4 ms·

> Americas biggest problem in the inner cities. This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other

> Americas biggest problem in the inner cities. This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. The police aren't cracking down because they "have to". They're cracking down (e.g. stop and frisk) because they're power hungry and ignorant. As someone who's lived in all manner of socioeconomic areas of the US, I would say without hesitation that the biggest problem here is the cost of healthcare, education and housing. NOT any segment of the population.

tptacek 11y ago
It's really not true that if you act respectfully in Englewood or North Lawndale that you'll be left alone.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  It is true (as true as it can be anywhere). By all means keep making blanket generalizations though because it keeps neighborhoods like that cheap for people like me to live in. I've spent > decade living in "ghettos" and not once have had an incident with the locals. I have however been harassed by cops many times regardless of the neighborhood I'm in.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    I've been fucked with in high-crime neighborhoods in Chicago far more often than I've been fucked with by police (both have happened). I don't think it's particularly good advice to tell people that they're safe in bad neighborhoods as long as they're "respectful".
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      My experience definitely does not match yours, poor people are just like everyone else and I actually find the communities in areas like that to be MUCH stronger if you take the time to get to know people.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        I agree with you; I think there are some amazing strong communities all across the poorer areas of Chicago. But there are also people who will fuck with you there. The communities don't support them; in fact, on the west side (where I live), they put up signs on every block saying they want to chase those people away. Ask people who bike from the loop to Oak Park if they've ever been fucked with in Lawndale. I have a friend who was ambushed and knocked off his bike right by Garfield Park. I have never been mugged in Lakeview. I have been mugged in Austin. Dangerous neighborhoods aren't a classist myth. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that part of "respecting" the poorer neighborhoods is not pretending like you can walk in front of a crowd of young men hanging out on a corner as if you have just as much a right to be there as they do.
        exstudent2 11y ago
        > I've come to the conclusion that part of "respecting" the poorer neighborhoods is not pretending like you can walk in front of a crowd of young men hanging out on a corner as if you have just as much a right to be there as they do. Well this is part of what I mean by treating people respectfully. As an outsider I always respected that the locals "owned" the neighborhood. You have to be cognizant of the local culture and try not to clash with it. Any neighborhood can be "dangerous". I'm pretty sure you're more likely to get in a car wreck in the suburbs than mugged in the inner city. Just as you have to practice safe driving in the suburbs, you have to be careful of different things in the inner city.
        kasey_junk 11y ago
        I think the truth is somewhere between your guys' position. There is a very real statistical difference between the crime rates between neighborhoods. But its also true that the actual incident rate is much exaggerated by the media and perceptions of neighborhood differences are greater than reality. One thing that is for sure, young black teens/men have a much, much more dangerous time of it, regardless of neighborhood than anyone else, and that is tragic. And while we are adding anecdotes to the thread, I've lived in a "bad" neighborhood on Chicago's South Side for over a decade and I've never had a single violent incident (property crime has occurred). In that same span I was attacked in Lincoln Park and Streeterville, and had an attempted bicycle incident near McCormick Place. I routinely walk in front of crowds of young men hanging on corners (its daily for me as I pass by a couple of schools) and have never had an incident (and I in fact know many of those young men). But there are also neighborhoods less than a mile away where I would not be comfortable doing that.
rhino369 11y ago
>This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. I've lived in downtown areas of Chicago and DC, but never what people mean when they say "inner city" (i.e. ghetto). They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. Criminals murder and steal from the people who live there at alarming rates. They don't really leave the ghetto (other than one summer when kids did flash mobs in Chicago). So I could live in Chicago and feel entirely safe. But last time I spent time in Englewood--a woman I was meeting with had her car broken into within 15minutes of parking on a major intersection. >As someone who's lived in all manner of socioeconomic areas of the US, I would say without hesitation that the biggest problem here is the cost of healthcare, education and housing. These are extremely middle class problems. Most people don't need or want a post-secondary education. 85% people have healthcare coverage. Housing is only bad in a few upper middle class areas.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  > They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. No "they" won't. Sorry your friend's car got broken into but that happens everywhere, not just the inner city. > 85% people have healthcare coverage. Pretty sure it's not the middle class that's not insured. Also rent prices absolutely are a poor problem. That's what gentrification is all about.
  - ianamartin 11y ago
    Your whole series of comments in this topic seem to be along the lines of, "Don't be a dick and nothing bad will happen to you." Maybe that's been your experience, and I'm not going to call you a liar. But that's simply not the case for everyone. I moved to Brooklyn from Texas last June. Moved to a part of Crown Heights that my coworkers said was probably fine. Kind of on the edge of where things get genuinely sketchy. Yes, I'm from Texas, and I'm white. My GF says I'm the whitest person she's ever dated by far. Not sure what that means, but apparently I stick out like a sore thumb of white-ness. Maybe that's some of it. I don't know. But the guys at the corner grocery/deli/convenience stores wouldn't sell anything to me. Not even water. There were a lot of gunshots on the block in the evenings. I really hated walking home after working late--and it being a startup I was working for, that was almost every night. At the end of my second week there, I was up on the roof of the building having a smoke (because I was tired of being harassed by everyone in the neighborhood when I would go smoke out on the stoop, and I just wanted to smoke a damn smoke without having to talk or listen to anyone) a couple of cops walked up to a guy (guess what color his skin was), chatted with him for a minute or so and then shot him. Twice in the torso, and then after he was on the ground, once in the face. Right in front of my place. When the crime report got to the news, it was literally my address they used when they said, "A man was shot last night just outside #xxx Troy Ave. in Crown Heights" That, at least somewhat understandably, pissed the neighborhood off. For a week after that, thugs were stabbing people coming off the 4 train at Franklin during rush hour. Just stabbing white people. Not even mugging them. I was getting off two stops from there and ubering home for the remaining week I lived there before I moved to a different place. A place that has about the same racial makeup. I'm still in the minority by a long shot. But the culture is entirely different, and a much happier place. A mere 2.8 miles from where I was living. NYC is such a weird place. I am not a jerk to anyone, and I'm not the racist you might think I am because I'm from Texas. I had a remarkably multi-cultural upbringing, considering where I grew up. But the reality is that there are places where simply being white can get you in trouble. Please understand I'm not complaining about this. The fact of the matter is that there are far fewer places in this country where being white can get you in trouble than there are places where being black can get you in trouble. I get that, and I'm not all that upset about it. Except for the cops shooting the guy for apparently no reason. That part does upset me. My point is that you are simply wrong with your assertions that all you have to do is "respect the neighborhood" or whatever. That's bad advice for very many people.

tptacek 11y ago

It's really not true that if you act respectfully in Englewood or North Lawndale that you'll be left alone.

exstudent2 11y ago
It is true (as true as it can be anywhere). By all means keep making blanket generalizations though because it keeps neighborhoods like that cheap for people like me to live in. I've spent > decade living in "ghettos" and not once have had an incident with the locals. I have however been harassed by cops many times regardless of the neighborhood I'm in.
- tptacek 11y ago
  I've been fucked with in high-crime neighborhoods in Chicago far more often than I've been fucked with by police (both have happened). I don't think it's particularly good advice to tell people that they're safe in bad neighborhoods as long as they're "respectful".
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    My experience definitely does not match yours, poor people are just like everyone else and I actually find the communities in areas like that to be MUCH stronger if you take the time to get to know people.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      I agree with you; I think there are some amazing strong communities all across the poorer areas of Chicago. But there are also people who will fuck with you there. The communities don't support them; in fact, on the west side (where I live), they put up signs on every block saying they want to chase those people away. Ask people who bike from the loop to Oak Park if they've ever been fucked with in Lawndale. I have a friend who was ambushed and knocked off his bike right by Garfield Park. I have never been mugged in Lakeview. I have been mugged in Austin. Dangerous neighborhoods aren't a classist myth. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that part of "respecting" the poorer neighborhoods is not pretending like you can walk in front of a crowd of young men hanging out on a corner as if you have just as much a right to be there as they do.
      - exstudent2 11y ago
        > I've come to the conclusion that part of "respecting" the poorer neighborhoods is not pretending like you can walk in front of a crowd of young men hanging out on a corner as if you have just as much a right to be there as they do. Well this is part of what I mean by treating people respectfully. As an outsider I always respected that the locals "owned" the neighborhood. You have to be cognizant of the local culture and try not to clash with it. Any neighborhood can be "dangerous". I'm pretty sure you're more likely to get in a car wreck in the suburbs than mugged in the inner city. Just as you have to practice safe driving in the suburbs, you have to be careful of different things in the inner city.
      - kasey_junk 11y ago
        I think the truth is somewhere between your guys' position. There is a very real statistical difference between the crime rates between neighborhoods. But its also true that the actual incident rate is much exaggerated by the media and perceptions of neighborhood differences are greater than reality. One thing that is for sure, young black teens/men have a much, much more dangerous time of it, regardless of neighborhood than anyone else, and that is tragic. And while we are adding anecdotes to the thread, I've lived in a "bad" neighborhood on Chicago's South Side for over a decade and I've never had a single violent incident (property crime has occurred). In that same span I was attacked in Lincoln Park and Streeterville, and had an attempted bicycle incident near McCormick Place. I routinely walk in front of crowds of young men hanging on corners (its daily for me as I pass by a couple of schools) and have never had an incident (and I in fact know many of those young men). But there are also neighborhoods less than a mile away where I would not be comfortable doing that.

rhino369 11y ago

>This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. I've lived in downtown areas of Chicago and DC, but never what people mean when they say "inner city" (i.e. ghetto). They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. Criminals murder and steal from the people who live there at alarming rates. They don't really leave the ghetto (other than one summer when kids did flash mobs in Chicago). So I could live in Chicago and feel entirely safe. But last time I spent time in Englewood--a woman I was meeting with had her car broken into within 15minutes of parking on a major intersection. >As someone who's lived in all manner of socioeconomic areas of the US, I would say without hesitation that the biggest problem here is the cost of healthcare, education and housing. These are extremely middle class problems. Most people don't need or want a post-secondary education. 85% people have healthcare coverage. Housing is only bad in a few upper middle class areas.

exstudent2 11y ago
> They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. No "they" won't. Sorry your friend's car got broken into but that happens everywhere, not just the inner city. > 85% people have healthcare coverage. Pretty sure it's not the middle class that's not insured. Also rent prices absolutely are a poor problem. That's what gentrification is all about.
- ianamartin 11y ago
  Your whole series of comments in this topic seem to be along the lines of, "Don't be a dick and nothing bad will happen to you." Maybe that's been your experience, and I'm not going to call you a liar. But that's simply not the case for everyone. I moved to Brooklyn from Texas last June. Moved to a part of Crown Heights that my coworkers said was probably fine. Kind of on the edge of where things get genuinely sketchy. Yes, I'm from Texas, and I'm white. My GF says I'm the whitest person she's ever dated by far. Not sure what that means, but apparently I stick out like a sore thumb of white-ness. Maybe that's some of it. I don't know. But the guys at the corner grocery/deli/convenience stores wouldn't sell anything to me. Not even water. There were a lot of gunshots on the block in the evenings. I really hated walking home after working late--and it being a startup I was working for, that was almost every night. At the end of my second week there, I was up on the roof of the building having a smoke (because I was tired of being harassed by everyone in the neighborhood when I would go smoke out on the stoop, and I just wanted to smoke a damn smoke without having to talk or listen to anyone) a couple of cops walked up to a guy (guess what color his skin was), chatted with him for a minute or so and then shot him. Twice in the torso, and then after he was on the ground, once in the face. Right in front of my place. When the crime report got to the news, it was literally my address they used when they said, "A man was shot last night just outside #xxx Troy Ave. in Crown Heights" That, at least somewhat understandably, pissed the neighborhood off. For a week after that, thugs were stabbing people coming off the 4 train at Franklin during rush hour. Just stabbing white people. Not even mugging them. I was getting off two stops from there and ubering home for the remaining week I lived there before I moved to a different place. A place that has about the same racial makeup. I'm still in the minority by a long shot. But the culture is entirely different, and a much happier place. A mere 2.8 miles from where I was living. NYC is such a weird place. I am not a jerk to anyone, and I'm not the racist you might think I am because I'm from Texas. I had a remarkably multi-cultural upbringing, considering where I grew up. But the reality is that there are places where simply being white can get you in trouble. Please understand I'm not complaining about this. The fact of the matter is that there are far fewer places in this country where being white can get you in trouble than there are places where being black can get you in trouble. I get that, and I'm not all that upset about it. Except for the cops shooting the guy for apparently no reason. That part does upset me. My point is that you are simply wrong with your assertions that all you have to do is "respect the neighborhood" or whatever. That's bad advice for very many people.