5 ms·

Asking people to delay pregnancies will reduce some of the burden. I don't think the mosquito-killing gene editing technology is ready for deployment yet...

sandworm101 11y ago
>> mosquito-killing gene editing technology. That cannot be allowed to be a thing. Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. Any society capable of creating such a thing will surely be able to create a vaccine or treatment. That is where energies should be focused.
- jf 11y ago
  Can you go into detail on what you mean by "Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies"?
  - DiabloD3 11y ago
    Important food source for fish and birds for quite a few species. Wiping them out would be a serious error.
    - alextgordon 11y ago
      Important food source or only food source?
      - dalke 11y ago
        ak217 pointed out this article in Nature from 2015 - http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html (emphasis mine): > Many species of insect, spider, salamander, lizard and frog would also lose a primary food source. In one study published last month, researchers tracked insect-eating house martins at a park in Camargue, France, after the area was sprayed with a microbial mosquito-control agent1. They found that the birds produced on average two chicks per nest after spraying, compared with three for birds at control sites. > Most mosquito-eating birds would probably switch to other insects that, post-mosquitoes, might emerge in large numbers to take their place. Other insectivores might not miss them at all: bats feed mostly on moths, and less than 2% of their gut content is mosquitoes. "If you're expending energy," says medical entomologist Janet McAllister of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Fort Collins, Colorado, "are you going to eat the 22-ounce filet-mignon moth or the 6-ounce hamburger mosquito?" > With many options on the menu, it seems that most insect-eaters would not go hungry in a mosquito-free world. There is not enough evidence of ecosystem disruption here to give the eradicators pause for thought.
    - XFrequentist 11y ago
      >Important food source for fish and birds for quite a few species. This is not true, and it's irresponsible to repeat it as fact.
- ak217 11y ago
  > Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. Source please. I am not aware of any study that confirms this statement. See also http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    Go to the north. Wait. Wait until the sky darkens and you are afraid to venture outside. Then say that mosquitoes don't matter. There is some evidence that they consume more caribou, by weight, than the wolves.
    - ak217 11y ago
      So you don't have a source? I went to grad school with a lot of ecologists (not an ecologist myself). I've seen countless presentations about anthropogenic threats to all kinds of ecosystems. I've never seen anything that included mosquitoes as anything but a disease vector, and I've heard numerous opinions saying that mosquitoes are the one class of animal whose absence would not be noticed by the ecosystem. To back that claim up, I have the micro-review in Nature that I linked above. You can find more sources by following the citation web from it. Gene drives are certainly a powerful and dangerous technology. But if you want to argue against using a gene drive on mosquitoes from a scientific standpoint, you need to present scientific evidence.
      - meagain20000 11y ago
        I wonder if we could employ similar technology for lice, bed bugs and roaches. Would be awesome not to have to deal with those pests.
      - pvaldes 11y ago
        > I've never seen anything that included mosquitoes as anything but a disease vector, There are entire branches of ecology studying (among other things) the role of mosquitoes in ecosystems. Limnology for example. > I've heard numerous opinions saying that mosquitoes are the one class of animal whose absence would not be noticed by the ecosystem Define "numerous" I can't understand how somebody could claim that nothing will occur if we wipe an entire "class" of animals comprising more than 3000 species and that are linked with almost all in freshwater ecosystems in its quadruple role of prey, predator, pollinisator and vector. Hundred of species of vertebrates of economic interest to man depend on them, probably.
- manarth 11y ago
  It sounds like scientists thought about it, decided that their niche would quickly be filled by other insects - "Life would continue as before — or even better": - http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html - http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2010/07/scientists-go-ahead-kill-all-the-mosquitoes-the-world-will-be-better-for-it/ http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2010/07/scientists-go-ahead-kil... - https://cogito.cty.jhu.edu/43255/up-for-debate-should-we-eradicate-all-mosquitoes-from-the-world/ https://cogito.cty.jhu.edu/43255/up-for-debate-should-we-era... Of course, whether it's ethically right is worth considering, as is the possibility that the scientists have missed some unintended consequence.
- saalweachter 11y ago
  Eh, from another angle mosquito-killing gene editing (MKGE) is one of the least destructive ways humans can try to kill all mosquitoes. Killing all mosquitoes isn't a new idea or one that we haven't tried putting into practice. For instance, take a look at satellite photos of Long Island sometime[0]. You see all those straight lines dug along the coasts? That's where we destroyed thousands of acres of marshes for the purpose of killing mosquitoes around New York. We also led a pretty destructive campaign against them in the American south, as part of essentially eliminating malaria in the United States. Again, countless wetlands destroyed along with spraying some absurd amount of highly effective pesticides like DDT everywhere. MKGE is like the most environmentally friendly way we've ever tried to kill all mosquitoes. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6098489,-73.448941,1067m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6098489,-73.448941,1067m/dat...
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  Please, get some references saying that this one, domestic and foreign, species is important for any niche on the Americas. Because, well, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
- XFrequentist 11y ago
  >Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. I think people just repeat this dogmatically, it doesn't appear to be true.
- jqm 11y ago
  Here's an important niche mosquitoes fill. Keeping the human population in check... But there are arguments about how necessary this role really is I guess.
  - bayesianhorse 11y ago
    I don't believe they do, because the death rates just aren't that high. Population-limiting factors for Humans have historically been mostly food supply and childhood diseases. I've heard that Malaria wasn't so much of a problem until people where driven into malaria-infested areas due to population growth.
    - bayesianhorse 11y ago
      Today the population limiting factor for Humans seems to be women's education. No kidding, this seems to be the number one factor in birth-rates. The more education women are getting the less babies are born. And I am generally in favor of both, more education and less procreation.
jgh 11y ago
Seems like these guys are pretty close: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543721/with-this-genetic-engineering-technology-theres-no-turning-back/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543721/with-this-geneti... Sounds like it will eliminate malaria and not mosquitos
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  It's already in trials in the wild in the Florida Keys.

sandworm101 11y ago

>> mosquito-killing gene editing technology. That cannot be allowed to be a thing. Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. Any society capable of creating such a thing will surely be able to create a vaccine or treatment. That is where energies should be focused.

jf 11y ago
Can you go into detail on what you mean by "Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies"?
- DiabloD3 11y ago
  Important food source for fish and birds for quite a few species. Wiping them out would be a serious error.
  - alextgordon 11y ago
    Important food source or only food source?
    - dalke 11y ago
      ak217 pointed out this article in Nature from 2015 - http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html (emphasis mine): > Many species of insect, spider, salamander, lizard and frog would also lose a primary food source. In one study published last month, researchers tracked insect-eating house martins at a park in Camargue, France, after the area was sprayed with a microbial mosquito-control agent1. They found that the birds produced on average two chicks per nest after spraying, compared with three for birds at control sites. > Most mosquito-eating birds would probably switch to other insects that, post-mosquitoes, might emerge in large numbers to take their place. Other insectivores might not miss them at all: bats feed mostly on moths, and less than 2% of their gut content is mosquitoes. "If you're expending energy," says medical entomologist Janet McAllister of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Fort Collins, Colorado, "are you going to eat the 22-ounce filet-mignon moth or the 6-ounce hamburger mosquito?" > With many options on the menu, it seems that most insect-eaters would not go hungry in a mosquito-free world. There is not enough evidence of ecosystem disruption here to give the eradicators pause for thought.
  - XFrequentist 11y ago
    >Important food source for fish and birds for quite a few species. This is not true, and it's irresponsible to repeat it as fact.
ak217 11y ago
> Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. Source please. I am not aware of any study that confirms this statement. See also http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Go to the north. Wait. Wait until the sky darkens and you are afraid to venture outside. Then say that mosquitoes don't matter. There is some evidence that they consume more caribou, by weight, than the wolves.
  - ak217 11y ago
    So you don't have a source? I went to grad school with a lot of ecologists (not an ecologist myself). I've seen countless presentations about anthropogenic threats to all kinds of ecosystems. I've never seen anything that included mosquitoes as anything but a disease vector, and I've heard numerous opinions saying that mosquitoes are the one class of animal whose absence would not be noticed by the ecosystem. To back that claim up, I have the micro-review in Nature that I linked above. You can find more sources by following the citation web from it. Gene drives are certainly a powerful and dangerous technology. But if you want to argue against using a gene drive on mosquitoes from a scientific standpoint, you need to present scientific evidence.
    - meagain20000 11y ago
      I wonder if we could employ similar technology for lice, bed bugs and roaches. Would be awesome not to have to deal with those pests.
    - pvaldes 11y ago
      > I've never seen anything that included mosquitoes as anything but a disease vector, There are entire branches of ecology studying (among other things) the role of mosquitoes in ecosystems. Limnology for example. > I've heard numerous opinions saying that mosquitoes are the one class of animal whose absence would not be noticed by the ecosystem Define "numerous" I can't understand how somebody could claim that nothing will occur if we wipe an entire "class" of animals comprising more than 3000 species and that are linked with almost all in freshwater ecosystems in its quadruple role of prey, predator, pollinisator and vector. Hundred of species of vertebrates of economic interest to man depend on them, probably.
manarth 11y ago
It sounds like scientists thought about it, decided that their niche would quickly be filled by other insects - "Life would continue as before — or even better": - http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html - http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2010/07/scientists-go-ahead-kill-all-the-mosquitoes-the-world-will-be-better-for-it/ http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2010/07/scientists-go-ahead-kil... - https://cogito.cty.jhu.edu/43255/up-for-debate-should-we-eradicate-all-mosquitoes-from-the-world/ https://cogito.cty.jhu.edu/43255/up-for-debate-should-we-era... Of course, whether it's ethically right is worth considering, as is the possibility that the scientists have missed some unintended consequence.
saalweachter 11y ago
Eh, from another angle mosquito-killing gene editing (MKGE) is one of the least destructive ways humans can try to kill all mosquitoes. Killing all mosquitoes isn't a new idea or one that we haven't tried putting into practice. For instance, take a look at satellite photos of Long Island sometime[0]. You see all those straight lines dug along the coasts? That's where we destroyed thousands of acres of marshes for the purpose of killing mosquitoes around New York. We also led a pretty destructive campaign against them in the American south, as part of essentially eliminating malaria in the United States. Again, countless wetlands destroyed along with spraying some absurd amount of highly effective pesticides like DDT everywhere. MKGE is like the most environmentally friendly way we've ever tried to kill all mosquitoes. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6098489,-73.448941,1067m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6098489,-73.448941,1067m/dat...
marcosdumay 11y ago
Please, get some references saying that this one, domestic and foreign, species is important for any niche on the Americas. Because, well, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
XFrequentist 11y ago
>Mosquitoes fill an important niche in a great many ecologies. I think people just repeat this dogmatically, it doesn't appear to be true.
jqm 11y ago
Here's an important niche mosquitoes fill. Keeping the human population in check... But there are arguments about how necessary this role really is I guess.
- bayesianhorse 11y ago
  I don't believe they do, because the death rates just aren't that high. Population-limiting factors for Humans have historically been mostly food supply and childhood diseases. I've heard that Malaria wasn't so much of a problem until people where driven into malaria-infested areas due to population growth.
  - bayesianhorse 11y ago
    Today the population limiting factor for Humans seems to be women's education. No kidding, this seems to be the number one factor in birth-rates. The more education women are getting the less babies are born. And I am generally in favor of both, more education and less procreation.

jgh 11y ago

Seems like these guys are pretty close: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543721/with-this-genetic-engineering-technology-theres-no-turning-back/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543721/with-this-geneti... Sounds like it will eliminate malaria and not mosquitos

toomuchtodo 11y ago
It's already in trials in the wild in the Florida Keys.