is a connection between a predisposition of Germans misusing eugenics research to the Second World War. You honestly are a buffoon.
barbs 11y ago
Important correction: you mean Kings Cross, not King st.
DominikR 11y ago
This is truly horrible, but I have to say that I'd rather have the government use proportionate force on bad players instead of using it on business owners to have them enforce some reactionary laws and in the process limiting the freedoms of the majority. The state has the monopoly on enforcing rules and it should not fear forcing citizens to comply. If the state for some reason cannot uphold order anymore then we are back at having survival of the fittest and might makes right on the streets. I'm not defending trigger happy police men, but in this particular case police should have been watching this area and arrest and later charge everyone that hit somebody random in the head for attempted manslaughter, even if the victim didn't suffer any enduring damage. I believe this would have sent a message.
late2part 11y ago
It's a shame they don't have laws against murder or assault that could address these issues.
hamstergene 11y ago
So there is a problem with assaults/murders on a street. Why not put cameras there to capture attacker's clearly, create super-harsh punishment for unprovoked attacking, put a policeman on every corner, etc? How imposing laws against mixing alcohol in a shaker can is possibly related?

by sqldba 11y ago

sydneysider 11y ago

This is a bit over the top, completely playing into the media hysteria. A few people got killed because some drunken, uneducated cowards hit them. This wasn't night after night. I'm also amused at the fact that the premier and all his buddies are devout christians, don't get me wrong,I have no issue with religion or the liberals, I'm long time lib voter, but I'm going to reconsider my vote in the future now though based on this new knowledge I have. What this really reeks of is corruption. The two big casino's in town (the star, and the one at barrangaroo which hasn't been built yet) are allowed to stay open 24/7, I'm 99% sure there is some preferential treatment going on, money talks, bullsh*t walks.

dicemoose 11y ago
`'One-punch'' assaults have cost 90 Australian lives since 2000, most in booze-fuelled bashings, a study has found.` ... `NSW had the highest number of king-hits (28), followed by Victoria and Queensland (24 cases each).` So not night after night at all, but more than a couple (this article is from 2013. http://www.smh.com.au/national/90-killed-in-singlepunch-assaults-since-2000-20131201-2yjtr.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/90-killed-in-singlepunch-assa...
- SyneRyder 11y ago
  That's one-punch deaths, but not one-punch assaults. There's even more of those. Tucked away further in the article is a quote that says it is an occurrence every club night: "St Vincent Hospital's emergency department director, Gordian Fulde, treats four or five ''absolutely obvious'' king-hits while working at the hospital every Friday or Saturday night."
  - sydneysider 11y ago
    Instead of destroying small business and bringing in laws which detrimentally affect everyone, the state government should create examples of the offenders (the idiots that thing its cool to knock someone out), throw the book at them. strengthen the laws in a way that limits the potential for misuse, but sends a strong message to the drunken yobs, "if you do this, you're toast". These lockout laws don't fix anything, they just move the problem elsewhere, Newtown and Enmore residents are seeing more and more violence at nights now. It's an example of shifty moral knee-jerk-reaction law making, 'lets pass these heavy handed laws that give us more power, but lets frame it in a way that if you oppose it, you can be painted as supporting murders on the streets'. I completely agree with the author that NSW becoming more and more of a nanny state, i.e: not allowed to have a BBQ (which god forbid, might make a bit of smoke) if you are in a strata property, or that un-named council that has banned kites (probably because a kite could take down a plane), I know restaurant owners who follow the rules and are still terrorized by the prospect of the office of gaming and liquor deciding to shut them down. Hopefully with Malcolm leading the federal libs now, he will exert some pressure on the NSW libs to wake up and stop sabotaging the NSW economy. Australian politics (and politics in general) are just pathetically depressing.

syllogism 11y ago

It was in King's Cross, not King St. And I believe the number of people who died is two.

joshschreuder 11y ago
Possibly thinking of King St in Melbourne which has a number of adult theatres
chris_wot 11y ago
That's Kings Cross, and the figures were quick high for assaults. Kings Cross isn't even a gazetted area. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/16/assaults-in-kings-cross-and-sydney-cbd-drop-after-year-of-liquor-law-reforms http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/16/assaults-in-k... The sheer number of assaults being treated at St Vincent's Hospital caused the head of the emergency department to describe it as a warzone. Someone of that stature doesn't say this sort of thing lightly! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-26/professor-gordian-fulde-wins-senior-australian-of/7114540 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-26/professor-gordian-fuld...

jfoutz 11y ago

U.S. liquor laws are weird and vary state by state. In my state bars require an expensive license to sell booze. Bars associated with crimes, DUI, assault and battery, manslaughter get fined and ultimately the license is revoked. When a license is revoked, alcohol can no longer be served at that location, ever. Servers themselves face hefty fines when they're found to be serving someone who's drunk. Get a DUI, your waitress can be in trouble. This approach puts a lot of pressure on the seller. On the other hand, it gives the sellers a lot of leeway in deciding when enough is enough. Do people get overserved? yup. But "bad bars" tend to self destruct.

briandear 11y ago
Getting a liquor license in France is no picnic either. On top of that you have Kafka-esque regulations on the actual running of the business. Countries, especially socialist ones seem to not understand the value of entrepreneurship and its discouraged at every stage. In the US (where I have a bit of experience opening bars and restaurants,) the regulations can be somewhat intense in terms of health, building codes and alcohol licensing, but the process is typically standardized and generally fair. In France, much of your success depends on if the local mayor is on your side or not. I am leaving NYC out of my generalization because, from what I've heard, the A,B,C inspections can be highly corrupt: paying off someone to increase your rating; failing an inspection for seemingly innocuous stuff (a cracked floor tile in the kitchen, for example is considered a 'violation.') The market liquidity in hospitality is rather low because of huge barriers to entry. To me the concept of an alcohol license is rather Byzantine.

digbyloftus 11y ago

It seems to have worked in the sense that not being out at night is a good way to not get punched while out at night. It's basically the most invasive form of keeping safe and one people could easily have implemented all on their own.

tajen 11y ago

For those who don't know Sydney: Kings Cross is a 400m street packed with clubs. It does look shady with its erotic clubs, but short enough that you're out in a few minutes. Newspapers have a focus over night crime in Kings Cross, I've always wondered there was a political agenda or whether that was statistically abnormal. Alternatives are downtown (less dense in clubs), Oxford St (gay clubs) and farther neighbourhoods for more hipster people. As a French citizen having lived over there 3 years, I was indeed impressed that in Australia alcohol = violence, which is a new concept to me. You often see people down on the pavement cuffed by the police for a few hours until they calm down. I have no idea whether they get fined or arrested after that. My NYC friend says police is still very reasonable, and not as overeager and totalitarian as in NYC, though. So subjects might actually actually drunk and violent.

chris_wot 11y ago
They are. The lockout laws actually come from Newcastle, which had an even worse problem. Alcohol fueled violence has been and remains a massive problem in Australia. In fact, drinking in Australia remains a massive problem: we have some of the worst cases of binge-drinking and alcoholism rates in the world. We have a list of dangerous pubs in NSW: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/north-coast-pub-tops-list-of-most-violent-venues-in-nsw/6982534 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/north-coast-pub-tops-l...
- MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
  Interesting, recently there was a study posted on HN that it depends on genetics whether or not someone becomes violent when drunk. Australia started as a prison colony, maybe there is a connection there?
  - angry_octet 11y ago
    Can someone please flag the above post as idiotic?
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    Only if there is a connection between a predisposition of Germans misusing eugenics research to the Second World War. You honestly are a buffoon.

barbs 11y ago

Important correction: you mean Kings Cross, not King st.

DominikR 11y ago

This is truly horrible, but I have to say that I'd rather have the government use proportionate force on bad players instead of using it on business owners to have them enforce some reactionary laws and in the process limiting the freedoms of the majority. The state has the monopoly on enforcing rules and it should not fear forcing citizens to comply. If the state for some reason cannot uphold order anymore then we are back at having survival of the fittest and might makes right on the streets. I'm not defending trigger happy police men, but in this particular case police should have been watching this area and arrest and later charge everyone that hit somebody random in the head for attempted manslaughter, even if the victim didn't suffer any enduring damage. I believe this would have sent a message.

late2part 11y ago

It's a shame they don't have laws against murder or assault that could address these issues.

hamstergene 11y ago

So there is a problem with assaults/murders on a street. Why not put cameras there to capture attacker's clearly, create super-harsh punishment for unprovoked attacking, put a policeman on every corner, etc? How imposing laws against mixing alcohol in a shaker can is possibly related?