3 ms·

> I personally disagree that college is the solution. Some people lack the financial stability required to excel in what is essentially a long, expensive vacati

> I personally disagree that college is the solution. Some people lack the financial stability required to excel in what is essentially a long, expensive vacation learning things that won't directly impact their earnings. Which is why like I said, it needs to be greatly reduced or preferably free.

smt88 11y ago
Let me clarify that excellence in college is expensive, even if tuition is waived, at least the way it's currently structured. It's very, very hard to get good grades while working enough hours to support yourself, especially if you have no skills (and even affluent college students rarely have marketable skills).
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  That's because the way it's structured sucks. It's more or less a requirement now (or will be very soon) to earn a decent living, it shouldn't cost you half of your lifetime income to attend. You can't make something that important to a life and then charge such asinine amounts for it, especially when there's ample precedent showing that college grads on the whole improve our society by stimulating more economic activity and adding to the white collar workforce. As romantic as it is to tell tales of how we bootstrapped ourselves through college, working off hours and earning our way, it's stupid to demand the next generation do it out of some misguided sense of tradition. We have the capability to make it better for our kids, why the hell aren't we?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Hm. Depends upon your area of study I guess. My middle son is now earning more per year than his entire education cost. However, he's a (CMU) CS/EE grad working at a startup in Silicon Valley.
- jimbokun 11y ago
  "Let me clarify that excellence in college is expensive, even if tuition is waived, at least the way it's currently structured." Not really. "Tuition will be $51,196 for entering undergraduates and for others who arrived in fall 2015, 2014 and 2013, and $50,690 for those who entered in fall 2012, the email stated. Room and board is set at $7,780 for a standard double room and $5,490 for a standard first-year meal plan, Mr. Murphy’s note stated." http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2016/01/14/CMU-will-raise-tuition-in-the-2016-17-academic-year/stories/201601140177 http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2016/01/14/CMU-wi... So $13,270 for living expenses, at the presumably inflated prices CMU is charging. Over 4 years, comes to $202,760 for tuition, vs. $53,080 for living expenses. Point being, with tuition hyper-inflation, costs to support yourself while studying are relatively much, much less expensive. The student-loan debt crisis would rapidly become a non-issue if tuition was free.
ams6110 11y ago
The problem is that if it's free, the standards for admission will need to be much higher. Free and open to anyone won't work.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  I submit that even a hipster learning about the French Revolution or Feminists Studies is going to have more to add to the world than a burger flipper, even if it isn't directly economically beneficial in the short term.

smt88 11y ago

Let me clarify that excellence in college is expensive, even if tuition is waived, at least the way it's currently structured. It's very, very hard to get good grades while working enough hours to support yourself, especially if you have no skills (and even affluent college students rarely have marketable skills).

FussyZeus 11y ago
That's because the way it's structured sucks. It's more or less a requirement now (or will be very soon) to earn a decent living, it shouldn't cost you half of your lifetime income to attend. You can't make something that important to a life and then charge such asinine amounts for it, especially when there's ample precedent showing that college grads on the whole improve our society by stimulating more economic activity and adding to the white collar workforce. As romantic as it is to tell tales of how we bootstrapped ourselves through college, working off hours and earning our way, it's stupid to demand the next generation do it out of some misguided sense of tradition. We have the capability to make it better for our kids, why the hell aren't we?
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Hm. Depends upon your area of study I guess. My middle son is now earning more per year than his entire education cost. However, he's a (CMU) CS/EE grad working at a startup in Silicon Valley.
jimbokun 11y ago
"Let me clarify that excellence in college is expensive, even if tuition is waived, at least the way it's currently structured." Not really. "Tuition will be $51,196 for entering undergraduates and for others who arrived in fall 2015, 2014 and 2013, and $50,690 for those who entered in fall 2012, the email stated. Room and board is set at $7,780 for a standard double room and $5,490 for a standard first-year meal plan, Mr. Murphy’s note stated." http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2016/01/14/CMU-will-raise-tuition-in-the-2016-17-academic-year/stories/201601140177 http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2016/01/14/CMU-wi... So $13,270 for living expenses, at the presumably inflated prices CMU is charging. Over 4 years, comes to $202,760 for tuition, vs. $53,080 for living expenses. Point being, with tuition hyper-inflation, costs to support yourself while studying are relatively much, much less expensive. The student-loan debt crisis would rapidly become a non-issue if tuition was free.

ams6110 11y ago

The problem is that if it's free, the standards for admission will need to be much higher. Free and open to anyone won't work.

FussyZeus 11y ago
I submit that even a hipster learning about the French Revolution or Feminists Studies is going to have more to add to the world than a burger flipper, even if it isn't directly economically beneficial in the short term.