5 ms·

This sounds very familiar. When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and

by yeureka 11y ago

This sounds very familiar. When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I had lots of ideas and worked in a lot of startups for more than 10 years but now the following phrase from the article describes my situation very well: "Most of the time, potential founders who share my background tend to work at lucrative jobs in finance or tech until they can take care of everyone in their families before they even dream about taking more risks — if they ever get there."

nickff 11y ago
The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. In addition to that, signalling theory would indicate that what classes you take and how well you do are much less important than the university you attend and the faculty you graduate from.
- jhanschoo 11y ago
  Would you say that going to parties outweigh directly networking? Networking might be a benefit, but I'm sure that people go to parties with a different goal in mind, and that the time cost of partying can be better utilized in other ways.
  - aidanlister 11y ago
    In the undergrad university scene that is being discussed I'm having a hard time visualising what "direct networking" would look like. However, I can confidently say there's a big difference in the bond formed between two people chugging beer bongs together vs asking someone in a lecture if they'd like to have lunch. I also think the party scene would be difficult to replicate in terms of the sheer size of your potential network (I make no assertation about the objective quality of that network, but the article suggests it's not what be predisposed to think). Anecdotally, I've got lifelong friends from both camps; but the people I lean on now in my professional development are the people I partied (hard) with at university.
    - colechristensen 11y ago
      I can confirm, I'd place much more value (including monitary- and career- value) on the connections made with people sharing the experience of being an irresponsible young person than I would the connections made during study/projects/"networking" etc. This isn't to say that A) these groups didn't overlap significantly or B) I wish I'd gotten blackout drunk more often; but the social aspect of being forced into close quarters living your life for a few years with peers in your age group is as least of equal value to the "education" part. I've tried to say it in many different ways, but I'll try again: being "graded" constantly and basing huge path-driving decisions on those grades are a huge detriment to people and to society. I and many others would have had a much better, more rewarding, and more valuable experience if the point of Univerity wasn't gathering a dozen metrics a week for several years in a row in order to get a piece of paper.
      - nostrademons 11y ago
        I think the most important part of networking is to do it authentically. If you are naturally a partier, go to parties. If you are naturally studious, study with other people. I made a lot more useful connections with the folks I worked on projects with (or even moreso, folks I met on the Internet) than those I partied with, but that's because I always felt very out-of-place at the blackout-drunk party scene.
        sarciszewski 11y ago
        I tend to grow my network through researching security vulnerabilities in open source projects, even though that's not my goal. :\ (I'm agreeing with your post.)
    - Outdoorsman 11y ago
      Bases on years of experience I would estimate that the "good" jobs, often regardless of the field, are landed as follows: Networking (60% of my "gigs":) Nepotism (10%, maybe more, much less in my case) Proven Ability to Deliver (20%) Good Luck (10%)
    - 11y ago
- semerda 11y ago
  Interesting observation. Anything that creates an emotional bond & takes down walls is going to build long lasting relationships among people. So partying is one of them. Especially if you are at a top school where most of your peers will end up at important places. You want those strong relationships since we all know business is people. Building a network that's reliable is far more than someone you met at a meetup and added them to your LinkedIn. It starts either at school or through some social functions where one can connect on a deeper level than just a title. Maybe this is why it's so much harder to form meaningful bonds later in life. Also makes a good case for formal education and a school that has good signaling ;-)
- peckrob 11y ago
  > The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. This was kind of my experience. I went to university two states away from where I grew up, knowing a grand total of one person there. I had the academic end more or less handled, but my first semester at university was the loneliest I've ever been in my life. I made good grades, but otherwise I was miserable, depressed and lonely. It's easy to meet people in high school. Most high schools are small compared to major universities, and you have classes with those in your grade. Many of them you've been around for years. But now you're thrown into a new setting, with thousands of people. It's hard to make that transition from high school friendships to college friendships. I spent my freshman fall pretty much just going to class and straight back to my dorm. On the weekends I would go to the football game, but that was it. The rest of the time I watched TV or played on the Internet. It was probably the loneliest I've ever been in my life and, as Christmas came that year I was seriously questioning whether or not I wanted to continue at my university. I had moved two states and five hours away, just to sit around and be lonely. I told myself going back from Christmas if Spring semester wasn't any better I was going to transfer back home. Well, spring rolls around and one of the guys I'd sat next to in the intro to engineering class invited me to rush his fraternity. Whut? I had been pretty vehemently anti-Greek; I was a nerdy computer science guy who liked roleplaying games and science fiction movies - not really what I assumed "frat" material was. So my first inclination was to say no thank you. But I then I stopped myself. "What's the worst that could happen?" I asked myself. "The worst that happens is I don't like it, and I've wasted a few hours. No matter what, it beats sitting in my dorm room, in the dark, mindlessly surfing the web." So I did it. And it turned out to be one of the best decisions I made. I met so many amazing, awesome people it blew my mind. The guy that ended up being my big brother (for non-fraternity folks, think of a big brother as a mentor) could have been my twin separated at birth - we shared so many arcane interests (including roleplaying games and science fiction movies - we had a chapter D&D campaign running by the end of the semester). I was eventually initiated, and throughout the remainder of college, the fraternity was a big part of my social life. It was instrumental in breaking me out of my shell and grounded me in the university community. I ended up graduating, having never again considered transferring. And I learned so many valuable social and leadership skills thanks to being involved in the fraternity. Fast forward 15 years, and the people I met in the fraternity are still some of my best and closest friends. I still do a couple of concerts a year with group of brothers, and have ever since we were in college together. My big brother was the best man in my wedding a few years back and I was the best man in his wedding last year. Several other brothers were groomsmen as well. Several brothers drove up for my daughter's baptism a couple years, and we still go to gatherings once a year or so. About eight years ago one of the brothers had his house burn down. We all pulled together and filled up a pickup truck worth of supplies to get them him and family through the tough time until insurance kicked in. A group of four of us have a long running iMessage group that sees thousands of messages a year, especially involving our sports programs. When I'm watching football, I'm usually doing it with one window on the game and another on the chat window as we follow along. It's like being with your friends at the pub. And it goes without saying that brothers end up getting jobs from other brothers. I think I know people in every conceivable industry at this point thanks to having met them at university. Pretty much every major event of my life since I pledged, fraternity brothers have been a part of. All because I took a risk on something I thought I might not like but decided to try anyway. I'm glad I was wrong. So yes, those raucous parties and silly rituals do serve a purpose. We're social creatures by nature and it's a way of building up your social life, and blowing off the stress of school. Universities are institutions of learning, yes, but we're not there just to learn 24/7, just like I'm not at my job now 24/7. These things are fun, and they build up your social network.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  yes, and also I am not sure it's really that hard to be a reasonably decent student and attend parties. I mean you could study 8 am to 8pm on a Saturday, go to a party, be in bed by 1 am and study 9 am to midnight the next day
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  Signalling theory absolutely does not indicate that.
gsnedders 11y ago
> When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I'm not from the US, so I obviously can't tell if the same is true there (and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't, given the sheer cost of tuition): here, there's a strong push for most people to go to university straight out of high school because that's what's done if you're at least averagely smart as you need to to get a well-paid job (or so the story goes, regardless of its truthfulness). At the same time, many people don't really know what they want to do (and degrees here lack the breadth of those in the US), so they end up dicking around a lot, going out partying, because they have no real focus. They don't care about their grades—they don't even care about university—it's purely a means to an end (i.e., getting a decently paid job), and when that end is more than a couple of years away while you simultaneously get your first taste of freedom as an adult, it's hard to care about effects that are years away.
cloverich 11y ago
> I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I think thats overly generalized. When I went to college I was (by design) mixed into a group of students whose parents were migrant workers; they were at college with the first year of tuition covered on a special program for migrant workers. I noticed among them the same thing I noticed among some of the more affluent people at school: some worked hard and did well, others did nothing but party. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more common among people with affluent parents, but I think the stronger reason is college (in the US) is a bunch of 18 year olds on their own for their first time; some are ready for the responsibility, many aren't.
- kuschku 11y ago
  And even those who party all the time might be able to finish with the best possible grades.
stegosaurus 11y ago
"Most of the time, potential founders who share my background tend to work at lucrative jobs in finance or tech until they can take care of everyone in their families before they even dream about taking more risks — if they ever get there." This is so absolutely on point. I've been through life, until now, with exactly that feeling, expecting but not knowing that others feel the same way. I've been in a bit of a rut recently, and this gives me some ammunition to get myself back together... so thank you for quoting, and thank you, author.
gottam 11y ago
Rich people network and want their kids to be successful, what a shocking revelation, so different from us poor people. Chances are if they're slacking off in university then they're going to slack off at work too, which means whatever they're not doing will need someone to be hired to do it anyway.
anovikov 11y ago
Maybe this is because the OP was of an Asian background where taking care for extended family is taken for granted. In reality, most poor families are quite atomized, even when they live under the same roof, so that shouldn't be a big deal.

by yeureka 11y ago

nickff 11y ago

The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. In addition to that, signalling theory would indicate that what classes you take and how well you do are much less important than the university you attend and the faculty you graduate from.

jhanschoo 11y ago
Would you say that going to parties outweigh directly networking? Networking might be a benefit, but I'm sure that people go to parties with a different goal in mind, and that the time cost of partying can be better utilized in other ways.
- aidanlister 11y ago
  In the undergrad university scene that is being discussed I'm having a hard time visualising what "direct networking" would look like. However, I can confidently say there's a big difference in the bond formed between two people chugging beer bongs together vs asking someone in a lecture if they'd like to have lunch. I also think the party scene would be difficult to replicate in terms of the sheer size of your potential network (I make no assertation about the objective quality of that network, but the article suggests it's not what be predisposed to think). Anecdotally, I've got lifelong friends from both camps; but the people I lean on now in my professional development are the people I partied (hard) with at university.
  - colechristensen 11y ago
    I can confirm, I'd place much more value (including monitary- and career- value) on the connections made with people sharing the experience of being an irresponsible young person than I would the connections made during study/projects/"networking" etc. This isn't to say that A) these groups didn't overlap significantly or B) I wish I'd gotten blackout drunk more often; but the social aspect of being forced into close quarters living your life for a few years with peers in your age group is as least of equal value to the "education" part. I've tried to say it in many different ways, but I'll try again: being "graded" constantly and basing huge path-driving decisions on those grades are a huge detriment to people and to society. I and many others would have had a much better, more rewarding, and more valuable experience if the point of Univerity wasn't gathering a dozen metrics a week for several years in a row in order to get a piece of paper.
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      I think the most important part of networking is to do it authentically. If you are naturally a partier, go to parties. If you are naturally studious, study with other people. I made a lot more useful connections with the folks I worked on projects with (or even moreso, folks I met on the Internet) than those I partied with, but that's because I always felt very out-of-place at the blackout-drunk party scene.
      - sarciszewski 11y ago
        I tend to grow my network through researching security vulnerabilities in open source projects, even though that's not my goal. :\ (I'm agreeing with your post.)
  - Outdoorsman 11y ago
    Bases on years of experience I would estimate that the "good" jobs, often regardless of the field, are landed as follows: Networking (60% of my "gigs":) Nepotism (10%, maybe more, much less in my case) Proven Ability to Deliver (20%) Good Luck (10%)
  - 11y ago
semerda 11y ago
Interesting observation. Anything that creates an emotional bond & takes down walls is going to build long lasting relationships among people. So partying is one of them. Especially if you are at a top school where most of your peers will end up at important places. You want those strong relationships since we all know business is people. Building a network that's reliable is far more than someone you met at a meetup and added them to your LinkedIn. It starts either at school or through some social functions where one can connect on a deeper level than just a title. Maybe this is why it's so much harder to form meaningful bonds later in life. Also makes a good case for formal education and a school that has good signaling ;-)
peckrob 11y ago
> The other possibility is that going to the parties is a good use of time, and that is where many students develop their networks. This was kind of my experience. I went to university two states away from where I grew up, knowing a grand total of one person there. I had the academic end more or less handled, but my first semester at university was the loneliest I've ever been in my life. I made good grades, but otherwise I was miserable, depressed and lonely. It's easy to meet people in high school. Most high schools are small compared to major universities, and you have classes with those in your grade. Many of them you've been around for years. But now you're thrown into a new setting, with thousands of people. It's hard to make that transition from high school friendships to college friendships. I spent my freshman fall pretty much just going to class and straight back to my dorm. On the weekends I would go to the football game, but that was it. The rest of the time I watched TV or played on the Internet. It was probably the loneliest I've ever been in my life and, as Christmas came that year I was seriously questioning whether or not I wanted to continue at my university. I had moved two states and five hours away, just to sit around and be lonely. I told myself going back from Christmas if Spring semester wasn't any better I was going to transfer back home. Well, spring rolls around and one of the guys I'd sat next to in the intro to engineering class invited me to rush his fraternity. Whut? I had been pretty vehemently anti-Greek; I was a nerdy computer science guy who liked roleplaying games and science fiction movies - not really what I assumed "frat" material was. So my first inclination was to say no thank you. But I then I stopped myself. "What's the worst that could happen?" I asked myself. "The worst that happens is I don't like it, and I've wasted a few hours. No matter what, it beats sitting in my dorm room, in the dark, mindlessly surfing the web." So I did it. And it turned out to be one of the best decisions I made. I met so many amazing, awesome people it blew my mind. The guy that ended up being my big brother (for non-fraternity folks, think of a big brother as a mentor) could have been my twin separated at birth - we shared so many arcane interests (including roleplaying games and science fiction movies - we had a chapter D&D campaign running by the end of the semester). I was eventually initiated, and throughout the remainder of college, the fraternity was a big part of my social life. It was instrumental in breaking me out of my shell and grounded me in the university community. I ended up graduating, having never again considered transferring. And I learned so many valuable social and leadership skills thanks to being involved in the fraternity. Fast forward 15 years, and the people I met in the fraternity are still some of my best and closest friends. I still do a couple of concerts a year with group of brothers, and have ever since we were in college together. My big brother was the best man in my wedding a few years back and I was the best man in his wedding last year. Several other brothers were groomsmen as well. Several brothers drove up for my daughter's baptism a couple years, and we still go to gatherings once a year or so. About eight years ago one of the brothers had his house burn down. We all pulled together and filled up a pickup truck worth of supplies to get them him and family through the tough time until insurance kicked in. A group of four of us have a long running iMessage group that sees thousands of messages a year, especially involving our sports programs. When I'm watching football, I'm usually doing it with one window on the game and another on the chat window as we follow along. It's like being with your friends at the pub. And it goes without saying that brothers end up getting jobs from other brothers. I think I know people in every conceivable industry at this point thanks to having met them at university. Pretty much every major event of my life since I pledged, fraternity brothers have been a part of. All because I took a risk on something I thought I might not like but decided to try anyway. I'm glad I was wrong. So yes, those raucous parties and silly rituals do serve a purpose. We're social creatures by nature and it's a way of building up your social life, and blowing off the stress of school. Universities are institutions of learning, yes, but we're not there just to learn 24/7, just like I'm not at my job now 24/7. These things are fun, and they build up your social network.
vasilipupkin 11y ago
yes, and also I am not sure it's really that hard to be a reasonably decent student and attend parties. I mean you could study 8 am to 8pm on a Saturday, go to a party, be in bed by 1 am and study 9 am to midnight the next day
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
erikpukinskis 11y ago
Signalling theory absolutely does not indicate that.

gsnedders 11y ago

> When I was in University I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I'm not from the US, so I obviously can't tell if the same is true there (and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't, given the sheer cost of tuition): here, there's a strong push for most people to go to university straight out of high school because that's what's done if you're at least averagely smart as you need to to get a well-paid job (or so the story goes, regardless of its truthfulness). At the same time, many people don't really know what they want to do (and degrees here lack the breadth of those in the US), so they end up dicking around a lot, going out partying, because they have no real focus. They don't care about their grades—they don't even care about university—it's purely a means to an end (i.e., getting a decently paid job), and when that end is more than a couple of years away while you simultaneously get your first taste of freedom as an adult, it's hard to care about effects that are years away.

cloverich 11y ago

> I didn't understand why some people didn't care about grades and partied so much. When we left school and got into the real world I understood why: they had rich parents with contacts that could get them good jobs or seed capital for their own businesses. I think thats overly generalized. When I went to college I was (by design) mixed into a group of students whose parents were migrant workers; they were at college with the first year of tuition covered on a special program for migrant workers. I noticed among them the same thing I noticed among some of the more affluent people at school: some worked hard and did well, others did nothing but party. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more common among people with affluent parents, but I think the stronger reason is college (in the US) is a bunch of 18 year olds on their own for their first time; some are ready for the responsibility, many aren't.

kuschku 11y ago
And even those who party all the time might be able to finish with the best possible grades.

stegosaurus 11y ago

"Most of the time, potential founders who share my background tend to work at lucrative jobs in finance or tech until they can take care of everyone in their families before they even dream about taking more risks — if they ever get there." This is so absolutely on point. I've been through life, until now, with exactly that feeling, expecting but not knowing that others feel the same way. I've been in a bit of a rut recently, and this gives me some ammunition to get myself back together... so thank you for quoting, and thank you, author.

gottam 11y ago

Rich people network and want their kids to be successful, what a shocking revelation, so different from us poor people. Chances are if they're slacking off in university then they're going to slack off at work too, which means whatever they're not doing will need someone to be hired to do it anyway.

anovikov 11y ago

Maybe this is because the OP was of an Asian background where taking care for extended family is taken for granted. In reality, most poor families are quite atomized, even when they live under the same roof, so that shouldn't be a big deal.