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This assumes an inbox is a type of "project" that needs to be "completed". It's structured on the concept of removing messages from my screen until there is not

This assumes an inbox is a type of "project" that needs to be "completed". It's structured on the concept of removing messages from my screen until there is nothing left for me to "do". My inbox is often more of a conversation that I fade in and out of. Sometimes it resembles a facebook feed. Granted, I'm not a type A personality, but not all email is has to be "done" anymore than all reading books need to be "done". They can be continuous reference or contemplation for a time. I guess it depends on if we are talking about work email or personal email. Perhaps even more, it's just about perception.

vidarh 11y ago
I really like emptying my inbox now, but at the same time I sort of agree with you. Inbox's views can give you both, though: You can snooze messages you don't want to deal with right now and space them out based on how soon you think you might want to pay attention to them. Yet you can also at any time go in and look at the full list of messages. It's nice as one more way of figuring out what to prioritise.
Dwolb 11y ago
That assumption is the premise of "Inbox 0" which the author uses for inspiration. It considers email to be a ToDo list that any contact can post to.
mrestko 11y ago
Then don't use it. It's clearly designed for a specific use case and there's no reason to expect that use case to apply to every user of email.
codemac 11y ago
It also highly depends on your office culture around email, and how it affects your personal workflow. At one job, it was like writing letters to fellow warriors across continents. You'd try to be thoughtful, taking a day or more to write really concrete and informational pieces. At another job it was basically the office instant messenger, replies were expected within 10 minutes of almost all email. Having direct reports changes a lot of how you're communicated with as well. Right now I've been using notmuch+org-mode (to do list management that can link to emails, files, websites, etc), and so now I file tasks called "Read X" if it doesn't need immediate response, or archive/mark as read if I don't need to read it. Things that take less than a few minutes I do right away. Once you take things as merely inputs to your personal management system, you no longer have to worry about how an app pushes it's workflow on you, you have an external one. This is why text files/physical papers are amazing - it's the lack of an interface that lets you organize things in whatever fashion makes sense.
ignoramous 11y ago
---- Empirically, the way to do really big things seems to be to start with deceptively small things. Want to dominate microcomputer software? Start by writing a Basic interpreter for a machine with a few thousand users. Want to make the universal web site? Start by building a site for Harvard undergrads to stalk one another. ... I think the way to use these big ideas is not to try to identify a precise point in the future and then ask yourself how to get from here to there, like the popular image of a visionary. You'll be better off if you operate like Columbus and just head in a general westerly direction. Don't try to construct the future like a building, because your current blueprint is almost certainly mistaken. Start with something you know works, and when you expand, expand westward. The popular image of the visionary is someone with a clear view of the future, but empirically it may be better to have a blurry one. ---- Paul Graham, on Frighteningly Ambitious Start-up Ideas. http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
- abcampbell 11y ago
  Do you think no one has fixed email because the problem is too hard, or because there is a lack of creative/ambitious founders?
  - vorador 11y ago
    The main reason is that you need to be backward compatible with 30 years of terrible hacks. That's why there's a ton of vaporware email clients --- there's a huge amount of work that most of your users don't suspect. Full-disclosure: I work at a company building an open source email client (https://nylas.com/N1 https://nylas.com/N1) and an API to simplify email (https://nylas.com/docs https://nylas.com/docs)
    - rabblac 11y ago
      Well, it's from some time that I've been looking for a modern and open source email client, but N1 looks very promising. Little question: do you plan to support PGP?
shostack 11y ago
This is how I've come to use email, but the issue is the lack/limit of easy ways to make sure things don't get lost in the feed. It is easy for stuff to pile up, and that's been a real struggle for me to manage. I've given up on having inbox zero.

vidarh 11y ago

I really like emptying my inbox now, but at the same time I sort of agree with you. Inbox's views can give you both, though: You can snooze messages you don't want to deal with right now and space them out based on how soon you think you might want to pay attention to them. Yet you can also at any time go in and look at the full list of messages. It's nice as one more way of figuring out what to prioritise.

Dwolb 11y ago

That assumption is the premise of "Inbox 0" which the author uses for inspiration. It considers email to be a ToDo list that any contact can post to.

mrestko 11y ago

Then don't use it. It's clearly designed for a specific use case and there's no reason to expect that use case to apply to every user of email.

codemac 11y ago

It also highly depends on your office culture around email, and how it affects your personal workflow. At one job, it was like writing letters to fellow warriors across continents. You'd try to be thoughtful, taking a day or more to write really concrete and informational pieces. At another job it was basically the office instant messenger, replies were expected within 10 minutes of almost all email. Having direct reports changes a lot of how you're communicated with as well. Right now I've been using notmuch+org-mode (to do list management that can link to emails, files, websites, etc), and so now I file tasks called "Read X" if it doesn't need immediate response, or archive/mark as read if I don't need to read it. Things that take less than a few minutes I do right away. Once you take things as merely inputs to your personal management system, you no longer have to worry about how an app pushes it's workflow on you, you have an external one. This is why text files/physical papers are amazing - it's the lack of an interface that lets you organize things in whatever fashion makes sense.

ignoramous 11y ago

---- Empirically, the way to do really big things seems to be to start with deceptively small things. Want to dominate microcomputer software? Start by writing a Basic interpreter for a machine with a few thousand users. Want to make the universal web site? Start by building a site for Harvard undergrads to stalk one another. ... I think the way to use these big ideas is not to try to identify a precise point in the future and then ask yourself how to get from here to there, like the popular image of a visionary. You'll be better off if you operate like Columbus and just head in a general westerly direction. Don't try to construct the future like a building, because your current blueprint is almost certainly mistaken. Start with something you know works, and when you expand, expand westward. The popular image of the visionary is someone with a clear view of the future, but empirically it may be better to have a blurry one. ---- Paul Graham, on Frighteningly Ambitious Start-up Ideas. http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

abcampbell 11y ago
Do you think no one has fixed email because the problem is too hard, or because there is a lack of creative/ambitious founders?
- vorador 11y ago
  The main reason is that you need to be backward compatible with 30 years of terrible hacks. That's why there's a ton of vaporware email clients --- there's a huge amount of work that most of your users don't suspect. Full-disclosure: I work at a company building an open source email client (https://nylas.com/N1 https://nylas.com/N1) and an API to simplify email (https://nylas.com/docs https://nylas.com/docs)
  - rabblac 11y ago
    Well, it's from some time that I've been looking for a modern and open source email client, but N1 looks very promising. Little question: do you plan to support PGP?

shostack 11y ago

This is how I've come to use email, but the issue is the lack/limit of easy ways to make sure things don't get lost in the feed. It is easy for stuff to pile up, and that's been a real struggle for me to manage. I've given up on having inbox zero.