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I think that's the point of the Valley, isn't it? That you can try to do something stupid and people will give you the benefit of the doubt? Idk about you but I

I think that's the point of the Valley, isn't it? That you can try to do something stupid and people will give you the benefit of the doubt? Idk about you but I made $6k off AirBnB last quarter, which was nice, so I'm not complaining. That's a big obvious one, but I could probably list 20 others from the area that have affected me in a positive way. (My point being that sometimes something great comes out of what seems dumb, as is well known.) I don't disagree at all that serious looks at what went wrong are very, very useful to everyone else, but I personally like that Silicon Valley is a sort of safe space for experimenting with dumb ideas where people won't make a big deal out of it if one or more of your ideas don't work out.

tahoeskibum 11y ago
Nicely put. I like Valley for the same reason, it is a safe space to try out stuff and see what sticks. Uber saved my ass in London when I got stuck as the public transportation doessn't accept cash or credit (only the special Oyster Card). The hype needs to be taken with a grain of salt but there are some really valuable and useful startups out there. P.S. I too made ~ $6K last quarter on AirBnB.
- bboreham 11y ago
  There are machines at every station that will accept your cash or credit card and give you a paper ticket in return. Or give you an Oyster Card, for that matter.
  - tahoeskibum 11y ago
    I was trying to take a bus from a regular bus stop around 7 pm. Nearby shops where I could've bought a card were closed by then (in that part of London).
nickpsecurity 11y ago
You didn't counter his assertions at all. The first thing is anecdotal and meaningless: give me a person who benefits from most I can give you someone who doesn't. Overall data is more important. This is about startup companies, though, not individuals. Back on startups. Sure, it's great that you can experiment. We can still experiment while calling bullshit when we see it. There's a huge gap between "They're trying something we think might be cool or make it but ton of risk here as prior examples illustrate" and "World-changing app here whose initial uptake indicates billions in making and any problems are just a hiccup! Get it today!" A bit more of the former will at least let people spot problem areas and maybe avoid them more often.
- volaski 11y ago
  "Avoiding problem areas" is the last thing you should do if you're working on a startup. It's a good thing that people make stupid mistakes because sometimes something extraordinary comes out of them. If everyone acted in conservative manner because they don't want to make mistakes and be called an idiot by others, we will have much slower innovation.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    You going to build a bunch of services on Gopher protocol anytime soon? Require people pay large amounts of money upfront for stuff they usually get free? Expect no browser? Do a mobile solution that requires a specific device rather than smartphone? There's all kinds of products that failed for specific, sometimes-lasting reasons. You should avoid them in your next startup if those reasons or contexts still apply. Otherwise, your startup's chance of failure just skyrocketed with little justification. " If everyone acted in conservative manner because they don't want to make mistakes and be called an idiot by others, we will have much slower innovation." That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. I'm saying people shouldn't act in an ignorant manner when confronted with data saying they'll have problems, are having problems, or totally failed. They can be conservative or risk-takers. They just better keep lessons of history and business reality of their market in mind when making their decisions. It's considered common sense in other aspects of life.
    - volaski 11y ago
      > You going to build a bunch of services on Gopher protocol anytime soon? Require people pay large amounts of money upfront for stuff they usually get free? Expect no browser? Do a mobile solution that requires a specific device rather than smartphone? Yes. This is exactly what I am talking about. While most people won't bother to try, there will be some people who keep on trying. Most experts will say the same thing: "This and that company already tried this and failed you idiot". But here's why sometimes it works: Startups don't succeed purely based on their absolute value. It's all contextual and relative, which means the same model that didn't work last year may work this year because of how the situation has changed. But nobody knows that until it actually happens. The reason why a lot of disruptive startups are built by inexperienced people just out of college instead of experienced people is because experienced people already know too much and have seen certain models don't work and their thought process is just like you stated. Whereas younger people who have no idea will just try (and most of the times will fail) and sometimes it works because of the right context. In fact your rhetorical questions I quoted above--which you probably meant cynically--are very interesting questions and I encourage that you seriously think them again. You seem to think they're idiotic but I think they are brilliant questions. YES, it is possible that a new model can arise that will make people want to pay for stuff that they usually get for free. Yes, there can be something that completely rethinks how we consume information (not our contemporary browser). Yes, there can be an entirely new device that can replace a smartphone.

tahoeskibum 11y ago

Nicely put. I like Valley for the same reason, it is a safe space to try out stuff and see what sticks. Uber saved my ass in London when I got stuck as the public transportation doessn't accept cash or credit (only the special Oyster Card). The hype needs to be taken with a grain of salt but there are some really valuable and useful startups out there. P.S. I too made ~ $6K last quarter on AirBnB.

bboreham 11y ago
There are machines at every station that will accept your cash or credit card and give you a paper ticket in return. Or give you an Oyster Card, for that matter.
- tahoeskibum 11y ago
  I was trying to take a bus from a regular bus stop around 7 pm. Nearby shops where I could've bought a card were closed by then (in that part of London).

nickpsecurity 11y ago

You didn't counter his assertions at all. The first thing is anecdotal and meaningless: give me a person who benefits from most I can give you someone who doesn't. Overall data is more important. This is about startup companies, though, not individuals. Back on startups. Sure, it's great that you can experiment. We can still experiment while calling bullshit when we see it. There's a huge gap between "They're trying something we think might be cool or make it but ton of risk here as prior examples illustrate" and "World-changing app here whose initial uptake indicates billions in making and any problems are just a hiccup! Get it today!" A bit more of the former will at least let people spot problem areas and maybe avoid them more often.

volaski 11y ago
"Avoiding problem areas" is the last thing you should do if you're working on a startup. It's a good thing that people make stupid mistakes because sometimes something extraordinary comes out of them. If everyone acted in conservative manner because they don't want to make mistakes and be called an idiot by others, we will have much slower innovation.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  You going to build a bunch of services on Gopher protocol anytime soon? Require people pay large amounts of money upfront for stuff they usually get free? Expect no browser? Do a mobile solution that requires a specific device rather than smartphone? There's all kinds of products that failed for specific, sometimes-lasting reasons. You should avoid them in your next startup if those reasons or contexts still apply. Otherwise, your startup's chance of failure just skyrocketed with little justification. " If everyone acted in conservative manner because they don't want to make mistakes and be called an idiot by others, we will have much slower innovation." That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. I'm saying people shouldn't act in an ignorant manner when confronted with data saying they'll have problems, are having problems, or totally failed. They can be conservative or risk-takers. They just better keep lessons of history and business reality of their market in mind when making their decisions. It's considered common sense in other aspects of life.
  - volaski 11y ago
    > You going to build a bunch of services on Gopher protocol anytime soon? Require people pay large amounts of money upfront for stuff they usually get free? Expect no browser? Do a mobile solution that requires a specific device rather than smartphone? Yes. This is exactly what I am talking about. While most people won't bother to try, there will be some people who keep on trying. Most experts will say the same thing: "This and that company already tried this and failed you idiot". But here's why sometimes it works: Startups don't succeed purely based on their absolute value. It's all contextual and relative, which means the same model that didn't work last year may work this year because of how the situation has changed. But nobody knows that until it actually happens. The reason why a lot of disruptive startups are built by inexperienced people just out of college instead of experienced people is because experienced people already know too much and have seen certain models don't work and their thought process is just like you stated. Whereas younger people who have no idea will just try (and most of the times will fail) and sometimes it works because of the right context. In fact your rhetorical questions I quoted above--which you probably meant cynically--are very interesting questions and I encourage that you seriously think them again. You seem to think they're idiotic but I think they are brilliant questions. YES, it is possible that a new model can arise that will make people want to pay for stuff that they usually get for free. Yes, there can be something that completely rethinks how we consume information (not our contemporary browser). Yes, there can be an entirely new device that can replace a smartphone.