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I very much support Tesla's spearheading of electic cars, but the thing that bothers me most is: how well do they work in colder climate? I never seen function

• dagw 11y ago
  Tesla has a specific cold weather package and given that Norway is the biggest market for Tesla on a per population basis and second biggest in terms of absolute numbers, I'm guessing they work well enough in at least slightly colder climates.
  • gdilla 11y ago
    yup. here in chilly Ottawa theres plenty of teslas doing just fine. -25C at times,
    • Turbo_hedgehog 11y ago
      How is it affecting their range though?
      • dagw 11y ago
        There don't seem to any official numbers, but a drop of 25-40% seems to be a common range reported by owners. Of course 'cold' is a very relative term.
    • speg 11y ago
      I've yet to see one here. I've heard of sightings but they aren't so common that you see them regularly.
      • gdilla 11y ago
        I see them in downtown and rockcliffe park.
    • DrScump 11y ago
      They should make a commercial driving down the Rideau Canal.
  • winterchil 11y ago
    Tesla is huge in Norway because of a number of large tax advantages from income tax deductions, to free registration, etc. That being said, they obviously wouldn't sell if they didn't work but I wouldn't look at the popularity there as endorsement of cold weather performance, other factors are at play.
    • crabasa 11y ago
      > I wouldn't look at the popularity there as endorsement of cold weather performance Wow. So tens of thousands of highly educated people in a cold climate country aren't a good enough indicator? What would be?
      • dagw 11y ago
        To be fair he has a bit of point. If you where choosing between a $200k car that's great all year round and a $120k car that was just as good (or better) during the summer month, but worse during the winter month, how much worse would the car have to be before you decided to go for $200k car?
      • hueving 11y ago
        >Wow. So tens of thousands of highly educated people in a cold climate country aren't a good enough indicator? Educated people are the types of people that do a cost analysis taking into account tax incentives and choose the best value, even if cheap. For example, Nissan Leafs are awful compared to other cars at the same sticker price and can hardly make it back and forth to work for a long commute. However, lots of people in the bay have them because: * massive tax credits make it cheap * it gets employees better parking at many offices * free charging at many offices * access to the HOV lane
      • kbenson 11y ago
        Educated people make choices based on all the available information, not a single facet. For example, I imagine the massive[1][2] tax breaks in Norway for Tesla vehicles might sway quite a few people. 1: http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-owners-norway-get-134000-tax-break-which-more-base-price-model-s-1507740 http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-owners-norway-get-134000-tax-br... 2: http://jalopnik.com/heres-why-the-tesla-model-s-is-the-1-selling-car-in-no-1651261025 http://jalopnik.com/heres-why-the-tesla-model-s-is-the-1-sel...
  • bryanlarsen 11y ago
    I imagine most of those sales are in Oslo and other areas in the south of Norway. Oslo is surprisingly warm for such a Northern latitude -- it rarely drops below -5C (23F) there.
• creshal 11y ago
  I asked our Tesla rep the same when we made a test drive. He reassured us that it won't be a problem under warranty, because Tesla replaces all battery failures for free, and "who would drive a car for more than five years anyway? Just get a new one when the warranty expires." We thanked him for his time and did not choose a Tesla. (That was a few years ago, nowadays it's eight years. But still…)
  • ssharp 11y ago
    > who would drive a car for more than five years anyway? Just get a new one when the warranty expires. That sounds ridiculous to me but it's probably a pretty common sentiment with people who spend 100k on a car, considering there are lots of people buying 25k cars who do the same, despite it probably not being a wise financial decision.
    • gambiting 11y ago
      Well, here in UK you structure the lease in such a way you pay 50% of the car's value over 3 years and then get a new one at the end(and just carry on paying). For example you can have a brand new Nissan Juke for like 150 pounds a month. If you make a decent wage it's crazy not to buy new.
      • ssharp 11y ago
        Cars have steep deprecation over the first two years. After that, deprecation flattens out. When you continuously lease every two to three years, you're paying far more depreciation expense than if you kept the car longer or bought used. It's still a value judgement. If you value having a new car every two to three years, which also means you won't be doing maintenance other than oil changes, then you might be willing to pay the extra money.
    • ams6110 11y ago
      Yes, luxury cars are as much a fashion statement as they are transportation. Most owners will want to stay current and will trade the car after a few years even if nothing is wrong with it. Owners just build in the monthly lease or loan payment to their cash flow budget. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, I only buy used cars for cash and have not had a car payment in almost 20 years.
• ProblemFactory 11y ago
  It's not just the batteries: heating the cabin takes considerable energy in -20C, but but the heat is "free" on fuel-burning engines. Hopefully there will be more data available and released in the future, as Tesla and Nissan Leaf have been the best-selling cars in Norway for multiple years in a row. For anecdata, an Uber driver with a Nissan Leaf told me recently that range on very cold days is about half of the summer range.
  • ZeroGravitas 11y ago
    You pay for the heating in increased drag, via the front radiator grill, even when you don't actually want or need the heat. Also worth noting that some, but not all, Leaf's have a more efficient Heat Pump based system which has less impact on the battery.
• pavlov 11y ago
  Cold does affect the batteries. However it's compensated by one nice feature of electric cars: they don't suffer the same kind of cold start problems as traditional cars. As long as the battery isn't dead, the electric engine will be ready to go immediately, regardless of whether it's +30°C or -30°C.
  • ZeroGravitas 11y ago
    The other nice feature many electric cars have is that you can set them to turn on their heating at a pre-arranged time, and (assuming you've got it plugged in outside your home) it'll draw that power from the grid rather than the battery.
  • post_break 11y ago
    When is the last time you've had a cold start issue? I mean even in the coldest climates block heaters are put into place. Cold destroys battery run time, it's physics.
    • ams6110 11y ago
      Since the advent of fuel injection, cold start is no longer really a problem for cars, assuming they have a good battery. Synthetic oil helps, it flows better when cold. And yes block heaters for extreme cold.
    • scurvy 11y ago
      2 this winter with my motorcycle. Cold killed the starter battery. Less of an issue with cars, but the potential is definitely there.
    • JBReefer 11y ago
      Many times in upstate New York, and many more times on my motorcycle
• notatoad 11y ago
  Seeing a Tesla on the road is an everyday occurrence here in Calgary; they seem quite popular despite having only opened a store in the last year or so. There doesn't seem to be any issues with the cold.
• pj_mukh 11y ago
  20% Drop in performance as opposed to 50% in other EV's as reported by the cult following in Norway (https://youtu.be/fsLMlozXjhk?t=52 https://youtu.be/fsLMlozXjhk?t=52).
• devy 11y ago
  Tesla and even EVs in general with battery thermal management (that is pretty much everyone each Nissan LEAF in USA) are working just fine under extreme conditions (cold / hot). Sure the temperature does affect battery range as much as 50%, but you can recuperate some of that via pre-conditioning - that is to warm the batteries to improve the chemistry. I drive an EV myself and living in Northern NJ, temperatures can go below lower teens in some years. After a 30 minutes pre-conditioning, batteries get warmed up to 42F, which would certainly alleviate the range issue. Additionally, ICE cars also suffer on range under cold conditions. [1] [1]: http://www.fleetcarma.com/cold-weather-fuel-efficiency/ http://www.fleetcarma.com/cold-weather-fuel-efficiency/
• NickM 11y ago
  In my understanding, cold should be killing the batteries. Well, depends on what you mean by that. If you're talking about long-term longevity, cold actually helps: lithium-ion cell capacities generally degrade more slowly in cold temperatures. I own a Model S as my only car, and it's worked great for me in winter. Cold temperatures definitely impact range (although this is more due to the extra power requirements of heating the car than anything to do with the batteries themselves). I've experienced maybe a 15% range loss in winter, or maybe as much as 35% in really cold temperatures well below freezing. Shorter trips lose more efficiency because the car doesn't have time to warm up, but then shorter trips usually don't need as much range ;). When the car gets 260+ miles of range on a charge in summer, then even losing 35% still leaves plenty of range for any situations I've found myself in during ~2 years of ownership.
  • listic 11y ago
    Yes, I was primarily worried whether cold does permanent damage to the batteries, and whether running them in cold temperatures is actually within operational parameters/covered by warranty.
    • NickM 11y ago
      Ah, okay. So for lithium-ion cells that are not currently being used, they can withstand extremely cold temperatures with no issues. I believe Tesla used to have wording in their battery warranty that said they wouldn't cover battery damage if you left your car parked in temperatures continuously below -40F for over 24 hours without plugging it in, but that has since been removed (whether due to improved battery chemistry or something else, I'm not sure). Very cold batteries can lose longevity if you charge them without heating them up first, but most electric vehicles have builtin battery heaters, temperature sensors, etc. If you plug in a car to charge, and its battery pack is too cold, the car will first use wall power to warm up the battery, then begin charging once it can safely do so.