3 ms·

Yes I share your confusion and I wish there was a guide to all of this, but don't forget DNX/DNU/CoreCLR/CoreFX/new platform targets for NuGet and all that hasn

Yes I share your confusion and I wish there was a guide to all of this, but don't forget DNX/DNU/CoreCLR/CoreFX/new platform targets for NuGet and all that hasn't hit RTM yet. So I am keeping an eye on it, but I will await the release date(s) before committing to learning too much about one thing or the other.

cm2187 11y ago
The other thing is the move toward command lines, away from GUI. I think it's great to make everything scriptable. But a command line is also many order of magnitudes less discoverable than a GUI. I am not sure how much Microsoft realises that a great part of the success of C# is about making it easy and intuitive, and that involves visual feedbacks. Unless the idea is to make it more of an "elite language".
- insulanian 11y ago
  > Unless the idea is to make it more of an "elite language". When I think of VB, and how being easy and discoverable produced enormous amount of crap in software world, I almost support this idea.
  - cm2187 11y ago
    I can think of two type of crap you are referring to: 1. VB written in the 90s (VB6 and before), which has mostly do to with VB having been around for so long. To be fair, if you look at code written in the 90s in any mainstream language through today's best practice lens, everything will look shit. Today's VB is a superb language that can be very elegant, and actually quite modern too, relying less on special characters and more on an expressive, english syntax. 2. VB written by non programmers (essentially VBA). You can argue that non programmers shouldn't be allowed to code, but from a business user point of view, there is much to say about the lack of productivity of IT departments in large organisations. Enabling users to automate many of their tasks has a massive productivity impact. A user can automate the production of a report in a couple of hours, instead of having to discuss specs, prioritisations, budgets, tests, etc for months with the IT dept. I think it's absurd to hold the quality of the code produced against the language.
arethuza 11y ago
Also worth noting that the new web project types in VS 2015 include bower, npm and gulp by default.
- taspeotis 11y ago
  I tried the new templates and gulp was a welcome addition. I'm sick of finding nice JavaScript libraries that aren't on NuGet or are outdated. Now I can get the libraries and the updates the same as everyone else.

cm2187 11y ago

The other thing is the move toward command lines, away from GUI. I think it's great to make everything scriptable. But a command line is also many order of magnitudes less discoverable than a GUI. I am not sure how much Microsoft realises that a great part of the success of C# is about making it easy and intuitive, and that involves visual feedbacks. Unless the idea is to make it more of an "elite language".

insulanian 11y ago
> Unless the idea is to make it more of an "elite language". When I think of VB, and how being easy and discoverable produced enormous amount of crap in software world, I almost support this idea.
- cm2187 11y ago
  I can think of two type of crap you are referring to: 1. VB written in the 90s (VB6 and before), which has mostly do to with VB having been around for so long. To be fair, if you look at code written in the 90s in any mainstream language through today's best practice lens, everything will look shit. Today's VB is a superb language that can be very elegant, and actually quite modern too, relying less on special characters and more on an expressive, english syntax. 2. VB written by non programmers (essentially VBA). You can argue that non programmers shouldn't be allowed to code, but from a business user point of view, there is much to say about the lack of productivity of IT departments in large organisations. Enabling users to automate many of their tasks has a massive productivity impact. A user can automate the production of a report in a couple of hours, instead of having to discuss specs, prioritisations, budgets, tests, etc for months with the IT dept. I think it's absurd to hold the quality of the code produced against the language.

arethuza 11y ago

Also worth noting that the new web project types in VS 2015 include bower, npm and gulp by default.

taspeotis 11y ago
I tried the new templates and gulp was a welcome addition. I'm sick of finding nice JavaScript libraries that aren't on NuGet or are outdated. Now I can get the libraries and the updates the same as everyone else.