7 ms·

Ultrasound technology lets you touch and manipulate virtual objects

92 points by akrymski 11y ago

jarmitage 11y ago
I've played with one of their kits, it's definitely fun. The level of definition for different textures was surprisingly good as well. Worth noting that you have to orient your hands horizontally to the device like with the Leap Motion to get a consistent result.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  From your account, and looking at the pictures, you need to hold your arm/hand/finger in the air to make this work. How long can you do that before it becomes uncomfortable (aka "gorilla arm")?
  - jarmitage 11y ago
    Good point, although I wasn't using it long enough to know exactly. I imagine you could apply the same rule of thumb as with other gestural controllers. Another aspect of fatigue would be: does the user become fatigued/insensitive to the haptic interaction over time?
- dbyte 11y ago
  How does this compare with what Google[x] has been developing in the RF gesture recognition? In the videos they are using a Leap Motion while G is "suggesting" using your fingers as support.
  - jarmitage 11y ago
    Haven't tried Soli if that's what you're referring to, although I don't see how they compare as Google aren't doing mid-air haptics?
melling 11y ago
Gesture based computing is almost here in some form. Apple, Google, Intel and Microsoft are all working on it: Apple: http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/02/apple-proximity-sensors-patent/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/02/apple-proximity-sensors-patent... Intel Real Sense - http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/realsense-overview.html http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tech... Google's Soli chip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNiZfSsPc0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNiZfSsPc0 Microsoft shipped the Kinect 6 years ago. The need for hand tracking with VR headsets should give it another boost. By the 20th anniversary of Minority Report? http://youtu.be/7SFeCgoep1c http://youtu.be/7SFeCgoep1c
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  Gesture input is ultimately pointless without force feedback, or else you don't feel the interaction and the lack of intuitive feeling makes you want to go back to comfortable interfaces. I remember being really excited for the Wii and swinging my sword for the first time in Legend of Zelda. My sword was blocked; my hand kept moving. Immersion gone.
  - hammock 11y ago
    I don't believe that's true, it may depend on the action. I'm very comfortable pointing a person or animal where to go, and the lack of force feedback doesnt make me want to go up to them and push them into where they ought to be. Bit different than wielding a sword.
  - melling 11y ago
    What you have done is give an example where it would be an improvement to have force feedback. It's a common fallacious way to try and disprove something. It does not mean that this is the general case. Actually, it doesn't matter if it is. If there are a dozen uses without feedback, and 3 dozen uses with feedback, it's still a big win to get the first dozen uses.
    - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
dankohn1 11y ago
I just want someone to figure out how to immobilize muscles so that you can't "push through" the feedback. Then, I can get my full body holodeck.
- kaybe 11y ago
  That sounds scary. (And here we go again, my brain is throwing misuse scenarios at me..)
  - thenomad 11y ago
    Yup. The problem is not designing solid haptics. The problem is designing solid haptics that can't easily kill or maim you.
- aiaf 11y ago
  Controlled magnetic fields!
- goda90 11y ago
  I feel like we'll get to the point of hijacking brain signals first. All the senses are inputted by the computer and all the voluntary muscle movement signals are intercepted before they reach the actual muscle.
mschuster91 11y ago
Awesome. But one thing is still missing: temperature and especially temperature response gradients - like, when you touch a simulated piece of aluminium foil it will adapt to your hand temperature while a "solid steel block" will feel colder than your hand for longer time.
kriro 11y ago
Seems to be great for texture already. I wonder how you can integrate it into the typical VR setting. I'm envisioning some sort of bubble around the person. Or at least I guess you'd need to be surrounded by the ultrasound speakers in some way. Stopping movement is of course also very tricky/tough. Picking up a mug of coffee is a killer app. If that ever works with the right feedback the future is here.
oliv__ 11y ago
All of the examples shown in the video demo look so painfully unrealistic and impractical: every situation seems to beg for an actual, you know, button. Using two fingers to air swipe a virtual knob to bring up the heat when you're cooking? Really? How does that make anything any easier? Even worse: trying to do so while driving. Good luck with that! The technology seems promising but I just don't see it happening for any of the demo'ed use cases.
- tdb7893 11y ago
  Not everything is supposed to be immediately applicable. I'm guessing it will be a while before we start some stuff like this in consumer products but seeing the first steps of it is pretty cool still
- Panoramix 11y ago
  Those demos were painful to watch. This technology has just so many potential applications - some of them might be a big deal. A button and a knob are not among them.
interdrift 11y ago
Was thinking about it yesterday!! Really cool stuff that you got something working!
taliesinb 11y ago
Didn't care much for the article, but the linked Nature Communications paper "Holographic acoustic elements for manipulation of levitated objects" is quite fun: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/full/ncomms9661.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/full/nco... Short 3 minute summary video from the supplementary materials, which has a fair amount of eye-candy: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/extref/ncomms9661-s3.mov http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/extref/n...
Kinnard 11y ago
This makes me think of the description in Genesis of the Universe being created through speech— the Universe is the sustained epiphenomenon of 10 utterances: http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/677029/jewish/Ten-Utterances-of-Creation.htm http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/677029/jewish... . . . also, this is like the coolest thing ever . . .
xjay 11y ago
You could virtually punch someone with this tech. Transduce this! Blind people can feel their way around a user interface, or perhaps a projected face from a 3D door camera.
thaw13579 11y ago
This is great work, but this is another article trying desperately to give one person credit for something that an entire community of researchers has been working on. They go as far to claim ultrasonic haptics was "abandoned" in the 70s and they're the only one working on "in the air" haptics, and yet, a few minutes of searching shows similar work done at University of Tokyo and Disney research: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7593444.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7593444.stm https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/aireal/ https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/aireal/ That said, translating this stuff to a product line is the real challenge, and they seem to be doing impressive stuff there. But priority claims really take away from that.
Grishnakh 11y ago
Ok, when can we expect holodecks, and even better, Quark's holo-suites?

92 points by akrymski 11y ago

I've played with one of their kits, it's definitely fun. The level of definition for different textures was surprisingly good as well. Worth noting that you have to orient your hands horizontally to the device like with the Leap Motion to get a consistent result.

joezydeco 11y ago
From your account, and looking at the pictures, you need to hold your arm/hand/finger in the air to make this work. How long can you do that before it becomes uncomfortable (aka "gorilla arm")?
- jarmitage 11y ago
  Good point, although I wasn't using it long enough to know exactly. I imagine you could apply the same rule of thumb as with other gestural controllers. Another aspect of fatigue would be: does the user become fatigued/insensitive to the haptic interaction over time?
dbyte 11y ago
How does this compare with what Google[x] has been developing in the RF gesture recognition? In the videos they are using a Leap Motion while G is "suggesting" using your fingers as support.
- jarmitage 11y ago
  Haven't tried Soli if that's what you're referring to, although I don't see how they compare as Google aren't doing mid-air haptics?

melling 11y ago

Gesture based computing is almost here in some form. Apple, Google, Intel and Microsoft are all working on it: Apple: http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/02/apple-proximity-sensors-patent/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/02/apple-proximity-sensors-patent... Intel Real Sense - http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/realsense-overview.html http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-tech... Google's Soli chip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNiZfSsPc0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNiZfSsPc0 Microsoft shipped the Kinect 6 years ago. The need for hand tracking with VR headsets should give it another boost. By the 20th anniversary of Minority Report? http://youtu.be/7SFeCgoep1c http://youtu.be/7SFeCgoep1c

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
Gesture input is ultimately pointless without force feedback, or else you don't feel the interaction and the lack of intuitive feeling makes you want to go back to comfortable interfaces. I remember being really excited for the Wii and swinging my sword for the first time in Legend of Zelda. My sword was blocked; my hand kept moving. Immersion gone.
- hammock 11y ago
  I don't believe that's true, it may depend on the action. I'm very comfortable pointing a person or animal where to go, and the lack of force feedback doesnt make me want to go up to them and push them into where they ought to be. Bit different than wielding a sword.
- melling 11y ago
  What you have done is give an example where it would be an improvement to have force feedback. It's a common fallacious way to try and disprove something. It does not mean that this is the general case. Actually, it doesn't matter if it is. If there are a dozen uses without feedback, and 3 dozen uses with feedback, it's still a big win to get the first dozen uses.
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

dankohn1 11y ago

I just want someone to figure out how to immobilize muscles so that you can't "push through" the feedback. Then, I can get my full body holodeck.

kaybe 11y ago
That sounds scary. (And here we go again, my brain is throwing misuse scenarios at me..)
- thenomad 11y ago
  Yup. The problem is not designing solid haptics. The problem is designing solid haptics that can't easily kill or maim you.
aiaf 11y ago
Controlled magnetic fields!
goda90 11y ago
I feel like we'll get to the point of hijacking brain signals first. All the senses are inputted by the computer and all the voluntary muscle movement signals are intercepted before they reach the actual muscle.

mschuster91 11y ago

Awesome. But one thing is still missing: temperature and especially temperature response gradients - like, when you touch a simulated piece of aluminium foil it will adapt to your hand temperature while a "solid steel block" will feel colder than your hand for longer time.

kriro 11y ago

Seems to be great for texture already. I wonder how you can integrate it into the typical VR setting. I'm envisioning some sort of bubble around the person. Or at least I guess you'd need to be surrounded by the ultrasound speakers in some way. Stopping movement is of course also very tricky/tough. Picking up a mug of coffee is a killer app. If that ever works with the right feedback the future is here.

oliv__ 11y ago

All of the examples shown in the video demo look so painfully unrealistic and impractical: every situation seems to beg for an actual, you know, button. Using two fingers to air swipe a virtual knob to bring up the heat when you're cooking? Really? How does that make anything any easier? Even worse: trying to do so while driving. Good luck with that! The technology seems promising but I just don't see it happening for any of the demo'ed use cases.

tdb7893 11y ago
Not everything is supposed to be immediately applicable. I'm guessing it will be a while before we start some stuff like this in consumer products but seeing the first steps of it is pretty cool still
Panoramix 11y ago
Those demos were painful to watch. This technology has just so many potential applications - some of them might be a big deal. A button and a knob are not among them.

interdrift 11y ago

Was thinking about it yesterday!! Really cool stuff that you got something working!

taliesinb 11y ago

Didn't care much for the article, but the linked Nature Communications paper "Holographic acoustic elements for manipulation of levitated objects" is quite fun: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/full/ncomms9661.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/full/nco... Short 3 minute summary video from the supplementary materials, which has a fair amount of eye-candy: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/extref/ncomms9661-s3.mov http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/151027/ncomms9661/extref/n...

Kinnard 11y ago

This makes me think of the description in Genesis of the Universe being created through speech— the Universe is the sustained epiphenomenon of 10 utterances: http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/677029/jewish/Ten-Utterances-of-Creation.htm http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/677029/jewish... . . . also, this is like the coolest thing ever . . .

xjay 11y ago

You could virtually punch someone with this tech. Transduce this! Blind people can feel their way around a user interface, or perhaps a projected face from a 3D door camera.

thaw13579 11y ago

This is great work, but this is another article trying desperately to give one person credit for something that an entire community of researchers has been working on. They go as far to claim ultrasonic haptics was "abandoned" in the 70s and they're the only one working on "in the air" haptics, and yet, a few minutes of searching shows similar work done at University of Tokyo and Disney research: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7593444.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7593444.stm https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/aireal/ https://www.disneyresearch.com/project/aireal/ That said, translating this stuff to a product line is the real challenge, and they seem to be doing impressive stuff there. But priority claims really take away from that.

Grishnakh 11y ago

Ok, when can we expect holodecks, and even better, Quark's holo-suites?