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Netflix cracks down on proxy streaming
- 746F7475 11y agoI recently resubscribed, but I had forgotten the lack of content without proxies and since I'm mostly just streaming to Chromecast from my phone I'm not sure I can even use a proxy anymore. I probably should unsubscribe either way. I haven't really watched anything new since I resubscribed
- dr_faustus 11y agoUnfortunately, this means that I will have to reconsider my membership. Their service in Germany is just not comprehensive enough. I hope that this is just a short term problem until they a) renegotiated their licensing contracts and then stop the blocking again (more likely) or b) they actually get global licenses (less likely). Their original content is getting more and more interesting but its just not enough to justify the price, IMHO. Maybe they should consider a package with only Netflix Originals for 50% off or something.
- sveme 11y agoI'm using the German Netflix without a VPN or proxy, so I'm unfamiliar with the differences between the German and US offerings? Would you care to tell me more? What are you watching on US Netflix that is not available on German Netflix?
- hellofunk 11y agoI use it from the Netherlands but have had American subscriptions in the past. I can say that, approximately, the American Netflix library is at least 10 times as large, in my memory and guessing. Sure I get some Dutch shows in the Dutch subscription that probably aren't in the American version (though I wouldn't be surprised if they were!), but in general, it's missing a huge range of content that only Americans get access to (and maybe some other countries too, but not us).
- sanoli 11y agoDoes the content you get from the American version while in the Netherlands come with Dutch subtitles just as if it were the Dutch version (I mean in the cases where some content is available in both versions)? I'm asking because some memebers of my family need the subtitles, so I keep using the local version instead of the American one.
- hellofunk 11y agoThe Dutch don't rely on subtitles or dubs the way the Germans do (in fact, Germany has the largest overdub market in the world!) since the Netherlands is essentially a bilingual nation, so I've found that nearly all shows that are in English in the Dutch subscription (and most of the content is) have a Dutch subtitle option that does nothing... no subtitles. I have not tried to connect to Netflix from NL using an American proxy, so can't comment on that.
- mollmerx 11y agoMy girlfriend started watching Reign on Netflix when we were visiting the US. She is able to watch it when she visits me in the UK. At her home in Germany it is unavailable.
- sveme 11y agoAs my girlfriend watches it as well, I can tell you that at least Reign is now available on Netflix Germany. With respect to the other shows: interesting - let's me question my non-use of a VPN as well.
- tren 11y agoIf you checkout https://flixsearch.io/ https://flixsearch.io/ you can see the number of shows by country. Germany has 1808 and USA has 5750 shows available. I'm in Australia and there's the extremely ridiculous situation where a Netflix created show "Better Call Saul" isn't available to Australian Netflix users because Netflix sold the show's rights to a local competitor before they had a presence in Australia.
- mhaymo 11y agoAcoording to Wikipedia, Better Call Saul is produced by Sony for AMC, not Netflix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Call_Saul#Development_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Call_Saul#Development_h... > Netflix was one of many interested distributors, but ultimately a deal was made between AMC and Breaking Bad production company Sony Pictures Television.
- germanier 11y agoA better example would be maybe House of Cards. In many countries new episodes are only available with a delay. For example, in Germany they are put online six months after the US start, because they sold the rights to Sky.
- embik 11y agoInteresting, I'm pretty sure it has the little "Netflix" logo for being a Netflix Original series on Netflix Germany. Follow up: Yes it has.
- Vespasian 11y agoProbably because they are the original publisher in germany. I've seen that for a few series.
- madeofpalk 11y ago> where a Netflix created show "Better Call Saul" isn't available to Australian Netflix users because Netflix sold the show's rights to a local competitor before they had a presence in Australia. Netflix had nothing to do with creating Better Call Saul, and Netflix definitely was aware of it's plans to expand to Australia during the same timeframe as Better Call Saul being developed and sold to Stan.
- dr_faustus 11y agohttp://unogs.com/ http://unogs.com/ Gives you a search which also tells you where the content is available. You will see, that Germany is hardly ever included. In my (subjective) view, Germany has one of the thinnest catalogs.
- jrnkntl 11y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10902323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10902323
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- x0 11y agoWell there goes my subscription.
- vbezhenar 11y agoNetflix came to Kazakhstan few days ago. So far I used torrents, because there were no legal services with good enough offerings for me. I'm using Netherlands VPN almost always, because Kazakhstan bans many sites. So I subscribed to Netflix and I liked that service, I would definitely continue that subscription. But I switched off my VPN once and suddenly everything I watched just disappeared. It's blocked for me. So probably back to torrents for now. I really liked Netflix interface, it's the best experience I've ever seen. But interface doesn't worth a penny without content.
- CleanCoder 11y agoHave you seen Popcorn Time before? A friend of mine has been using it when travelling to places with restrictions on Netflix access.
- piva00 11y agoAFAIK Popcorn Time uses torrents, it'll not be a problem for OP but in other countries (such as Germany, I think) it can and will cause you legal problems and fines for pirating content. At least with proxies/VPNs + Netflix you'd not trigger those kind of penalties.
- zcam 11y agoYou can just use a VPN with popcorn as well (or "normal" torrents for that matter).
- ahstilde 11y agoDidn't Popcorn Time go down?
- GordonS 11y agoUK subscriber here. When using a proxy to access US content I get about double the content. If I can't do this anymore, it's not worth the price and I will be gone.
- realusername 11y agoAnd the UK netflix is one of the best one apart from the US one, just imagine the catalogue you have in other countries... - The French and German Netflix have 3 times less content than the US - The Italian one, almost 5 times less content. - The Russian one, almost 8 times less. (numbers taken from flixsearch.io, not sure how it's accurate) There are vast difference in catalogue between the different countries.
- cm2187 11y agoAnd the UK film catalogue is already pretty poor. Try searching for Jack Nicholson (compared to its IMDB filmography). Double that would only be "less poor".
- temp 11y agoIf going by the numbers of titles over at flixsearch.io, UK has 2983 titles whereas US has 5750 titles in its Netflix library. Which is roughly double. But I'm not sure how correct those numbers are. South Korea apparently only has 672 titles.
- rplnt 11y agoYep, it's useless. Even original Netflix content is region restricted. For the full price too.
- noxToken 11y agoOriginal Netflix content isn't inherently Netflix's content. Netflix has exclusive rights to air the content, so it's branded as original. It's akin to a college football bowl game sponsorship here in the US. There's the Royal Purple Las Vegas Bowl, Go Daddy Bowl, Buffalo Wild Wing's Citrus Bowl, etc. The companies aren't actually in control of the bowl games, but they get the branding that's associated with it for that year. Calling it a Netflix Original tends to be a misnomer, although I don't think this is the case with all of their shows.
- GordonS 11y agoFrom a technical standpoint, how can they actually enforce this? I can see how they can do this for publically advertised proxies used by many people, but what about individuals with their own cloud servers hosting their own proxy or VPN? (i.e. me!)
- TeMPOraL 11y agoCan't they just discriminate based on your billing address?
- sim0n 11y agoThats the obvious solution, though how would that affect people using Netlfix while traveling? For example, if you're locked to the US region and watch something that is only available in the US while visiting, say, the UK — would that break any of Netflix's license agreements?
- mxfh 11y agoThis whole topic is probably not inititated by Netflix, but by the contracts they sign with the distributors. Distributors don't care about this, they care about geographically determined licenses. And apparently they want to see that this is technically enforced to some degree.
- pjmlp 11y agoSame thing with app stores. Try to buy some apps in one country and download them again while in another. Last time I read about this it wasn't possible to do so.
- Sephiroth87 11y agoNot true (at least with Apple), my main Apple ID is Italian, but I live in the UK, and I use with no problem...
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- BrockSamson 11y agoI can see a lot of people I know cancelling their subs. Also I wonder if this will result in a resurgence of torrents as people find other ways to watch their shows.
- wintermute306 11y agoThe reality of it is, that they don't want to do this but they are being forced to. I suspect they'll put some measures in place but nothing ironclad.
- XorNot 11y agoIt does occur to me that this was probably a lot like Comedy Central's ridiculously easily circumvented geo-blocking. I suspect the sysadmins said "what's the laziest thing we can do?"
- aluhut 11y agoThis nationalization of the internet is ridiculous. Especially in the media business where you don't even have to torrent anymore. One-Click-Hosters or streams are all over the place. Popular shows can be found by googling. I just can't understand how we can still move backwards facing all this. I have the feeling that the content providers just hope for the inability of their customers to google. But hey, I taught a guy who last year didn't even use YouTube to find his favorite US shows from Germany and how to download them in 1080p without any risk. So please...wake up.
- halviti 11y agoThis has to do with licensing and rights more than anything else.. not just "the internet" Just because you have rights to something in one country, does not mean you have rights to that same thing in another country and so on. Content providers are up against an amazing amount of bureaucracy, and only have limited resources to deal with these things.. especially considering we're talking about different laws and systems for virtually every country on the planet. I'm certain Netflix would like to offer you as much content as they can, but they also have to respect existing law.
- sklivvz1971 11y agoHowever what is determined to be "in one country" is a matter of negotiation. Amazon considers the "account country" the country. Netflix the "IP country" the country.
- herewulf 11y agoMaybe that is the case for Amazon's video offerings but despite registering an account on amazon.de, I am not able to buy German Kindle e-books in the USA. You would think it wouldn't matter.. I can get most of the same books in English here.
- sklivvz1971 11y agoGoing to amazon.com or amazon.de?
- cocoggu 11y agoFor people concerned, I asked the Smartflix team if it will impact their service. Here is their answer: "Hello! Yes, we are aware about the recent statement that Netflix has published, and needless to say we are upset about it! However this does not mean the end of Smartflix. We are constantly able to outsmart these systems, and we will continue to do so for as long as humanly possible - so fear not!"
- thirdsun 11y agoAs I understand it they intend to charge their users at some point? Doesn't look like a sound plan to me as Smartflix will probably have to constantly fight against whatever measures Netflix (or its licensing partners) comes up with. I, as a potential user, certainly wouldn't rely on that service.
- ck2 11y agoyou mean Netflix will TRY to crack down on proxy streaming
- cobaltblue 11y agoThey'll probably succeed for the most part, too. Who's going to spend their time playing cat and mouse when they can just unsubscribe and torrent? If you're not seeding, you're breaking the same law of unlicensed access to content either way.
- dovdov 11y agoI guess they "crack down" on their prices also then, I mean I'd love to pay the same price from my eastern-european salary for the fraction of the US content, if I would be bats#!t crazy.
- sklivvz1971 11y agoThe only "fair" thing they could do is have specific-country accounts. If you have a UK account then you get UK price and UK content everywhere in the world. It would suck, because of course the US version is much better, but at least it would be fair. I find it shocking that I can't access the content I'm paying them for if I'm traveling to a different country. I don't even know if it's legally sound... That said, per-country licensing is simply stupid. However that's how the content industry works for historical reasons, and they are known to be 30 years behind in technological understanding... Edited to add: Ultimately, it's a war that the content providers can't win. In order to watch Star Trek via streaming from the UK, on line I have 3 options at the moment: 1) Use a VPN and Netflix USA 2) Use a VPN and torrents If they kill the first, what options to they leave?
- k-mcgrady 11y agoWhy don't you rent/buy the movie on iTunes or Amazon? It's available. And if you were to rent it on iTunes you could start streaming it immediately.
- lagadu 11y agoBecause those options (Amazon in particular) only exist in a few regions. Most importantly, they're not as widely available as Netflix, I've a netflix app on my phone and on my TV, this isn't true for amazon and apple.
- sklivvz1971 11y agoBecause their price is appaling. Star Trek on Neflix US: part of a 6£/m subscription; Watching a complete series (TNG) on iTunes (renting): not available; Watching a complete series (TNG) on iTunes (buying): 280£;
- k-mcgrady 11y agoI thought we were talking about a Star Trek movie, not series, my mistake. I don't think a price comparison in that way is completely fair. You make the purchase from iTunes and it's yours for life. You have to continue paying Netflix when you want to watch it. There are also other limitations (can't watch the Netflix version when flying for example). My point though is that, even though it's expensive, buying it is a viable option. You may not be able to afford to binge it in a weekend this way but it's a perfectly viable option as purchasing content for a similar price has been for people for decades.
- andy_ppp 11y agoThis seems weird, it'll just increase piracy and lose them money? The people who are using proxies etc. really aren't doing anything wrong are they and they are paying for the service presumably in the locale they are proxying to?
- magicmu 11y agoMy parents recently moved to Turkey, and I set them up with NordVPN (good service and easy to use for non-technical people). All they really wanted to watch was Star Trek: TNG anyway, which, even after the big availability push, is not available via Turkish Netflix. Without being able to do that, they will certainly cancel that subscription.
- soneca 11y agoIf this is indeed forced by content creators, I think it is counter productive. They will just give more incentive to Netflix (and Amazon and others) to create they own content, as third part content lose them money. Perssonal view: the "Original Netflix Content" sign already give me a more value perception. Between a recycled TV show and a new one by Netflix, I always chose the new on by Netflix. So far I watched all of: Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Making a Murderer, House of Cards, Narcos, Sense8, Bloodline, Orange is the new black, Master of None, Better Call Saul. And I'll probably keep watching the next seasons of all of them. Outside of Netflix, I only follow the very best ones (IMO): Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad (that's over) and Walking Dead. What this means? I consume only the very best hits that these other content creators produce. For casual, day-to-day entertainment, that covers 90% of the time, I stay with Netflix.
- stdclass 11y agoLike @mhaymo has pointed out in another comment, Better Call Saul is actually produced by Sony for AMC, not Netflix.
- soneca 11y agointeresting, because Netflix puts their logo on the cover. edit: as I understood it, Netflix is the exclusive distributor for Brazil, that's the reason of the logo.
- cm2187 11y agoHow do they spot proxies? Do they have lists of known proxy IPs? Or do they have a way to tell from the incoming connection? I wouldn't be very hard to fire up a VM in a cloud service to watch a movie, switch it off when done. The cost should be fairly marginal, and you would come from a new unique IP every time.
- imglorp 11y agoGood point. There might even be a business for that, transient proxy vm's. From NF's viewpoint however, nobody has their living room in Amazon or Azure, so any connections from cloud providers can be safely dropped also.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- snarfy 11y agoThere is nothing wrong with a little civil disobedience in the face of questionably unjust laws. Because it's illegal doesn't make it morally wrong. If everyone followed the law to the letter cannabis would have never been legalized.
- djhn 11y agoThe United States was born out of outrageous treason - violent revolution against the crown and established law.
- sheepmullet 11y agoIt is immoral to restrict access to content based on country of origin. Because of this in my country it is perfectly legal to get around geo-blocking. I don't think the law goes far enough however. I think if content is artificially limited from my country then pirating it should be legal.
- djhn 11y agoWhich country is this? That would be quite a remarkable and a radical law!
- krisdol 11y agoPeople around the world break the law all the time by using Uber and Airbnb. There are many alternatives to Netflix, and yes, torrenting is one of them.
- kelvin0 11y agoMy question is: how can they tell (and block) if a user is streaming through VPN? Do they systematically block all major VPN provider domains? Anyone know how this is done?
- CleanCoder 11y agoI believe the first step would be associating your method of payment with the country whose content you are eligible to see.
- kelvin0 11y agoSo, a Brazilian citizen living in the US would pay the Netflix account using his Brazilian Credit card. And that would block him into Netflix Brazil content? The origin of the CC is the issue? What about 'generic' CC you can buy at stores?
- greggarious 11y agoSo if I'm traveling WITHIN the united states, I can't use my VPN on the shady hotel wifi? Lame.
- drather19 11y agoSounds like more Netflix through hotel set top boxes is in the works (e.g., http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2487505,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2487505,00.asp).
- Jedd 11y agoSo here's the thing -- vendors of DVDs used to constrain who could view (and when) the various cuts of their product based on where the viewers (or rather, purchasers) were located. Someone [1] worked around this and subsequently the idea of region-locked DVD discs & players became a historical footnote. Why is the same industry evidently repeating the same mistake? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen
- csydas 11y agoIt's a slightly different technology being dealt with here and to some degree I have sympathy for Netflix and other stream providers (mostly Amazon). The difference between the DVD region locking and the stream region locking is that the powers that be never stood a chance at locking down the DVDs. It's like the old saying about physical access to a machine - all bets are pretty much off at that point. The DVD region locking cases were more just a desperate attempt to get some legal teeth to hit people with rather than actually stop the issue. After all, once the DVDs are in the wild and the crack is live, you can't really stop people from removing the region lock, you can just sue them after the fact. With streamed content, it's a different ball-game since the providers technically can control the delivery and experience all the way through the content. If Netflix et. al. can create a successful means of blocking VPN and proxy access, then you sure bet that the rights-holders are going to double-down on the region blocking. The rights-holders already are getting their cut from Netflix et. al., so it's not like they're losing a huge chunk of change, and if people up and up ditch the streaming sites, that falls more in line with what the rights-holders likely want anyways. I really enjoy Prime's video selection, and from what I've seen with Netflix, it's nice. I'm in Russia right now and I really wish that I could watch the shows I've paid for access to on Prime. But I don't really hold any disillusionment as to where the fault lies here. The rights-holders made dozens upon dozens of distribution agreements about what can be shown where and by who, and Netflix and its kin are pretty much just stuck. Hopefully they can show that their model is more profitable as a global library rather than regional libraries, and the content holders will loosen their grip. Maybe I'll win the lottery.
- K0nserv 11y agoI am wondering how blocking VPN services/proxies will work in IPv6. Seems to me like the sheer amount of IPv6 addresses would make blocking by address completely impossible
- d_theorist 11y agoAssuming that this is going to work by just blocking known proxy IPs, I suppose it can be worked-around simply by setting up your own VPN server, which really isn't that difficult.