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I was, at one time very recently, very deep in the VR/AR space. It seems to me that there will be quite a bit of time before people accept projectors pointed at

I was, at one time very recently, very deep in the VR/AR space. It seems to me that there will be quite a bit of time before people accept projectors pointed at their eyeballs (or however you want to explain Magic Leap's "digital light field" technology). $800M on $4.33B post- is a big chunk of a company, particularly one that does not have a working product demo yet. Maybe it'll all shake out positively, but I am of the opinion that this is not real. Lastly, all of Magic Leap's demos are very clearly not using wearable hardware (and also not being demonstrated using any kind of light-accurate reproduction). For example, metallic effects usually require "black" as a shade and things like the Lumus Optical lenses cannot reproduce such an effect (despite being basically the cutting edge of lightfield reproduction). In short, I am bearish on Magic Leap. Also, I am super confused as to why Magic Leap is operating their own silicon fab... That seems crazy to me. Edit: Fixed the $'s from VC-land.

mbesto 11y ago
PS - According to Pitchbook, they did $827M on $3.5B pre, $4.33B post.
RangerScience 11y ago
The game video also shows "recoil" and other tactile effects that have to be acted.
hughes 11y ago
> all of Magic Leap's demos are very clearly not using wearable hardware This was pretty clear even their demo from Oct 2015, despite the caption "Shot directly through Magic Leap Technology".
- andygates 11y ago
  ...attached to an optics table, cabled to a dedicated processor and power supply, betcha. It's not lying, it's just marketing and prototypes.
Udik 11y ago
There is some kind of irony in the fact that an augmented reality company seems so successful in presenting investors with an image that nobody else can see. > Maybe it'll all shake out positively, but I am of the opinion that this is not real. But after all, isn't that the whole point of it? :) I wonder what kind of stuff they managed to project in the eyeballs of the VCs.
- josh2600 11y ago
  Cups of coffee...
  - josh2600 11y ago
    I see a bunch of negative votes so I'll expand as I was not trying to be facetious or sarcastic. The first magic leap demo I ever heard of (and, because I'm not under an NDA with them this is all hearsay) was a cup of coffee on a table. Put $WEARABLE on, now there are two cups. Which is real? I can easily imagine that, were this convincing visually, VCs would surrender their wallets with aplomb.
    - christiangenco 11y ago
      It'd be fantastic if it turned out that the Magic Leap demos were all just magic tricks set up to make it seem like it was really advanced VR technology. Ex: in this case, when you put the glasses on there's a moment of not being able to see anything, and they just put another real coffee cup on the table.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  Wouldn't be the first time a bunch of high-profile investors got bilked.
rl3 11y ago
>For example, metallic effects usually require "black" as a shade ... If I recall correctly, MagicLeap has figured out how to effectively render black. It was mentioned in the video below. The technique involved somehow tricking the human visual cortex into seeing black. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s EDIT: Updated with a precise time on the URL.
- kevlened 11y ago
  "We made black with light" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s
  - rl3 11y ago
    That's it. Thanks!
  - IshKebab 11y ago
    Sounds like they just make the non-black stuff brighter. Like how you see "black" on a white projector screen.
  - josh2600 11y ago
    So I saw this, and while I appreciate the conjecture, the narrative sounded unconvincing to me. I think that when we start talking about computational neurobiology, it's hard to sufficiently bound the problem such that computers can model it. Computers are very good at doing stuff that humans know how to do (and repeating it a bajillion times), but it's hard to get computers to do stuff humans don't know how to do (one of the recent interesting expressions of this that is counter to this point is neural networks, but I digress). When he talks about "we made black with light" I feel like someone is playing "hide-the-ball" because I think of black as the absence of light. Perhaps I am just not modeling the problem correctly, but I did not take away anything useful from the comments in this video :(.
replicatorblog 11y ago
Benedict Evans works for one of their investors (A16Z) and has apparently had the demo. If you follow him you know he's not prone to exaggeration and guards his reputation carefully. Here's his take on the demo: https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/656667346837200896 https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/656667346837200896

mbesto 11y ago

PS - According to Pitchbook, they did $827M on $3.5B pre, $4.33B post.

RangerScience 11y ago

The game video also shows "recoil" and other tactile effects that have to be acted.

hughes 11y ago

> all of Magic Leap's demos are very clearly not using wearable hardware This was pretty clear even their demo from Oct 2015, despite the caption "Shot directly through Magic Leap Technology".

andygates 11y ago
...attached to an optics table, cabled to a dedicated processor and power supply, betcha. It's not lying, it's just marketing and prototypes.

Udik 11y ago

There is some kind of irony in the fact that an augmented reality company seems so successful in presenting investors with an image that nobody else can see. > Maybe it'll all shake out positively, but I am of the opinion that this is not real. But after all, isn't that the whole point of it? :) I wonder what kind of stuff they managed to project in the eyeballs of the VCs.

josh2600 11y ago
Cups of coffee...
- josh2600 11y ago
  I see a bunch of negative votes so I'll expand as I was not trying to be facetious or sarcastic. The first magic leap demo I ever heard of (and, because I'm not under an NDA with them this is all hearsay) was a cup of coffee on a table. Put $WEARABLE on, now there are two cups. Which is real? I can easily imagine that, were this convincing visually, VCs would surrender their wallets with aplomb.
  - christiangenco 11y ago
    It'd be fantastic if it turned out that the Magic Leap demos were all just magic tricks set up to make it seem like it was really advanced VR technology. Ex: in this case, when you put the glasses on there's a moment of not being able to see anything, and they just put another real coffee cup on the table.
moron4hire 11y ago
Wouldn't be the first time a bunch of high-profile investors got bilked.

rl3 11y ago

>For example, metallic effects usually require "black" as a shade ... If I recall correctly, MagicLeap has figured out how to effectively render black. It was mentioned in the video below. The technique involved somehow tricking the human visual cortex into seeing black. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s EDIT: Updated with a precise time on the URL.

kevlened 11y ago
"We made black with light" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHSIEx69TQ&t=35m18s
- rl3 11y ago
  That's it. Thanks!
- IshKebab 11y ago
  Sounds like they just make the non-black stuff brighter. Like how you see "black" on a white projector screen.
- josh2600 11y ago
  So I saw this, and while I appreciate the conjecture, the narrative sounded unconvincing to me. I think that when we start talking about computational neurobiology, it's hard to sufficiently bound the problem such that computers can model it. Computers are very good at doing stuff that humans know how to do (and repeating it a bajillion times), but it's hard to get computers to do stuff humans don't know how to do (one of the recent interesting expressions of this that is counter to this point is neural networks, but I digress). When he talks about "we made black with light" I feel like someone is playing "hide-the-ball" because I think of black as the absence of light. Perhaps I am just not modeling the problem correctly, but I did not take away anything useful from the comments in this video :(.

replicatorblog 11y ago

Benedict Evans works for one of their investors (A16Z) and has apparently had the demo. If you follow him you know he's not prone to exaggeration and guards his reputation carefully. Here's his take on the demo: https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/656667346837200896 https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/656667346837200896