11 ms·

The decline seems real to me. A shortlist of things I've noticed: * Spotlight no longer finds things as easily. I used to use it for everything. Since updating

by graeme 11y ago

The decline seems real to me. A shortlist of things I've noticed: * Spotlight no longer finds things as easily. I used to use it for everything. Since updating to El Capitan, it has missed some exact match folders. Planning to switch to Alfred. * iWork was gutted in '13. People used to use Pages professionally. I'm now using Pages '09, and planning to transition to Word or Latex. I tested Pages '13 intensively, and it fails for even basic publishing. * Siri can only work with default Apple apps. And those default apps are getting worse. So Siri takes a hit with every app that declines. I used to use Mail, now I don't. * Constant Wifi issues. I frequently have to turn off wifi, then turn on. On my home network. This never happened pre Mavericks. * In general, all my Apple default software on my iphone is sitting in a folder titled "apple", which I never use. I don't think I use any Apple default App. * I avoid icloud. It sends scary "do you want to delete all these files" messages if you ever unsync a device, and it's not clear which actions produce which effects. iTunes has a history of destroying files on syncs, so I can't trust iCloud. Even now, itunes will add apps to my device if they're in my library but I deleted them from my phone. It does this without asking! Any other cloud app has figured out how to handle deletions from one device. Pages 09 hit the hardest. It was wonderful software. I used it for print publishing, and it just worked. Easy to use, incredibly powerful. Have a look at their manual for the level of care they put into their software, as recently as 2009. Pages 13 can't do half of that. Very basic stuff like "facing pages" for books has been left out. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA663/en_US/Pages09_UserGuide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA663/en_US/Pages09... Edit: A comment below pointed out that, I do in fact use default apps. I had taken them for granted. These ones work well and I use them: Messages, Phone, camera, photos, clock, wallet, calendar, music (UI got worse on this one). Reminders I use occasionally because of the Siri integration. There are some issues with some of them, but mostly they work pretty well. On the mac, the only default apps I use frequently are textedit and Preview. Previews remains excellent. I use spotlight, but as noted above it got worse.

nextos 11y ago
I noticed the trend with Snow Leopard. Also the tendency towards iOS-ification of Mac OS, so I decided to switch back to Linux. I think Apple's best hour came with Tiger and Leopard. Simple applications that did one thing well and were robust. Now there's a lot of feature bloat. A nice Linux set up with minimal software (e.g. xmonad, mutt, emacs or vim) is a joy to use, but takes time to set up and learn to use. So it's not for everyone. Interestingly, I've experienced the same issue Apple is suffering with Ubuntu. Edgy Eft (6.10) was incredibly simple and nice. Like OS X Tiger. Now there are dozens of services running and something always gives trouble. I guess the old adage applies, make things as simple as possible but no simpler...
- wwweston 11y ago
  IIRC, Snow Leopard was actually the best release -- essentially Leopard but with a focus on stability and performance, plus the code signing stuff. It's the last OS X release that felt like an improvement to me, and one of the last OS X releases that I trusted. Every one since has actually had feature regressions (let's make a formerly visible folder invisible!) or stability issues. I still have a 2008 Macbook Pro running Snow Leopard and it's more stable than a 2012 MBP running Mavericks and performs about as well.
  - fuzzywalrus 11y ago
    Mavericks was tough to give up, stable, fast. No discoveryd. IMHO, its the best release of OS X. Maybe everyone has amnesia but pre 10.3, OS X wasn't really usable full time. Each 10.2.x release was a whirlwind of changes. Early iOS had wonky reset issues too.
    - VonGuard 11y ago
      Very true statements. However, those were growing pains. I feel like Apple's problem now is that it has completely given up on its overarching philosophy: to make software simple. Instead, they're just offering us their own versions of things just because they can, not because their's is any better. Maps being exhibit A, and Apple's mail client not changing in 10 years (aside from some minor adds and removes) are examples of this. Apple used to mean software for people who were not technology savvy. Now it means phone software for people who are not technologically savvy, and computer software that's just like everyone else's. Frankly, I can never figure things out on an iPhone. They're too confusing in their interface. Especially compared to my beloved Newton 2000.
      - pyre 11y ago
        > Apple's mail client not changing in 10 years (aside from some minor adds and removes) are examples of this How is Mail.app supposed to change though? It still completes the task that it was designed for. I'll agree that Mail's stability has been spotty across releases, but how are you expecting them to change such a core app?
nier 11y ago
Which mail application or webmail/browser did you switch to?
jsingleton 11y ago
Wi-Fi issues is a big one. I had a MacBook that stopped connecting when on OSX, even over reboots. I had to reboot the access point in the end so perhaps it wasn't an Apple problem. Yet no other devices were having issues and I've not had a problem with it since it's been running Windows.
- bhauer 11y ago
  This is a bit of a tangent, but is Wi-Fi becoming more finicky in general, perhaps due to spectrum congestion? I find I somewhat frequently have Wi-Fi related problems of the sort you're describing on a variety of devices. It seems Wi-Fi from about 5 years ago was perhaps slower but more reliable. Am I just imagining this?
ktRolster 11y ago
> Constant Wifi issues. I frequently have to turn off wifi, then turn on. On my home network. This never happened pre Mavericks. FWIW updating to El Capitan fixed this for me.
tkinom 11y ago
Agree on all the items. Not just Apple, I see similar issues with Google. Google's Youtube IOS app has issue playing video correctly. It can't even buffer the segments correctly. Google latest Android Map crashes all the times 1-2 minutes into the navigation, extremely dangerous when I have to restart the navigate while driving. I can't depend on it at all. I have to roll back to the default factory install older version google map to make it work. Lately I see the older stable version start crash more often, probabaly cause by the "update" on the server API side. It will be a very scary world if this type of SW development processes are applied to tomorrow's "self driving car".
- VonGuard 11y ago
  All iOS issues with Google software, I suspect, have more to do with Apple being dicks to Google than with Google fucking up. Remember, Apple is really trying hard to rid iOS of all Google programs. Remember Apple Maps?
  - steven777400 11y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure. I run Google apps on Android, and although I'm not sure the situation has gotten worse, it definitely hasn't gotten better. I can concur that navigation will crash without warning mid-route, maps will suddenly decide I'm somewhere very, very far away (and change the results list to "match"), and so on. It's not unusable by any means, but it could stand improvement.
  - tkinom 11y ago
    The crash issues I had with google map was on Android. I check the reviews on Google Play Store, it is not just me or my Android devices, almost everyone had that crash issues at that time. I can't figure out how Google can release any software like that. Google can't blame IOS/Apple for that.
    - wstrange 11y ago
      I suspect some of those crashes are hardware related. Anecdotal for sure, but Google Maps has been solid for me on Nexus devices.
cname 11y ago
You don't use any of the default iPhone apps? I find that hard to believe. What about these: - calculator - camera - clock - contacts - messages - phone - photos - safari If you literally use none of these apps, I would be really surprised. Since we're sharing anecdotes: I've never had a problem with WiFi connectivity or Spotlight on El Capitan across multiple devices. I don't use iWork or Siri, so I can't speak to that. iCloud seems fine to me, but I don't use it extensively.
- kbenson 11y ago
  Calling someone a liar without providing any proof, or even good reasoning on why it's likely beyond the minimum "I find that hard to believe." provided, is an asshole move. Please don't do that. > Since we're sharing anecdotes Well, some of his points were anecdotes, some were observations about how he interacts with apple, and some were specific accounts of problematic functionality. > iCloud seems fine to me, but I don't use it extensively. The claims were that it had some poorly worded confirmations for deleting files when you unsync a device (subjective but testable), that iTunes has a history of destroying files on syncs (should be testable with some searching), and that iTunes will add apps to his computer after he deletes them from his phone (probably needs clarification, but definitely testable). Responding to a comment with an accusation that it's full of anecdotes and then responding to a portion of that comment which has real, testable assertions with a hedged anecdote is not a useful way to further relevant discussion.
  - graeme 11y ago
    They didn't call me a liar. They just implied I was wrong. Big difference. You can be wrong without lying. I was wrong. I had forgotten that I do use several default apps, taking them for granted, and overstated my case.
    - kbenson 11y ago
      Since it was a statement by you about your own actions, saying he thinks you are wrong in that wording is calling you a liar. It could, and I think should, have been worded differently if the intent was to probe whether you were being hyperbolic or mistaken. E.g. "I'm not sure how someone would go about not using any Apple app, such as calculator, camera, clock, contacts, messages, phone, photos, safari. Do you not require a lot of what these apps provide, or have actually found good alternatives for each of them?" or "I really can't imagine not using any Apple apps. How do you get by without any of them?" In each of these cases, the problem is presented as a failure of the asker's imagination or knowledge, and we ask for clarification on this point. IMO, this is a much more civil way to converse than starting out by questioning the veracity of someone's statements about theirself.
jakobegger 11y ago
Completely agree with the Wifi issues. My Macbook has become extremely unreliable, it often takes me five minutes connecting/disconnecting to get online. Recently I've additionally seen random network slowdowns that are impossible to debug, and they happen only on a single Macbook -- all other machines on the same Wifi are fine. Completely unreliable.
bb101 11y ago
Glad someone else noticed that they hobbled Pages '13. You used to be able to link text boxes in Pages '09 and they removed that feature, and countless others in order to "align" the functionality with their inferior iOS product. Pages is the only piece of software I have on my Mac where I need to keep the previous version safe because it was so much better!
- graeme 11y ago
  Indeed. I'm in constant dread that they'll make Pages 09 incompatible on a future OS update. I have a migration plan, but it will be a lot of work. Whereas my Pages 09 workflow is perfect. Pages 09 did exactly what I wanted it to. I've heard no one say similar things about Pages 13.
thomble 11y ago
I too noticed the wifi issues when I got my new MBP with Mavericks. I had to stop/start the wireless service frequently. I eventually narrowed it down to some incompatibility between my Cisco Surfboard cable modem / WAP and the MBP. I reconfigured it as a bridge and connected a low-end Linksys WAP I had laying around. It solved the problem. I still think this is Apple's problem, since I'd used that WAP for years with many devices and never encountered an issue.
tkinom 11y ago
BTW, to fix these issues by software dev process is not that hard. * Start by use/create a full functional regression system. * It is not that hard to create system level functional test coverage for wifi, Siri, search, etc. * Require ALL SW developers to run full tests every evening, weekend. Code are not allow to checkin or merge upstream if any test failed. * The test system should submit report on all test scripts pass/fail and performance characterization to central server every night.
Swinx43 11y ago
On the WiFi issues I have noticed that when using a normal 2.4GHz router in combination with any Bluetooth mouse, keyboard etc. causes lots of issues for me. Typically I would be getting really slow speeds and intermittent disconnects. Switching to a 5GHz WiFi router solved a lot of problems in the WiFi department for me on both El Capitan and Yosemite.
- vuulim 11y ago
  This is a very important point. Bluetooth interferes with 2.4GHz Wifi, therefore most Macs with bluetooth keyboards/mice struggle a bit on networks at this frequency. 5GHz is pretty much a requirement these days to get the best from a newish Mac.
pjmlp 11y ago
So we are back to the Apple in the days of Copland?
ramenmeal 11y ago
What annoys me the most is when my mba awakes from sleep, there are around 10 processes that update their state and it means my CPU usage is at 100% per core for a few minutes. The computer is unusable during that period.
- dolguldur 11y ago
  This! I wonder whether this is part of some introduced obsolescence or also happens on recent models.
  - egypturnash 11y ago
    My 2013 MBA is ready to go pretty much the instant I open it up.
wmeredith 11y ago
The gutting of iWork hit my office hard. I'd be using Numbers, Keynote, and Pages for years in a professional environment. The lack of support for some of even the most basic desktop publishing features is mind boggling. (e.g. There is no longer a way to rotate column header labels in the new Numbers. What? Why not?) There are a hundred trivial features like this that were totally scrapped across all iWork software. Really basic stuff. It was a disaster for anyone using the software professionally.
- graeme 11y ago
  Did your office find a Pages alternative, or are you still using Pages09. (Or Pages13?)
Spooky23 11y ago
The apps on Mac are always sideshows. My understanding was that one of the earlier versions of iMovie was essentially a 1-man, (or small # of people) effort that was shipped, and eventually replaced. The difference is that everything worked. My personal opinion, based purely on speculation is that once Jony Ive & company rolled over everyone in the company, as with any corporate struggle, their priorities are the only ones that really matter. The Apple Music nonsense, that somehow managed to break an already broken product is a similar story I'm sure. Lots of attention was paid to the visuals in Yosemite, but "unimportant" things like broken wifi, and gratuitous changes like discoveryd were allowed to see the light of day. I think Jobs was the only person able/willing to tell anyone to go fuck off, and the company is suffering from that loss.
Spooky23 11y ago
The apps on Mac are always sideshows. My understanding was that one of the earlier versions of iMovie was essentially a 1-man, (or small # of people) effort that was shipped, and eventually replaced. The difference is that everything worked. My personal opinion, based purely on speculation is that once Jony Ive & company rolled over everyone in the company, as with any corporate struggle, their priorities are the only ones that really matter. Lots of attention was paid to the visuals in Yosemite, but "unimportant" things like broken wifi, and gratuitous changes like discoveryd were allowed to see the light of day. I think Jobs was the only person able/willing to tell anyone to go fuck off, and the company is suffering from that loss.
FireBeyond 11y ago
Pages is an abomination. My partner was nearly in tears trying to do the most basic of table formatting. iOS app 'screenshots' (in task selection mode) are often dated, even after multiple openings of the app. I get that they are meant to be just that, snapshots, but if those aren't up to date, you may as well just show the app icon. Up to once a week, now, iCloud (in OS X settings) asks me to verify my password when "nothing has changed" (no purchases, etc). It then spins for a long time and there's no acknowledgement that it 'succeeded'. Several more.
- jlarocco 11y ago
  > Up to once a week, now, iCloud (in OS X settings) asks me to verify my password when "nothing has changed" (no purchases, etc). It then spins for a long time and there's no acknowledgement that it 'succeeded'. Only once a week? Try refusing to log in. You'll get pestered every five minutes, sometimes more often than that. Try disabling it after not logging in, and it asks you to log in to disable it, and then start pestering you even more frequently. Completely asinine.
arc0re 11y ago
Just a note, I was sick of Spotlight too, and I switched to Alfred, which is actually the "father" of spotlight. And it is way better than Spotlight now. You should give it a try
auggierose 11y ago
Preview was pretty cool, and for the most part still is, but now it doesn't update any more when viewing a PDF not in page mode but in continuous scroll mode. That basically means I cannot use it for previewing Latex PDFs anymore.
- sawwit 11y ago
  Skim.app is very suitable for Latex PDF preview (it even supports syncing given you have an Editor that supports it too, e.g. Emacs AUCTex or TexShop).
vpalan2 11y ago
I lost several playlists with a recent ITunes update. Newer upgrades of iTunes have not helped. Given how basic the concept of a playlist is to iTunes, I was surprised to find this was not fixed immediately.
greggman 11y ago
Clock has bugs. I've had alarms not go off 3 times in the last year. Pictures to prove it because when the alarm goes off it's no longer "on" (its switch is slide to the off position) so the fact that the switches are still on 30 minutes after the alarm time past means the alarm didn't go off. Nearly missed a flight. Music once it went flat UI is now complete crap. It drives me nuts all the time and I use it often because there really isn't an alternative. While I'm ranting one thing that's been bad from the beginning is the locked music UI. The next track button is just a few mm from the volume slider which means about once every 2 weeks I blow my ears out trying to skip to the next track. That "feature" carried over to the toolbar menu (or whatever the slide up menu is called) http://imgur.com/a/gJ3QN http://imgur.com/a/gJ3QN
- graeme 11y ago
  And that tiny slider that indicates where you are in the track. Very, very hard to move it properly. Wasn't so in the non-flat version.
- dingo_bat 11y ago
  IMO the default music app being not very good is OK. The real sin is not allowing others to compete. Android default music player(play music, even the name is crap) is awful. But it's not a problem because there are literally hundreds of free and paid music players that will scratch your particular itch so well, that you won't be able to use anything else after that.
  - thirdsun 11y ago
    Have your tried something like Ecoute on iOS? It's a third party music player and I use it full time since Apple Music was trying show up everywhere in the music.app Ecoute uses the same library as the default app, shows a nice simple grid or list of your albums/artists/playlists and is well designed. When you use any controls in either app it will be picked up in both. It doesn't matter in which app you start a playlist/play/pause/skip/whatever. With that in mind, using Ecoute as default app was as easy as replacing the icon in the dock. No need for a default music app setting in my opinion. More here: http://www.pixiapps.com/ecouteios/ http://www.pixiapps.com/ecouteios/
cleaver 11y ago
Pages used to be my word processor of choice. I have since subscribed to Office 365. My understanding is that the desktop version of Pages was brought in line with the iOS version. Simple things like paragraph styles were taken out.
spinlock 11y ago
It's funny, I was just regretting the latest OSX update that I made. My MacBook Pro (work laptop) is 2 years old and was great when I first set up my dev environment. Now, I need to restart every couple of days. I should spend some time partitioning the disk and installing Linux.
- lunula 11y ago
  > I should spend some time partitioning the disk and installing Linux. That hour spent might save you twenty. But if you want the best experience you need a laptop that was certified for OEM Linux, like some of the Lenovo boxes. The user experience is better than a macbook. Rock solid OS. Everything just works. Seamless upgrades. A bunch of warm hearted people will carefully apply themselves to making the system work better while you sleep.
poopchute 11y ago
iTunes and iCloud deleting all my data is what sent me to Android. Deleting data should be a cardinal sin and require some conscious effort to do.

by graeme 11y ago

nextos 11y ago

I noticed the trend with Snow Leopard. Also the tendency towards iOS-ification of Mac OS, so I decided to switch back to Linux. I think Apple's best hour came with Tiger and Leopard. Simple applications that did one thing well and were robust. Now there's a lot of feature bloat. A nice Linux set up with minimal software (e.g. xmonad, mutt, emacs or vim) is a joy to use, but takes time to set up and learn to use. So it's not for everyone. Interestingly, I've experienced the same issue Apple is suffering with Ubuntu. Edgy Eft (6.10) was incredibly simple and nice. Like OS X Tiger. Now there are dozens of services running and something always gives trouble. I guess the old adage applies, make things as simple as possible but no simpler...

wwweston 11y ago
IIRC, Snow Leopard was actually the best release -- essentially Leopard but with a focus on stability and performance, plus the code signing stuff. It's the last OS X release that felt like an improvement to me, and one of the last OS X releases that I trusted. Every one since has actually had feature regressions (let's make a formerly visible folder invisible!) or stability issues. I still have a 2008 Macbook Pro running Snow Leopard and it's more stable than a 2012 MBP running Mavericks and performs about as well.
- fuzzywalrus 11y ago
  Mavericks was tough to give up, stable, fast. No discoveryd. IMHO, its the best release of OS X. Maybe everyone has amnesia but pre 10.3, OS X wasn't really usable full time. Each 10.2.x release was a whirlwind of changes. Early iOS had wonky reset issues too.
  - VonGuard 11y ago
    Very true statements. However, those were growing pains. I feel like Apple's problem now is that it has completely given up on its overarching philosophy: to make software simple. Instead, they're just offering us their own versions of things just because they can, not because their's is any better. Maps being exhibit A, and Apple's mail client not changing in 10 years (aside from some minor adds and removes) are examples of this. Apple used to mean software for people who were not technology savvy. Now it means phone software for people who are not technologically savvy, and computer software that's just like everyone else's. Frankly, I can never figure things out on an iPhone. They're too confusing in their interface. Especially compared to my beloved Newton 2000.
    - pyre 11y ago
      > Apple's mail client not changing in 10 years (aside from some minor adds and removes) are examples of this How is Mail.app supposed to change though? It still completes the task that it was designed for. I'll agree that Mail's stability has been spotty across releases, but how are you expecting them to change such a core app?

nier 11y ago

Which mail application or webmail/browser did you switch to?

jsingleton 11y ago

Wi-Fi issues is a big one. I had a MacBook that stopped connecting when on OSX, even over reboots. I had to reboot the access point in the end so perhaps it wasn't an Apple problem. Yet no other devices were having issues and I've not had a problem with it since it's been running Windows.

bhauer 11y ago
This is a bit of a tangent, but is Wi-Fi becoming more finicky in general, perhaps due to spectrum congestion? I find I somewhat frequently have Wi-Fi related problems of the sort you're describing on a variety of devices. It seems Wi-Fi from about 5 years ago was perhaps slower but more reliable. Am I just imagining this?

ktRolster 11y ago

> Constant Wifi issues. I frequently have to turn off wifi, then turn on. On my home network. This never happened pre Mavericks. FWIW updating to El Capitan fixed this for me.

tkinom 11y ago

Agree on all the items. Not just Apple, I see similar issues with Google. Google's Youtube IOS app has issue playing video correctly. It can't even buffer the segments correctly. Google latest Android Map crashes all the times 1-2 minutes into the navigation, extremely dangerous when I have to restart the navigate while driving. I can't depend on it at all. I have to roll back to the default factory install older version google map to make it work. Lately I see the older stable version start crash more often, probabaly cause by the "update" on the server API side. It will be a very scary world if this type of SW development processes are applied to tomorrow's "self driving car".

VonGuard 11y ago
All iOS issues with Google software, I suspect, have more to do with Apple being dicks to Google than with Google fucking up. Remember, Apple is really trying hard to rid iOS of all Google programs. Remember Apple Maps?
- steven777400 11y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure. I run Google apps on Android, and although I'm not sure the situation has gotten worse, it definitely hasn't gotten better. I can concur that navigation will crash without warning mid-route, maps will suddenly decide I'm somewhere very, very far away (and change the results list to "match"), and so on. It's not unusable by any means, but it could stand improvement.
- tkinom 11y ago
  The crash issues I had with google map was on Android. I check the reviews on Google Play Store, it is not just me or my Android devices, almost everyone had that crash issues at that time. I can't figure out how Google can release any software like that. Google can't blame IOS/Apple for that.
  - wstrange 11y ago
    I suspect some of those crashes are hardware related. Anecdotal for sure, but Google Maps has been solid for me on Nexus devices.

cname 11y ago

You don't use any of the default iPhone apps? I find that hard to believe. What about these: - calculator - camera - clock - contacts - messages - phone - photos - safari If you literally use none of these apps, I would be really surprised. Since we're sharing anecdotes: I've never had a problem with WiFi connectivity or Spotlight on El Capitan across multiple devices. I don't use iWork or Siri, so I can't speak to that. iCloud seems fine to me, but I don't use it extensively.

kbenson 11y ago
Calling someone a liar without providing any proof, or even good reasoning on why it's likely beyond the minimum "I find that hard to believe." provided, is an asshole move. Please don't do that. > Since we're sharing anecdotes Well, some of his points were anecdotes, some were observations about how he interacts with apple, and some were specific accounts of problematic functionality. > iCloud seems fine to me, but I don't use it extensively. The claims were that it had some poorly worded confirmations for deleting files when you unsync a device (subjective but testable), that iTunes has a history of destroying files on syncs (should be testable with some searching), and that iTunes will add apps to his computer after he deletes them from his phone (probably needs clarification, but definitely testable). Responding to a comment with an accusation that it's full of anecdotes and then responding to a portion of that comment which has real, testable assertions with a hedged anecdote is not a useful way to further relevant discussion.
- graeme 11y ago
  They didn't call me a liar. They just implied I was wrong. Big difference. You can be wrong without lying. I was wrong. I had forgotten that I do use several default apps, taking them for granted, and overstated my case.
  - kbenson 11y ago
    Since it was a statement by you about your own actions, saying he thinks you are wrong in that wording is calling you a liar. It could, and I think should, have been worded differently if the intent was to probe whether you were being hyperbolic or mistaken. E.g. "I'm not sure how someone would go about not using any Apple app, such as calculator, camera, clock, contacts, messages, phone, photos, safari. Do you not require a lot of what these apps provide, or have actually found good alternatives for each of them?" or "I really can't imagine not using any Apple apps. How do you get by without any of them?" In each of these cases, the problem is presented as a failure of the asker's imagination or knowledge, and we ask for clarification on this point. IMO, this is a much more civil way to converse than starting out by questioning the veracity of someone's statements about theirself.

jakobegger 11y ago

Completely agree with the Wifi issues. My Macbook has become extremely unreliable, it often takes me five minutes connecting/disconnecting to get online. Recently I've additionally seen random network slowdowns that are impossible to debug, and they happen only on a single Macbook -- all other machines on the same Wifi are fine. Completely unreliable.

bb101 11y ago

Glad someone else noticed that they hobbled Pages '13. You used to be able to link text boxes in Pages '09 and they removed that feature, and countless others in order to "align" the functionality with their inferior iOS product. Pages is the only piece of software I have on my Mac where I need to keep the previous version safe because it was so much better!

graeme 11y ago
Indeed. I'm in constant dread that they'll make Pages 09 incompatible on a future OS update. I have a migration plan, but it will be a lot of work. Whereas my Pages 09 workflow is perfect. Pages 09 did exactly what I wanted it to. I've heard no one say similar things about Pages 13.

thomble 11y ago

I too noticed the wifi issues when I got my new MBP with Mavericks. I had to stop/start the wireless service frequently. I eventually narrowed it down to some incompatibility between my Cisco Surfboard cable modem / WAP and the MBP. I reconfigured it as a bridge and connected a low-end Linksys WAP I had laying around. It solved the problem. I still think this is Apple's problem, since I'd used that WAP for years with many devices and never encountered an issue.

tkinom 11y ago

BTW, to fix these issues by software dev process is not that hard. * Start by use/create a full functional regression system. * It is not that hard to create system level functional test coverage for wifi, Siri, search, etc. * Require ALL SW developers to run full tests every evening, weekend. Code are not allow to checkin or merge upstream if any test failed. * The test system should submit report on all test scripts pass/fail and performance characterization to central server every night.

Swinx43 11y ago

On the WiFi issues I have noticed that when using a normal 2.4GHz router in combination with any Bluetooth mouse, keyboard etc. causes lots of issues for me. Typically I would be getting really slow speeds and intermittent disconnects. Switching to a 5GHz WiFi router solved a lot of problems in the WiFi department for me on both El Capitan and Yosemite.

vuulim 11y ago
This is a very important point. Bluetooth interferes with 2.4GHz Wifi, therefore most Macs with bluetooth keyboards/mice struggle a bit on networks at this frequency. 5GHz is pretty much a requirement these days to get the best from a newish Mac.

pjmlp 11y ago

So we are back to the Apple in the days of Copland?

ramenmeal 11y ago

What annoys me the most is when my mba awakes from sleep, there are around 10 processes that update their state and it means my CPU usage is at 100% per core for a few minutes. The computer is unusable during that period.

dolguldur 11y ago
This! I wonder whether this is part of some introduced obsolescence or also happens on recent models.
- egypturnash 11y ago
  My 2013 MBA is ready to go pretty much the instant I open it up.

wmeredith 11y ago

The gutting of iWork hit my office hard. I'd be using Numbers, Keynote, and Pages for years in a professional environment. The lack of support for some of even the most basic desktop publishing features is mind boggling. (e.g. There is no longer a way to rotate column header labels in the new Numbers. What? Why not?) There are a hundred trivial features like this that were totally scrapped across all iWork software. Really basic stuff. It was a disaster for anyone using the software professionally.

graeme 11y ago
Did your office find a Pages alternative, or are you still using Pages09. (Or Pages13?)

Spooky23 11y ago

The apps on Mac are always sideshows. My understanding was that one of the earlier versions of iMovie was essentially a 1-man, (or small # of people) effort that was shipped, and eventually replaced. The difference is that everything worked. My personal opinion, based purely on speculation is that once Jony Ive & company rolled over everyone in the company, as with any corporate struggle, their priorities are the only ones that really matter. The Apple Music nonsense, that somehow managed to break an already broken product is a similar story I'm sure. Lots of attention was paid to the visuals in Yosemite, but "unimportant" things like broken wifi, and gratuitous changes like discoveryd were allowed to see the light of day. I think Jobs was the only person able/willing to tell anyone to go fuck off, and the company is suffering from that loss.

Spooky23 11y ago

The apps on Mac are always sideshows. My understanding was that one of the earlier versions of iMovie was essentially a 1-man, (or small # of people) effort that was shipped, and eventually replaced. The difference is that everything worked. My personal opinion, based purely on speculation is that once Jony Ive & company rolled over everyone in the company, as with any corporate struggle, their priorities are the only ones that really matter. Lots of attention was paid to the visuals in Yosemite, but "unimportant" things like broken wifi, and gratuitous changes like discoveryd were allowed to see the light of day. I think Jobs was the only person able/willing to tell anyone to go fuck off, and the company is suffering from that loss.

FireBeyond 11y ago

Pages is an abomination. My partner was nearly in tears trying to do the most basic of table formatting. iOS app 'screenshots' (in task selection mode) are often dated, even after multiple openings of the app. I get that they are meant to be just that, snapshots, but if those aren't up to date, you may as well just show the app icon. Up to once a week, now, iCloud (in OS X settings) asks me to verify my password when "nothing has changed" (no purchases, etc). It then spins for a long time and there's no acknowledgement that it 'succeeded'. Several more.

jlarocco 11y ago
> Up to once a week, now, iCloud (in OS X settings) asks me to verify my password when "nothing has changed" (no purchases, etc). It then spins for a long time and there's no acknowledgement that it 'succeeded'. Only once a week? Try refusing to log in. You'll get pestered every five minutes, sometimes more often than that. Try disabling it after not logging in, and it asks you to log in to disable it, and then start pestering you even more frequently. Completely asinine.

arc0re 11y ago

Just a note, I was sick of Spotlight too, and I switched to Alfred, which is actually the "father" of spotlight. And it is way better than Spotlight now. You should give it a try

auggierose 11y ago

Preview was pretty cool, and for the most part still is, but now it doesn't update any more when viewing a PDF not in page mode but in continuous scroll mode. That basically means I cannot use it for previewing Latex PDFs anymore.

sawwit 11y ago
Skim.app is very suitable for Latex PDF preview (it even supports syncing given you have an Editor that supports it too, e.g. Emacs AUCTex or TexShop).

vpalan2 11y ago

I lost several playlists with a recent ITunes update. Newer upgrades of iTunes have not helped. Given how basic the concept of a playlist is to iTunes, I was surprised to find this was not fixed immediately.

greggman 11y ago

Clock has bugs. I've had alarms not go off 3 times in the last year. Pictures to prove it because when the alarm goes off it's no longer "on" (its switch is slide to the off position) so the fact that the switches are still on 30 minutes after the alarm time past means the alarm didn't go off. Nearly missed a flight. Music once it went flat UI is now complete crap. It drives me nuts all the time and I use it often because there really isn't an alternative. While I'm ranting one thing that's been bad from the beginning is the locked music UI. The next track button is just a few mm from the volume slider which means about once every 2 weeks I blow my ears out trying to skip to the next track. That "feature" carried over to the toolbar menu (or whatever the slide up menu is called) http://imgur.com/a/gJ3QN http://imgur.com/a/gJ3QN

graeme 11y ago
And that tiny slider that indicates where you are in the track. Very, very hard to move it properly. Wasn't so in the non-flat version.
dingo_bat 11y ago
IMO the default music app being not very good is OK. The real sin is not allowing others to compete. Android default music player(play music, even the name is crap) is awful. But it's not a problem because there are literally hundreds of free and paid music players that will scratch your particular itch so well, that you won't be able to use anything else after that.
- thirdsun 11y ago
  Have your tried something like Ecoute on iOS? It's a third party music player and I use it full time since Apple Music was trying show up everywhere in the music.app Ecoute uses the same library as the default app, shows a nice simple grid or list of your albums/artists/playlists and is well designed. When you use any controls in either app it will be picked up in both. It doesn't matter in which app you start a playlist/play/pause/skip/whatever. With that in mind, using Ecoute as default app was as easy as replacing the icon in the dock. No need for a default music app setting in my opinion. More here: http://www.pixiapps.com/ecouteios/ http://www.pixiapps.com/ecouteios/

cleaver 11y ago

Pages used to be my word processor of choice. I have since subscribed to Office 365. My understanding is that the desktop version of Pages was brought in line with the iOS version. Simple things like paragraph styles were taken out.

spinlock 11y ago

It's funny, I was just regretting the latest OSX update that I made. My MacBook Pro (work laptop) is 2 years old and was great when I first set up my dev environment. Now, I need to restart every couple of days. I should spend some time partitioning the disk and installing Linux.

lunula 11y ago
> I should spend some time partitioning the disk and installing Linux. That hour spent might save you twenty. But if you want the best experience you need a laptop that was certified for OEM Linux, like some of the Lenovo boxes. The user experience is better than a macbook. Rock solid OS. Everything just works. Seamless upgrades. A bunch of warm hearted people will carefully apply themselves to making the system work better while you sleep.

poopchute 11y ago

iTunes and iCloud deleting all my data is what sent me to Android. Deleting data should be a cardinal sin and require some conscious effort to do.