4 ms·

Personally I feel jobs like engineering should not be subordinate to management so I'll take flat.

Pxtl 11y ago
Make the tech people the managers. Hire BAs for the soft skills and project management, attach a BA to each tech lead, and they work together to provide direction for their group. BA owns all communication and requirements, Tech lead owns the technical decisions, code reviews, work assignments, and they collaborate on managing the team.
- humanrebar 11y ago
  That sounds mostly great. Separate technical leadership from organizational management. Not sure "requirements" necessarily belong to the BA. They probably belong to whomever can identify best with the customer. That's certainly a BA in many circumstances, but hardly all of them.
- thawkins 11y ago
  We are moving tne ba/requirements role over to the product managers, the devleads operate virtual teams and pull tesource in on an as needed basis.
  - jon-wood 11y ago
    > pull resource in Did you mean people? I really hate this kind of dehumanising management speak.
  - Pxtl 11y ago
    We're a small group so we don't have separate roles of PM vs BA.
balls187 11y ago
Who is responsible for making hiring decisions? Who is responsible for removing engineers that aren't pulling their weight?
SAS721 11y ago
Personally I have found that a great manager is worth their weight in gold. Breaking down barriers, navigating red tape and bureaucracy so the team doesn't have to, helping keep the team happy. And most importantly being and advocate for the team to the larger organization. I feel that advocacy role is often overlooked. A great manager will make sure the powers that be know who is doing great work, what the team is up to and ensure they get the credit they deserve.
- pm 11y ago
  All those functions can be performed without the manager needing to be higher up in the organisational hierarchy.
  - eitally 11y ago
    And at places like Google, this is how it does work (on paper. In practice there are always exceptions, either due to actual hierarchy or individual charisma). If you look at Google's org, you essentially have 4 ladders: 1) Engineering, 2) product management, 3) business, 4) G&A superstructure. You can bet that if you're a PM trying to decide roadmap priorities, you're going to be driven by input from engineers primarily, not customers, sales reps or professional managers.
  - SAS721 11y ago
    Certainly, and in some of the places I have worked with a good manager, they were not necessarily considered "higher up". These companies had separate technical vs manager tracks in some form or another. So the notion of "higher up" depended on the track you are on.

Pxtl 11y ago

Make the tech people the managers. Hire BAs for the soft skills and project management, attach a BA to each tech lead, and they work together to provide direction for their group. BA owns all communication and requirements, Tech lead owns the technical decisions, code reviews, work assignments, and they collaborate on managing the team.

humanrebar 11y ago
That sounds mostly great. Separate technical leadership from organizational management. Not sure "requirements" necessarily belong to the BA. They probably belong to whomever can identify best with the customer. That's certainly a BA in many circumstances, but hardly all of them.
thawkins 11y ago
We are moving tne ba/requirements role over to the product managers, the devleads operate virtual teams and pull tesource in on an as needed basis.
- jon-wood 11y ago
  > pull resource in Did you mean people? I really hate this kind of dehumanising management speak.
- Pxtl 11y ago
  We're a small group so we don't have separate roles of PM vs BA.

balls187 11y ago

Who is responsible for making hiring decisions? Who is responsible for removing engineers that aren't pulling their weight?

SAS721 11y ago

Personally I have found that a great manager is worth their weight in gold. Breaking down barriers, navigating red tape and bureaucracy so the team doesn't have to, helping keep the team happy. And most importantly being and advocate for the team to the larger organization. I feel that advocacy role is often overlooked. A great manager will make sure the powers that be know who is doing great work, what the team is up to and ensure they get the credit they deserve.

pm 11y ago
All those functions can be performed without the manager needing to be higher up in the organisational hierarchy.
- eitally 11y ago
  And at places like Google, this is how it does work (on paper. In practice there are always exceptions, either due to actual hierarchy or individual charisma). If you look at Google's org, you essentially have 4 ladders: 1) Engineering, 2) product management, 3) business, 4) G&A superstructure. You can bet that if you're a PM trying to decide roadmap priorities, you're going to be driven by input from engineers primarily, not customers, sales reps or professional managers.
- SAS721 11y ago
  Certainly, and in some of the places I have worked with a good manager, they were not necessarily considered "higher up". These companies had separate technical vs manager tracks in some form or another. So the notion of "higher up" depended on the track you are on.