7 ms·

I've heard other lawyers give this advice. It may or may not be good advice, depending on circumstances, but I'm a little suspicious of the lawyer's motive. It

I've heard other lawyers give this advice. It may or may not be good advice, depending on circumstances, but I'm a little suspicious of the lawyer's motive. It sounds designed to ensure that every single traffic stop, no matter how benign, results in billable hours.

viraptor 11y ago
It does on both sides though. So with enough volume that's a win. (== current approach is not possible to continue)
abricot 11y ago
It's his own homebrewn field sobriety test. I guess that would work for the cop too :) "Dui person kept mumbling incoherrently about searching his dog and his hotel room, and calling up his lawyer. Talked a hell of a lot, while invoking the right to keep quiet"
- chii 11y ago
  this is why i think having a dashcam recording with live upload is a good idea. Or better yet, a wide angle lense at the top of the vehicle, so the cops can't get out of view.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Yeah, I'm suspicious too. The more I read about life in the US, the more I think the law system there is ripe for disruption. Lawyers are the middlemen, introducing huge inefficiencies and taking enormous rents out. Somebody needs to cut them out.
- kabdib 11y ago
  People have been saying that for centuries, and long before the US was a thing.
- gamblor956 11y ago
  Lawyers are not middlemen between people and the law. Lawyers are the experts who know the law and make interactions with the law more efficient. Context-relevant example: a person dealing with a DUI stop might spend months of their own time fighting the DUI in court without a lawyer--days wasted just trying to figure out what to do. But with a lawyer, most DUI cases are wrapped up in about a day or two! If your time is truly worthless, go ahead and try to play at the law yourself. But if your time, and your freedom, has any value, pay the expert to do it for you.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    You're proving my point for me. They're the middlemen who over the last few decades managed to make themselves indispensable. The law is that complicated for a reason, and it's not just because humans are messy. Speaking about your example - somehow, many otherwise civilized countries manage to handle DUI cases without lawyers getting involved.
    - brbsix 11y ago
      Common law is not so messy. Unfortunately we live in a world of victimless crimes, with a system of law that is like it's own universe, always expanding, and of unknowable vastness. So arcane that it requires temples upon temples of seers to interpret it. It's ripe for disruption alright, but probably not by market forces in a peaceful fashion.
anonbanker 11y ago
The lone person in the thread that mistrusts lawyers. You're correct, btw. It does definitely result in billable hours if they do anything more than ticket you. However, more importantly, you are stating to the police officer that even though you aren't able to defend yourself, you have someone on-retainer that will happily make him personally liable for his actions. No bully will want that, and the good ones will just make sure they do their jobs. (I personally fight back, but I do not recommend doing the same unless you fully appreciate the risk of having your windows smashed in and being yanked out of your car if you mess up during negotiations)
- gruez 11y ago
  >No bully will want that, and the good ones will just make sure they do their jobs. but that bully is paid for his time regardless of what he does, and you just challenged his authority.
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    Also true. Police usually earn over $100k/year, at least in Canada. On the other side, it'd be a shame to lose that pension and salary because you chose to be the cause of a counter-suit. Lawyers usually wear kid gloves with police. they don't want the retaliation. The fact that this lawyer is educating people to properly direct (and restrict the jurisdiction of) the stop should be sufficient notice that a) the driver is loaded, and b) the driver is willing to pay a lot for a lawyer that likes to sue cops.

viraptor 11y ago

It does on both sides though. So with enough volume that's a win. (== current approach is not possible to continue)

abricot 11y ago

It's his own homebrewn field sobriety test. I guess that would work for the cop too :) "Dui person kept mumbling incoherrently about searching his dog and his hotel room, and calling up his lawyer. Talked a hell of a lot, while invoking the right to keep quiet"

chii 11y ago
this is why i think having a dashcam recording with live upload is a good idea. Or better yet, a wide angle lense at the top of the vehicle, so the cops can't get out of view.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

Yeah, I'm suspicious too. The more I read about life in the US, the more I think the law system there is ripe for disruption. Lawyers are the middlemen, introducing huge inefficiencies and taking enormous rents out. Somebody needs to cut them out.

kabdib 11y ago
People have been saying that for centuries, and long before the US was a thing.
gamblor956 11y ago
Lawyers are not middlemen between people and the law. Lawyers are the experts who know the law and make interactions with the law more efficient. Context-relevant example: a person dealing with a DUI stop might spend months of their own time fighting the DUI in court without a lawyer--days wasted just trying to figure out what to do. But with a lawyer, most DUI cases are wrapped up in about a day or two! If your time is truly worthless, go ahead and try to play at the law yourself. But if your time, and your freedom, has any value, pay the expert to do it for you.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  You're proving my point for me. They're the middlemen who over the last few decades managed to make themselves indispensable. The law is that complicated for a reason, and it's not just because humans are messy. Speaking about your example - somehow, many otherwise civilized countries manage to handle DUI cases without lawyers getting involved.
  - brbsix 11y ago
    Common law is not so messy. Unfortunately we live in a world of victimless crimes, with a system of law that is like it's own universe, always expanding, and of unknowable vastness. So arcane that it requires temples upon temples of seers to interpret it. It's ripe for disruption alright, but probably not by market forces in a peaceful fashion.

anonbanker 11y ago

The lone person in the thread that mistrusts lawyers. You're correct, btw. It does definitely result in billable hours if they do anything more than ticket you. However, more importantly, you are stating to the police officer that even though you aren't able to defend yourself, you have someone on-retainer that will happily make him personally liable for his actions. No bully will want that, and the good ones will just make sure they do their jobs. (I personally fight back, but I do not recommend doing the same unless you fully appreciate the risk of having your windows smashed in and being yanked out of your car if you mess up during negotiations)

gruez 11y ago
>No bully will want that, and the good ones will just make sure they do their jobs. but that bully is paid for his time regardless of what he does, and you just challenged his authority.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  Also true. Police usually earn over $100k/year, at least in Canada. On the other side, it'd be a shame to lose that pension and salary because you chose to be the cause of a counter-suit. Lawyers usually wear kid gloves with police. they don't want the retaliation. The fact that this lawyer is educating people to properly direct (and restrict the jurisdiction of) the stop should be sufficient notice that a) the driver is loaded, and b) the driver is willing to pay a lot for a lawyer that likes to sue cops.