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China also makes it illegal to make maps of the country without authorisation. Don't get caught working on OpenStreetMap there.

maybeok 11y ago
Every inch of the earth has been mapped out by satellite and is available with perfect GPS navigation. Too late for that law.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Satellites have made images, but they haven't made proper street maps, which is what you actually need for navigation. Blurry textures on a globe won't tell you how to get to places unless you already know their GPS coördinates.
  - ttflee 11y ago
    TIL, diaeresis is not umlaut.
    - dkbrk 11y ago
      Huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#Engl... > The grave accent and the diaeresis are the only diacritics native to Modern English... The use of both, however, is considered to be largely archaic. The diaeresis mark is sometimes used in English personal first and last names to indicate that two adjacent vowels should be pronounced separately, rather than as a diphthong. Examples include the given names Chloë and Zoë... it is far less commonly used in words such as coöperate and reënter except in a very few publications—notably The New Yorker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_accent#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_accent#English > The grave accent, although not commonly applied to any English words, is sometimes used in poetry and song lyrics to indicate that a vowel usually silent is to be pronounced, in order to fit the rhythm or meter. Most often, it is applied to a word ending with -ed. For instance, the word looked is usually pronounced /ˈlʊkt/ as a single syllable, with the e silent; when written as lookèd, the e is pronounced: /ˈlʊk.ɨd/ look-ed). It can also be used in this capacity to distinguish certain pairs of identically spelled words like the past tense of learn, learned /ˈlɜrnd/, from the adjective learnèd /ˈlɜrn.ɨd/ (for example, "a very learnèd man").
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      It might be archaic usage, but I agree with The New Yorker that coöperative is much more elegant than co-operative or cooperative.
- cjslep 11y ago
  To support you, the USSR had mapped nearly the entire world (presumably with aid of satellites and GPS): "The Soviets made far more detailed maps of some parts of the world. They mapped all of Europe, nearly all of Asia, as well as large parts of North America and northern Africa at 1:100,000 and 1:50,000 scales, which show even more features and fine-grained topography." I sincerely doubt they have any of the China GPS offsets. http://www.wired.com/2015/07/secret-cold-war-maps/ http://www.wired.com/2015/07/secret-cold-war-maps/
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    Sounds like their civilian maps did, though: > Worse, the maps for the masses were deliberately distorted with a special projection that introduced random variations. “The main goal was to crush the contents of maps so it would be impossible to recreate the real geography of a place from the map,” Postnikov tells me. Well-known landmarks like rivers and towns were depicted, but the coordinates, directions, and distances were all off, making them useless for navigation or military planning, should they fall into enemy hands. The cartographer who devised this devious scheme was awarded the State Prize by Stalin.
    - rdtsc 11y ago
      Yes those Soviet era maps were military and classified. They only ended up in popular circulation after a quick retreat, fuckup and corruption that happened when the Soviet forced retreated from the Baltic states. I've heard even US militaryused(uses?) some of those maps for parts of Africa or used then initially in Afghanistan. As nobody else has bothered much to go and cross reference and built detailed maps of those regions in that much detail.
      - kbart 11y ago
        My history teacher claimed she had seen one of these maps and accuracy was unbelievable, there were every minor remote woods path marked only known and used by locals.
  - jaza 11y ago
mc32 11y ago
They make the maps doubly illegal if Taiwan is shown with different colors indicating an independent country ;) never mind the Spratleys, Senkaku, etc.
- qb45 11y ago
  Is this really true? Like all maps you buy in China show Taiwan as part of PRC?
  - rimunroe 11y ago
    That is the official view of China.
    - qb45 11y ago
      Sure, and the official view of Taiwan is (was?) that PRC are rebels within their territory. However, it's one thing to have some "official view" and another thing to brainwash citizens into thinking that these countries really are one, as they practically aren't. I was asking about the latter. For example, some EU regulation classifies snails as fish to make their production eligible for fishing subsidies, but in biology textbooks they still remained molluscs.
  - Cerium 11y ago
    Yes, and China is in the middle of the map.
    - qb45 11y ago
      Oh c'mon, I'm still not sure about parent, but you are obviously trolling. You need to develop some subtlety to be taken seriously.
      - Cerium 11y ago
        Actually, I am completely serious. This is the map on display in Chinese schools: http://www.miniharm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/worldmap.jpg http://www.miniharm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/worldmap....
gbog 11y ago
Aya. Do you think "they" would send the tanks or what? Many things are forbidden by law, and many people do them anyway, because they know it is not /that/ forbidden. And not only in China, it is the same in France for example. So, if you are working on OpenStreetMap in China: if your product is successful, be prepared to have to "drink tea" one day with authorities. They may tell you to use another map, or to comply with some rules, or to run your service from outside, etc.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  As a foreigner you better follow he law, because the government will make an example out of you. Only Chinese companies can drink tea with chinese officials.
  - ttflee 11y ago
    `To drink tea` as a slang in Chinese means to be asked to talk with authority, especially the police, etc., which is generally not regarded as a good thing. Similarly, `to check the water meter` and `to receive a post package` mean the police to come to your door, as the police are thought to be disguised as staff from tap water company/package delivery company, in both cases, you are about to open the door.
- NeutronBoy 11y ago
  > Many things are forbidden by law, and many people do them anyway, because they know it is not /that/ forbidden. And not only in China, it is the same in France for example. China is not a place I'd like to test those boundaries.
kccqzy 11y ago
And it's curious to see this in Apple maps. When I travelled to China, I generally found Apple maps to be superior to Google maps, and it works without a VPN. But as soon as I left China, the Apple map data for much of the Chinese regions simply became garbage. Even major cities are shown as empty areas without features. EDIT: grammar
- ttflee 11y ago
  Apple gets map data for users in China from contractors who have been approved to run GIS businesses, e.g. AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd. BTW, they do not seem to provide world maps so you can only browse and search locations in China when you are in China.

maybeok 11y ago

Every inch of the earth has been mapped out by satellite and is available with perfect GPS navigation. Too late for that law.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Satellites have made images, but they haven't made proper street maps, which is what you actually need for navigation. Blurry textures on a globe won't tell you how to get to places unless you already know their GPS coördinates.
- ttflee 11y ago
  TIL, diaeresis is not umlaut.
  - dkbrk 11y ago
    Huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#Engl... > The grave accent and the diaeresis are the only diacritics native to Modern English... The use of both, however, is considered to be largely archaic. The diaeresis mark is sometimes used in English personal first and last names to indicate that two adjacent vowels should be pronounced separately, rather than as a diphthong. Examples include the given names Chloë and Zoë... it is far less commonly used in words such as coöperate and reënter except in a very few publications—notably The New Yorker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_accent#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_accent#English > The grave accent, although not commonly applied to any English words, is sometimes used in poetry and song lyrics to indicate that a vowel usually silent is to be pronounced, in order to fit the rhythm or meter. Most often, it is applied to a word ending with -ed. For instance, the word looked is usually pronounced /ˈlʊkt/ as a single syllable, with the e silent; when written as lookèd, the e is pronounced: /ˈlʊk.ɨd/ look-ed). It can also be used in this capacity to distinguish certain pairs of identically spelled words like the past tense of learn, learned /ˈlɜrnd/, from the adjective learnèd /ˈlɜrn.ɨd/ (for example, "a very learnèd man").
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    It might be archaic usage, but I agree with The New Yorker that coöperative is much more elegant than co-operative or cooperative.
cjslep 11y ago
To support you, the USSR had mapped nearly the entire world (presumably with aid of satellites and GPS): "The Soviets made far more detailed maps of some parts of the world. They mapped all of Europe, nearly all of Asia, as well as large parts of North America and northern Africa at 1:100,000 and 1:50,000 scales, which show even more features and fine-grained topography." I sincerely doubt they have any of the China GPS offsets. http://www.wired.com/2015/07/secret-cold-war-maps/ http://www.wired.com/2015/07/secret-cold-war-maps/
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Sounds like their civilian maps did, though: > Worse, the maps for the masses were deliberately distorted with a special projection that introduced random variations. “The main goal was to crush the contents of maps so it would be impossible to recreate the real geography of a place from the map,” Postnikov tells me. Well-known landmarks like rivers and towns were depicted, but the coordinates, directions, and distances were all off, making them useless for navigation or military planning, should they fall into enemy hands. The cartographer who devised this devious scheme was awarded the State Prize by Stalin.
  - rdtsc 11y ago
    Yes those Soviet era maps were military and classified. They only ended up in popular circulation after a quick retreat, fuckup and corruption that happened when the Soviet forced retreated from the Baltic states. I've heard even US militaryused(uses?) some of those maps for parts of Africa or used then initially in Afghanistan. As nobody else has bothered much to go and cross reference and built detailed maps of those regions in that much detail.
    - kbart 11y ago
      My history teacher claimed she had seen one of these maps and accuracy was unbelievable, there were every minor remote woods path marked only known and used by locals.
- jaza 11y ago

mc32 11y ago

They make the maps doubly illegal if Taiwan is shown with different colors indicating an independent country ;) never mind the Spratleys, Senkaku, etc.

qb45 11y ago
Is this really true? Like all maps you buy in China show Taiwan as part of PRC?
- rimunroe 11y ago
  That is the official view of China.
  - qb45 11y ago
    Sure, and the official view of Taiwan is (was?) that PRC are rebels within their territory. However, it's one thing to have some "official view" and another thing to brainwash citizens into thinking that these countries really are one, as they practically aren't. I was asking about the latter. For example, some EU regulation classifies snails as fish to make their production eligible for fishing subsidies, but in biology textbooks they still remained molluscs.
- Cerium 11y ago
  Yes, and China is in the middle of the map.
  - qb45 11y ago
    Oh c'mon, I'm still not sure about parent, but you are obviously trolling. You need to develop some subtlety to be taken seriously.
    - Cerium 11y ago
      Actually, I am completely serious. This is the map on display in Chinese schools: http://www.miniharm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/worldmap.jpg http://www.miniharm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/worldmap....

gbog 11y ago

Aya. Do you think "they" would send the tanks or what? Many things are forbidden by law, and many people do them anyway, because they know it is not /that/ forbidden. And not only in China, it is the same in France for example. So, if you are working on OpenStreetMap in China: if your product is successful, be prepared to have to "drink tea" one day with authorities. They may tell you to use another map, or to comply with some rules, or to run your service from outside, etc.

seanmcdirmid 11y ago
As a foreigner you better follow he law, because the government will make an example out of you. Only Chinese companies can drink tea with chinese officials.
- ttflee 11y ago
  `To drink tea` as a slang in Chinese means to be asked to talk with authority, especially the police, etc., which is generally not regarded as a good thing. Similarly, `to check the water meter` and `to receive a post package` mean the police to come to your door, as the police are thought to be disguised as staff from tap water company/package delivery company, in both cases, you are about to open the door.
NeutronBoy 11y ago
> Many things are forbidden by law, and many people do them anyway, because they know it is not /that/ forbidden. And not only in China, it is the same in France for example. China is not a place I'd like to test those boundaries.

kccqzy 11y ago

And it's curious to see this in Apple maps. When I travelled to China, I generally found Apple maps to be superior to Google maps, and it works without a VPN. But as soon as I left China, the Apple map data for much of the Chinese regions simply became garbage. Even major cities are shown as empty areas without features. EDIT: grammar

ttflee 11y ago
Apple gets map data for users in China from contractors who have been approved to run GIS businesses, e.g. AutoNavi Software Co., Ltd. BTW, they do not seem to provide world maps so you can only browse and search locations in China when you are in China.