7 ms·

The Other Children of Silicon Valley

44 points by kelukelugames 11y ago

mc32 11y ago
Dont judge everyone by SV standards. Lots of kids in America, black, rural citizens, etc. Don't get anything before kindergarten. What people are doing is comparing the poorest to the the expectations of tigermoms. Don't. Fist thing is to teach patents they are the crux of their child's success. School can't teach success if a parent does not offer support in return. Yes, some will succeed despite that. Yes we should improve educational opportunities for our own children, but much of it rests on parents and their view on education. "why do we need to learn calc?" Also, to be clear, some affluent parents question the need for tigermom type education so early and will " red shirt" their children/pupils. Unfortunately, this article is more interested in exposing income disparity, which is good, but its dressing it under scholatoc achievement.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jonathankoren 11y ago
  > What people are doing is comparing the poorest to the the expectations of tigermoms. Don't. [First] thing is to teach [parents] they are the crux of their child's success. [...] > Unfortunately, this article is more interested in exposing income disparity, which is good, but its dressing it under [scholastic] achievement This is an incredibly patronizing statement, followed by an equally delusional one. Let's unpack them. The first one hinges on the assumption that poor parents don't understand that "they are the crux of their child's success". With the notable exception of the rare completely unfit parent, every parent already knows this. Parents have known this since the beginning of time. This is then followed with a dismissal of the how wealth inequality effects education and thus lifetime gains. "If only the poors went to college!" It's a very common sentiment, but that doesn't mean that it's right. It stems from the mistaken belief that everyone gets what they deserve because society is a pure meritocracy. It's the same sentiment where a multibillion dollar company built on the backs of minimum wage labor tells their employees that if they don't buy gum, they're money problems will be over.[1] Whereas in the real world, "being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs"[2]. The reason why poor parents aren't sending their kid to preschool, is because they don't have an extra $15,000 laying around in their bank account. The reason why poor kids underperform in school can all be tracked back to wealth. The distraction of hunger[3], lead paint in homes, and even under resourced schools because... the schools are funded by local property taxes , thus ensuring that the poor remain disadvantaged to the rich. (And if you seriously believe it's all just effort, put your kid the poorest public school in your area.) [1] http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-is-laughable-but-its-implications-are-not-cm261920 http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-... [2] http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ [3] http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_sarasohn/index.ssf/2011/09/a_growling_stomach_tends_to_di.html http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_sarasohn/inde...
  - its2complicated 11y ago
    Wealth has nothing to do with poor kids under performing in school. It has to do with not having a father in the house and the proper values being taught. There's no hungry kids starving and being saved by the Federal School Lunch Program, and there's not any lead paint on the walls of the public housing, and schools have plenty of resources as evidenced by the multi-million dollar budgets the districts have. But leave it up to the Leftist to ride in to the rescue spouting off about the poor being disadvantaged. There are poor people, but most are just sponging off the welfare system. And these people can get jobs and school loans just like I and others have done. And you know what? Welfare and school loans are there to help these people, and effort has a lot to do with their making it!
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonesb6 11y ago
    "notable exception of the rare completely unfit parent" If you think unfit parents are rare you should talk to a social worker, police officer, or nurse, they will be able to bury you with heartbreaking stories of what life is like for a very large number of people who are predominantly poor.
    - jonathankoren 11y ago
      My point was more that even unfit parents tend to recognize the role of parents. They're just not good at it. (eg "I'm a good parent! I take care of my kids just fine!")
      - jonesb6 11y ago
        I'm more inclined to believe unfit parents are unfit because they care more about themselves then their children. Their worried about their own problems and not introspectively critiquing their own parenting... Edit: totally misread your comment, yup I agree. I think I just took the extreme of what you originally said (that unfit parents are rare), my bad.
matthewbauer 11y ago
Has early childhood education ever been shown to be effective? From what I've read, students with pre kindergarten were indistinguishable academically from students without it by about 3rd grade. I think we could help ourselves out a lot by focusing more on high school success and less on pre-K/elementary school success.
- mc32 11y ago
  The article admits as much but hedges this by saying it may help to counter bad parenting by poor parents --which is dubious, since they offer no evidence. It's more of a feelgood/guilt piece. What we should do is have programs to make better parents. If they have children, make them take nurture programs, etc. I know, they don't have time... But they have time to want to raise children. When pregnancy and parenting is by and large by choice, given they are talking about "families" we should come to expect more from parents in rearing their children, poor or wealthy.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    The problem with such programs is that they are also discriminatory in some ways. Set aside the differences in culture, just the amount of time and logistics that some lower-income people spend just to live their lives. Add to that the requirement to go to some kind of classes (or suffer some kind of unspecified consequences if I read "make them" as having some kind of teeth) and you can get to an unsolvable situation for some. I volunteer occasionally at my young kids' public school and I'm saddened to see the differences in time that parents [/guardians] spend with their kids. It's readily apparent in the kids' behavior, even in pre-K and first grade.
    - mc32 11y ago
      For citizens it should be the duty az a parent, for immigrants it could be a condition of admission into country.
- eitally 11y ago
  It depends how you define effectiveness. Academic is just one. I think it's equally important to consider that daycare/preschool allow two income households that might not be possible otherwise. That also ends up leading to increased parent involvement, which leads to increased academic success.
mhuangw 11y ago
Education really seems like more and more of an arms race. Makes me kind of apprehensive to have children if I end up getting sucked into this kind of system.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  seeing this madness is part of the reason i don't have kids, and probably will never.
its2complicated 11y ago
When the Leftists run out of news stories they can always find a story about the income gap, immigrants getting screwed, the poor Muslims, or some other "it aint fair" nonsense. Throw this one in the bin and move along.
wwwong 11y ago
I'll just be blunt. Unfortunate that this tech boom has done almost nothing for the black, hispanic and other communities. ...aside from mostly being pushed out of historic community neighborhoods.
- cbeach 11y ago
  Historically they were white
  - rawTruthHurts 11y ago
    Up to which point in history?
- paulddraper 11y ago
  It's done a lot for the Indian communities. And the CJK communities. I'm not sure what "other" is exactly.

44 points by kelukelugames 11y ago

mc32 11y ago

Dont judge everyone by SV standards. Lots of kids in America, black, rural citizens, etc. Don't get anything before kindergarten. What people are doing is comparing the poorest to the the expectations of tigermoms. Don't. Fist thing is to teach patents they are the crux of their child's success. School can't teach success if a parent does not offer support in return. Yes, some will succeed despite that. Yes we should improve educational opportunities for our own children, but much of it rests on parents and their view on education. "why do we need to learn calc?" Also, to be clear, some affluent parents question the need for tigermom type education so early and will " red shirt" their children/pupils. Unfortunately, this article is more interested in exposing income disparity, which is good, but its dressing it under scholatoc achievement.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jonathankoren 11y ago
> What people are doing is comparing the poorest to the the expectations of tigermoms. Don't. [First] thing is to teach [parents] they are the crux of their child's success. [...] > Unfortunately, this article is more interested in exposing income disparity, which is good, but its dressing it under [scholastic] achievement This is an incredibly patronizing statement, followed by an equally delusional one. Let's unpack them. The first one hinges on the assumption that poor parents don't understand that "they are the crux of their child's success". With the notable exception of the rare completely unfit parent, every parent already knows this. Parents have known this since the beginning of time. This is then followed with a dismissal of the how wealth inequality effects education and thus lifetime gains. "If only the poors went to college!" It's a very common sentiment, but that doesn't mean that it's right. It stems from the mistaken belief that everyone gets what they deserve because society is a pure meritocracy. It's the same sentiment where a multibillion dollar company built on the backs of minimum wage labor tells their employees that if they don't buy gum, they're money problems will be over.[1] Whereas in the real world, "being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs"[2]. The reason why poor parents aren't sending their kid to preschool, is because they don't have an extra $15,000 laying around in their bank account. The reason why poor kids underperform in school can all be tracked back to wealth. The distraction of hunger[3], lead paint in homes, and even under resourced schools because... the schools are funded by local property taxes , thus ensuring that the poor remain disadvantaged to the rich. (And if you seriously believe it's all just effort, put your kid the poorest public school in your area.) [1] http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-is-laughable-but-its-implications-are-not-cm261920 http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-... [2] http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ [3] http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_sarasohn/index.ssf/2011/09/a_growling_stomach_tends_to_di.html http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_sarasohn/inde...
- its2complicated 11y ago
  Wealth has nothing to do with poor kids under performing in school. It has to do with not having a father in the house and the proper values being taught. There's no hungry kids starving and being saved by the Federal School Lunch Program, and there's not any lead paint on the walls of the public housing, and schools have plenty of resources as evidenced by the multi-million dollar budgets the districts have. But leave it up to the Leftist to ride in to the rescue spouting off about the poor being disadvantaged. There are poor people, but most are just sponging off the welfare system. And these people can get jobs and school loans just like I and others have done. And you know what? Welfare and school loans are there to help these people, and effort has a lot to do with their making it!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jonesb6 11y ago
  "notable exception of the rare completely unfit parent" If you think unfit parents are rare you should talk to a social worker, police officer, or nurse, they will be able to bury you with heartbreaking stories of what life is like for a very large number of people who are predominantly poor.
  - jonathankoren 11y ago
    My point was more that even unfit parents tend to recognize the role of parents. They're just not good at it. (eg "I'm a good parent! I take care of my kids just fine!")
    - jonesb6 11y ago
      I'm more inclined to believe unfit parents are unfit because they care more about themselves then their children. Their worried about their own problems and not introspectively critiquing their own parenting... Edit: totally misread your comment, yup I agree. I think I just took the extreme of what you originally said (that unfit parents are rare), my bad.

matthewbauer 11y ago

Has early childhood education ever been shown to be effective? From what I've read, students with pre kindergarten were indistinguishable academically from students without it by about 3rd grade. I think we could help ourselves out a lot by focusing more on high school success and less on pre-K/elementary school success.

mc32 11y ago
The article admits as much but hedges this by saying it may help to counter bad parenting by poor parents --which is dubious, since they offer no evidence. It's more of a feelgood/guilt piece. What we should do is have programs to make better parents. If they have children, make them take nurture programs, etc. I know, they don't have time... But they have time to want to raise children. When pregnancy and parenting is by and large by choice, given they are talking about "families" we should come to expect more from parents in rearing their children, poor or wealthy.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  The problem with such programs is that they are also discriminatory in some ways. Set aside the differences in culture, just the amount of time and logistics that some lower-income people spend just to live their lives. Add to that the requirement to go to some kind of classes (or suffer some kind of unspecified consequences if I read "make them" as having some kind of teeth) and you can get to an unsolvable situation for some. I volunteer occasionally at my young kids' public school and I'm saddened to see the differences in time that parents [/guardians] spend with their kids. It's readily apparent in the kids' behavior, even in pre-K and first grade.
  - mc32 11y ago
    For citizens it should be the duty az a parent, for immigrants it could be a condition of admission into country.
eitally 11y ago
It depends how you define effectiveness. Academic is just one. I think it's equally important to consider that daycare/preschool allow two income households that might not be possible otherwise. That also ends up leading to increased parent involvement, which leads to increased academic success.

mhuangw 11y ago

Education really seems like more and more of an arms race. Makes me kind of apprehensive to have children if I end up getting sucked into this kind of system.

beachstartup 11y ago
seeing this madness is part of the reason i don't have kids, and probably will never.

its2complicated 11y ago

When the Leftists run out of news stories they can always find a story about the income gap, immigrants getting screwed, the poor Muslims, or some other "it aint fair" nonsense. Throw this one in the bin and move along.

wwwong 11y ago

I'll just be blunt. Unfortunate that this tech boom has done almost nothing for the black, hispanic and other communities. ...aside from mostly being pushed out of historic community neighborhoods.

cbeach 11y ago
Historically they were white
- rawTruthHurts 11y ago
  Up to which point in history?
paulddraper 11y ago
It's done a lot for the Indian communities. And the CJK communities. I'm not sure what "other" is exactly.