6 ms·

Ask HN: What's your #1 pain point when asking for a raise?

• anOwl 11y ago
  Great initiative mate, looking forward to this :).
  • mgadams3 11y ago
    Thanks. Until the party gets started, I wrote a blog post on this a while ago that people seemed to like that you can check out here. :) http://www.mgadams.com/2015/06/30/the-software-engineers-guide-to-negotiating-a-raise/ http://www.mgadams.com/2015/06/30/the-software-engineers-gui...
• foolinaround 11y ago
  - Just like a job interview, you need to anticipate the questions / objections that might be brought up, and prepare to pre-empt them. could be something random where you dropped the ball on something in the past year, and you almost forgot about it, but it would be brought in the review process.
• lojack 11y ago
  Do I openly say that I've been interviewing, received job offers, etc?
  • drglitch 11y ago
    Although i would argue that asking for a raise should always come first, before interviewing. If it doesn't happen you do interview and leave the company. It is also good to interview occasionally to simply know your current market rate. If you're already got offers though, it sounds like you know it as is.
    • mgadams3 11y ago
      Exactly. You don't want them to feel like you're overly mercinary and didn't even give them a chance to fix the problem by just being open about how you feel you're not being paid what you're worth. There is a LOT that goes into that first conversation being an effective one and even more that goes into the follow up. But absent progress, ultimately highest leverage way to get them to move is to objectively establish your value with a competing offer. The largest raises I've ever seen have come on the heels of informing your company about another offer, but that's only valuable to you in THIS job if you're wanderlust hasn't already taken full root.
  • wyldfire 11y ago
    I'd be worried that the risk of disclosing offers is that the response might be "sorry, can't match, good luck there." In which case you'd need to be prepared to take those offers. If you tried to stay after they can't meet your offer, they probably won't take this claim seriously ever again.
• drglitch 11y ago
  "I really appreciate the work you do and think you do deserve a 20% bump, but I am confident HR will shut this down becase of [budget/end of year/upcoming org changes/bad lunch yesterday]. We'll do our best and get back to you [soon/never]." Another big one is the "We are locked by HR on base comp, but we'll be sure to make you whole at year end!". When year end comes you dont get paid anyway (if they know you won't leave). Would love to find a stress free counter to these :) EDIT: Ultimately, IMO, you must be ready to walk out when negotiating a raise. Otherwise you won't get anything material.
  • elcct 11y ago
    > you must be ready to walk out when negotiating a raise This. Otherwise they can say any sad story or excuse and make you stay forever without a raise...
    • mgadams3 11y ago
      In smaller companies where decision makers are usually more empathetic towards the employee, there are various other ways you can get them to move without having to use an external offer as leverage. At bigger companies that are more restricted by process, they do this for a reason and ultimately data speaks louder than words. Assuming you've exhausted the usual strategy of establishing your value that is not fully compensated and they're just not moving, if you have a competing offer for $20k more, they now have no choice but to increase the urgency with how they approach you up the chain.
    • aesthetics1 11y ago
      This is very important. You have to make sure you have the upper hand. This has been successful for me even in the private sector. I left a department once with another offer in hand, and they were willing to rewrite the job spec (and salary range) to convince me to stay. The other offer was more lucrative with more upward mobility, so I ended up leaving anyway, but it's a much better experience when you don't have anything to lose.
• rjv 11y ago
  I'm not sure if this is addressing the question precisely, but I think it's relevant. One of the main things I've learned over the years is that you have to be your own advocate when it comes to raises/promotions. I've known a lot of developers who became disgruntled over years because they didn't think the company was taking the initiative and giving them what they thought they're worth. It wasn't until it sunk into my head that, generally speaking, there's an inherent conflict of interest between employer and employee. The employer wants to get the best bang for their buck; have talented people work for them at the lowest reasonable price. On the opposite end, the employee obviously wants to get paid the most they can get. It's because of this that (most of the time) an employer won't proactively seek out reasons to pay you more. Once I truly realized this, I became a stronger advocate for myself (because nobody else will be). This is usually the advice I give to younger developers who are working their way up the latter.. aside from saying that you should actually build your case for why a raise/promotion is appropriate. Do the work - do more than is expected of you - and be your own advocate.
  • mgadams3 11y ago
    This is great advice.
  • a-priori 11y ago
    Yes, this conflict exists. On the other hand, if a large gap appears between an employees' salaries and their market rate, that increases the company's turnover. Turnover is very expensive, somewhere between 6 months and 2 years of salary per employee that turns over. So an employer should proactively offer raises to keep their employees' salaries near market rate and help avoid turnover costs. It's short-sighted to keep salaries low. That's not to say companies don't do short-sighted things though...
• dayk995 11y ago
  Here is my current situation. I don't know if it'll help much. I got a job about 4 years ago as a software engineer which required my wife and I to move to a new state (away from family). I actually wanted to move out of state which is why I applied for the job in the first place. We had no commitments. We lived in a small modest apartment. The first two years I received a raise and a bonus without me having to negotiate at all. Within the past two years however, we bought our first house and had our first child. I have not received a raise or bonus these past two years. Now is the time I actually need it. I fell into the trap. They were willing to pay to keep me here but now that I'm stuck here, they don't need to offer me an incentive to stay. I've lost my leverage when I bought a house and had a kid.
  • balls187 11y ago
    Are you in a job market with a lot of alternatives? Also you're not stuck there. People with houses and kids move. It's not as easy, but you aren't exactly treading new ground.
  • mgadams3 11y ago
    I can totally relate and it's easy to feel trapped or helpless, especially when you've got kids to provide for (I've got 2 of my own). What makes you feel like you've lost your leverage b/c of your family obligations? It seems unlikely that you have... but a deep examination of what makes you feel that way is important.
    • dayk995 11y ago
      Right. It seems like we've finally settled down so starting the whole process again (interviewing, selling the house, moving, etc...) is something I'm not looking forward to. If the trend continues then it'll certainly have to be done.
      • mgadams3 11y ago
        Are you in a small enough market that moving companies without moving locations feels like your only choice? Have you concidered remote work?
• zaphar 11y ago
  It's something I've long since learned to get past but when I was first starting out the biggest pain point was learning that I am worth getting the top end of the market salary for what I do not the low or mid range of the market salary. It didn't really get better till I learned that if necessary I could always get a raise by switching companies. If I could sum it up I would say the biggest pain point was knowing my own worth in the market.
  • pinkunicorn 11y ago
    How did you figure out which salary bracket you fit into?
    • zaphar 11y ago
      I picked the bracket that was 1 higher than the one I "felt" like I was in. Human Beings tend to lowball ourselves. After a few times of doing this and seeing them meet your price though you start to get a sense of your own worth.
• Apreche 11y ago
  I get a raise every year without asking. I frequently get offers from other companies that are willing to pay me much more than I currently make. The biggest stress is that I don't want a raise. What I want is to work less. I currently work slightly less than 40 hours a week, and have a few weeks of vacation. Ideally I would like to work 4 or fewer days per week and have 5+ weeks of vacation time per year. I have attempted to negotiate this with my current employer as well as potential ones. I have never been successful. Everyone wants me to waste my life away sitting at a desk in their office. TL;DR: How do I successfully negotiate more time off instead of more money?
  • osullivj 11y ago
    Become an independent consultant/contractor.
    • Apreche 11y ago
      Does that come with health insurance and a 401k? I'm very risk averse.
      • mgadams3 11y ago
        No, you can usually increase your billable rate to make up for that difference. If for example your current salary would be $100k/2080 (work hours in a year) you'd be getting paid $48/hr. You'd likely set your contracting rate at at least $60/hr to make up for the difference or no PTO, insurance, 401k, etc.
        • jdmichal 11y ago
          Also in the US, tack on an additional 7.65% for Social Security and Medicare taxes that would normally be paid by the employer, which is now technically yourself.
          • azth 11y ago
            > Social Security and Medicare taxes Why do they show up as being deducted from your salary in your statements then?
• kasey_junk 11y ago
  I need "real" salary data for my area. Both as someone who asks for raises & gives them.
  • mgadams3 11y ago
    Objective Criteria is your best friend... Are you in a major market? The usual suspects of glassdoor, angel.co and annual market surveys typically have pretty good data, but it can be tricky in smaller market or in a very niche position.
  • ryanSrich 11y ago
    https://www.glassdoor.com/index.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/index.htm and https://www.onetonline.org https://www.onetonline.org have always been reliable data points. I do find that they are typically 10% lower than what I've been offered for various positions and 20% lower than what I was able to negotiate for.
    • jchendy 11y ago
      Last time I was looking into it, Glassdoor didn't seem to do a good job of covering bonuses and stock grants, which are very important factors.
      • ryanSrich 11y ago
        That's true for larger companies like Facebook and Google that grant stock and other forms of comp. But for most companies you're primarily compensated through a salary.
• lfender6445 11y ago
  for me, its the realization that if i don't get what I want, i risk feeling disheartened about my job in the future - especially if its a job i enjoy. there is a risk/reward benefit that one enters by asking for a raise, where if all things were to stay the same, I could walk away relatively unscathed. this could change depending on whether or not you were asking for a raise because you feel you deserve it, financial necessity, or both.
• jld89 11y ago
  How can I negotiate a salary raise if my Manager isn't the person who decides whether to make the raise or not? He only makes recommendations and more often than not those recommendations are not listened to by central HQ. Should I ask to talk with the section director? What is a viable strategy in this case? I am preparing a viable BATNA at the moment. In any case I'm very interested in those recommendations!!
• lxfontes 11y ago
  I think "having to ask" is the #1 pain point. Money is usually not a topic people are comfortable talking about.
  • mathgeek 11y ago
    In my mind, if you have to ask for a regular raise, then your company isn't treating you fairly in the first place. It's one thing to ask for a change in your salary because you feel you're underpaid, but it's worse when your company doesn't even have an annual evaluation and accompanying raise.
  • pinkunicorn 11y ago
    This is bang on. Anyone here willing to share how you convince yourself to ask for a pay raise?
    • endemic 11y ago
      I search for other, comparable positions, and see what I _could_ get if I jumped ship. At my previous job, I asked for a raise when I realized I was being paid significantly below market rates. They gave me a decent bump, but not enough for me to stay at the company when I got another (higher) offer.
    • my_username_is_ 11y ago
      Know that you deserve it. I keep an up to date LinkedIn profile, and when recruiters contact me I ask them if the position they're hiring for will pay more than a certain figure (my benchmark is usually 50% more than my current annual salary). Your benchmark value may be higher or lower, but either way it should help you gauge market conditions. Also when you're taking a broader market into consideration, be sure to consider quality of life. Yes I may get more money somewhere, but it might be a miserable product/team/culture which reduces the value of that position. Or I might have a shorter commute, fewer hours or more vacation, which would add to the value of the other position.
• aprdm 11y ago
  > you must be ready to walk out when negotiating a raise that's so true...
• edoceo 11y ago
  As a person who decides salary and raise and bonus I would like to hear about your impact. Many requests are because "you need it" or its what's paid elsewhere. Open with: I built the good thing that saves us $5k/mo. My design is clean and easy for a new guy to maintain. My work-product is obviously valuable and from that I deserve financial recognition. When I used to negotiate my own salary I used that approach. one time (in 2001) it worked to take my salary up by $3k/mo - I had only been there 3 months. Be prepared to walk. Remember that recruiters can get you a new gig in weeks. Hold that for 6mo while finding the right one
• ed_blackburn 11y ago
  True story. I was earning £50,000 in London ~ 6 years ago. I asked for a £10K raise after I'd been given more responsibilities and had taken up mentoring duties too. I was given a £5K bonus and told to wait until year end for a £5K salary rise. I wasn't satisfied but was informed that HR had overruled the dev manager. I was offered a lucrative contract as a freelancer, so I resigned. I was immediately offered £70K, another bonus and an improved benefits package, because HR has called my bluff and got it wrong. I walked. Never looked back. Process. It's a killer.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• matt_morgan 11y ago
  I have worked mainly at nonprofits. Some of them with lots of money, some with hardly any, but salaries are always taken from a relatively fixed budget. I've been fortunate that I've rarely had to ask for raises, but my eagerness to ask for more has absolutely been suppressed by the knowledge that if I got it, someone else wouldn't. (Sometimes my salary is coming from the same pool as my team's, even).
• jrs235 11y ago
  Knowing what other companies are actually offering for compensation without actually pursuing an offer. Sites like salary.com and glassdoor are helpful but I don't have a ton of faith in their numbers. EDIT: I want to be certain what I think and claim is market rate is in fact market rate.