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A statement from f.lux about Apple's recent announcement

366 points by mrzool 11y ago

AdamGibbins 11y ago
What announcement? I missed it.
- cryptoz 11y ago
  iOS 9.3 includes a f.lux copy. http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/ http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/
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- crb 11y ago
  iOS 9.3 has a feature called "Night Shift": "Night Shift uses your iOS device’s clock and geolocation to determine when it’s sunset in your location. Then it automatically shifts the colors in your display to the warmer end of the spectrum, making it easier on your eyes. In the morning, it returns the display to its regular settings." http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/ http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/
  - ProAm 11y ago
    So they copied what f.lux did and released it as a homegrown feature?
    - nemild 11y ago
      Very close to it, yes (but also, this is something platforms often do).
    - llamataboot 11y ago
      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked
- daxelrod 11y ago
  http://www.apple.com/ios/preview http://www.apple.com/ios/preview , search the page for Night Shift. Discussed on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10882261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10882261
- rconti 11y ago
  Voted up because I had to get halfway through the comments (and even searched "apple f.lux" on Google but only turned up results from November) before finding the name "night shift" that I could then google and get the background. Is there a better way for submitters to include a second, explanatory link for context when the linked article does not provide any?
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kaiserama 11y ago
I would love to have f.lux on my un-jailbroken iPhone. Currently I use Twilight App on a Nexus by my nightstand during the night because of how harsh the iPhone screen is in the dark (even with brightness turned down all the way).
- orik 11y ago
  you can side load it if you still have the code/binary. that's what I've done. how it updates the screen with notifications is a little hacky though so I'm glad they are bringing a native implementation. hopefully this comes to OS X as well.
  - notduncansmith 11y ago
    On OS X you can just use f.lux.
- lukestevens 11y ago
  There's a similar, more flexible, open source app you can sideload via Xcode here: https://github.com/anthonya1999/GoodNight https://github.com/anthonya1999/GoodNight . I use it on my non-jailbroken iPhone and iPad. Does the trick for me (all orange, all the time).
PostThisTooFast 11y ago
Failure. Doesn't say WTF f.lux is. Not even on their homepage.
tehwebguy 11y ago
I would be so much angrier than this post is. Dude thinks they might want to team up after Apple fucked them in 2x in a row.
- themagician 11y ago
  The reality is that Apple doesn't need them and their company was built on a single feature. It sucks, but the harsh reality is that most startups today are just that—features. They aren't companies. They aren't businesses. They are a missing feature to another product. Even companies like Spotify become redundant once someone like Apple decides to get into the game. They can hang on for a while because of their service, loyal fanbase, or particular implementation–but they can no longer grow. All of the growth as a result of new users and population growth just ends up going to the Apple product. Companies are about growth, and if someone like Apple can throw their hat into the ring and completely freeze your growth then chances are you weren't really a company to begin with. Much of the startup world is based on selling before people figure this out.
  - msrpotus 11y ago
    Does Flux have a real business? Do they make any money? Just because they created something doesn't mean they have a company.
    - themagician 11y ago
      My point is that Apple doesn't need them. At all. Whether they are a company or a product or whatever they call themselves. They are now irrelevant.
    - nimish 11y ago
      It's a closed-source color temperature changer on a timer. I don't think it's gotten any new features in years, and they didn't patent this feature so sucks to be them.
      - espadrine 11y ago
StavrosK 11y ago
For context (and correct me if I have this wrong), f.lux was using a non-standard way to allow people to install the app on their phones (allowing them to install it using Xcode) and Apple banned that method. A few months later, Apple announced an iOS feature that does exactly what f.lux does.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  I think the issue was that that app was using private API's, users may not be fully aware of the implications of this, install via the Xcode method and then end up with issues when/if Apple messes with the API. So although it might look like Apple preventing holding down competition there are very valid reasons for the original response. (Not 100% sure that's what you were implying).
  - mrsteveman1 11y ago
    More than that, they were distributing an Xcode project that was little more than a binary, using the recent changes to developer code signing in Xcode to get that binary on to user devices. I can see how that alone would provoke a reaction from Apple, private APIs or not. After all, there are plenty of open source projects on Github that merely use private APIs, the browser for tvOS[0] for example. [0] https://github.com/steventroughtonsmith/tvOSBrowser https://github.com/steventroughtonsmith/tvOSBrowser
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  Yes. They had to, because it couldn't go through the App Store due to the use of Private APIs.
- jankins 11y ago
  > Apple banned that method I think it's more accurate to say that Apple asked them not to use that method, and they complied. Apple didn't employ any technical measures to prevent the method f.lux was using, you can still sideload apps. f.lux apparently decided it was more in their interest to comply than not to comply. edit: formating & clarity
- 11y ago
k-mcgrady 11y ago
Classy response. I was cringing before I even opened the link expecting whining but I am pleasantly surprised. I use f.lux on my Mac and find it has really improved my sleep. I hope Apple brings Night Shift to Mac as having the feature built-in will help more people. Personally I don't see them changing their policy towards f.lux on iOS until at least iOS 10 as the API's it requires to function are currently private. Maybe with the introduction of Night Shift they'll start to stabilise those and open it up.
- MBCook 11y ago
  I don't see it as classy, because they call to be allowed to do the thing they knew they weren't allowed to do. And now that it's integrated, what's the benefit of letting a 3rd party do it given how integral it is to the system? That's a lot of risk (wasted battery, making it hard to read, etc.) for little reward. I think if they had stopped at the "We call for Apple to..." it would have been a great statement. Use it to say "See this is important, so on Android go here and Windows go here and...".
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I don't see it as classy, because they call to be allowed to do the thing they knew they weren't allowed to do. What's non-classy about that?
    - MBCook 11y ago
      It's not terrible or rude, but it sounds like they haven't learned anything. They built an app they knew was against ToS, so they didn't even try to sell it. They then got mad they were told not to do that and called for Apple to let them do it anyway. Then a few months later they called for Apple to let them do it anyway. Once I read that it was more like hearing a kid say "but mom PLEASE".
  - Mandatum 11y ago
    I see it as an attempt to involve themselves with the platform implementors or become acquired by them. Apple, Google and Microsoft will all implement their own version of this in the next few months and f.lux will become irrelevant. Whether or not one of them partners with f.lux or not is what they hope for, I believe.
dreamling 11y ago
That an incredibly gracious post! wow.
markpapadakis 11y ago
I hope f.lux gets their chance with Apple. Their application is great and helps so many people. Btw, Michael Herf is the guy who built Picassa. He is a brilliant programmer and be sure knows a lot about graphics and colors.
markpapadakis 11y ago
I hope f.lux gets their chance with Apple. Their application is great and helps so many people. Btw, Michael Herf is the guy who built Picassa. He is a brilliant programmer and be sure knows a lot about graphics and colors.
2bitencryption 11y ago
Question about private api's: What makes a private api private? Is it merely undocumented, but still usable in the exact same way as a "public" api? I.e., in my code I invoke it like normal, but I just need to know the name? Or do I have to fiddle with the compiled code of my app to get it to call the instruction location of the otherwise invisible function? If they were meant to be private, why can't the app, which surely runs in some underpriviledged mode, be blocked from calling the function, which knows it itself is privileged?
- mitchty 11y ago
  For objective c on osx generally "private" means: we didn't put it in the header file, but you can obviously dump out that information and glean what functions do what. Then because objective c function calls are just message passing, you can send that off. It is no real different than C in this regard, private means just that it isn't publicly exported. It also generally means it could go away or change with an os update. So they tend to break often as they're generally ending up as public apis that apple doesn't yet want to commit to. To block things from using the api means you would be checking every call site invocation. Not really possible with the message passing style of objective c. Even if it is running as a user you would have to do something like: function () { if !allowed_uid() dunno segfault else ok cool do things } That whole process would use up needless energy or ram which on a mobile why bother, just tell people to stop using private apis and kick them out if they do.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  It's not documented or in the public headers. Meaning you do have to do a bit of fiddling in your app, but that just amounts to using reflection to use the API. Just because an API is private doesn't mean it's privileged. Indeed, many once private APIs have later become public. Apple does scan the binaries that are uploaded for private API use, effectively banning them from the store. One of the main reasons for banning use of private APIs is that those are usually in flux. They're not release worthy, and the last thing any platform maker, be they Apple, Google, or Microsoft, wants, is for a private change to break a bunch of 3rd party apps. These private APIs might also be doing things that they don't want just anyone to be able to do.
joblessjunkie 11y ago
Did the f.lux team just seriously imply that dimming your monitor at night can prevent cancer?
- deleted 11y ago
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- andrewmunsell 11y ago
  Maybe they were referring to something along the lines of this? (Note: I have not seen the study referenced in my linked article, and cannot vouch for the accuracy of Flux's statement) http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has... "But we do know that exposure to light suppresses the secretion of melatonin, a hormone that influences circadian rhythms, and there’s some experimental evidence (it’s very preliminary) that lower melatonin levels might explain the association with cancer."
- dogma1138 11y ago
  People that work night shifts are at higher risk of getting cancer. http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/20/1563.full http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/20/1563.full This has been known for quite some time, amongst the contributing factors considered there's also light exposure during "dark hours", especially when it comes to cold (blue) lighting.
- pizza 11y ago
  No mention of prevention
- Qantourisc 11y ago
  Well prevent might be a big word :) Reduces change because you should sleep more with f.lux. And that should reduce your chance for cancer.
AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
If memory serves, f.lux was banned for the "private" API's they used, which was necessary to control the the screen warmth. So now that Apple has released their own screen dimming app, is Apple's implementation any different than flux's? Or did Apple effectively just abuse their app policy so that they could proactively kill a competitor to their "new" feature?
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  It may not have been so malicious. "Huh, how is f.lux doing that? The API looks like it's private."
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  It doesn't matter if the implementation is the same. Apple has access to API's that the rest of us don't and it's not so they can have more power than us. They can't be expected to make public API's for everything and maintain them for every release. Not to mention I'm sure Apple has been working on this for a while. The whole f.lux thing didn't occur too long ago.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    Apple has access to API's that the rest of us don't and it's not so they can have more power than us. Sometimes I wonder. It sounds like if an API change breaks your app, then your app is broken and should simply get pulled for that. Furthermore, they tapped the flux guys on the shoulder and told them hosting their code with the instructions for people to sideload it themselves isn't allowed. https://justgetflux.com/sideload/ https://justgetflux.com/sideload/ Don't confused Apple's infamously controlling nature with some desire to adhere to good development practices. It's just Apple being Apple.
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      >> "It sounds like if an API change breaks your app, then your app is broken and should simply get pulled for that." A simple solution but a terrible one for users. Imagine apps on your device regularly breaking and having to wait several weeks for developers to update them. If they update them at all. Apple would also have to monitor user reports, test supposedly broken apps, then make a decision to pull them. And if they got the decision wrong they would be killed for it in the press.
sandbags 11y ago
Although Apple are perfectly within their rights to do what they've done I hope they'd reach out to the f.lux authors and do something for them. It's not like they're destroying a business - f.lux being free - but it would reward the authors for proving the value of the improvement to the platform. You want to encourage developers like that. And it's not like Apple are short of cash.
- feelix 11y ago
  The fact that f.lux is free does not mean it is not a business. Even though it is free they would be a multi million dollar business from my estimate. And Apple are indeed trampling on it by doing what they did. I'm not commenting on the morals of the whole situation, but it does seem necessary to clarify that it IS a business. Just because something is free doesn't mean you can't make money out of it in other ways.
- jws 11y ago
  …f.lux being free… Their web page still says "f.lux is patent pending." Apple's "Night Shift" is great news for f.lux. If f.lux can get their patent then the billion dollar target is square in their sights. I haven't seen anything on what exactly they are trying to patent to guess if Apple is infringing, but it does appear the f.lux business model is to get users hooked on white point shifting then profit from the patent.
s73v3r 11y ago
Except what would f.lux add on top of what Apple has released? It seems like Apple already did all the work.
beatpanda 11y ago
This, right here, is why I abandoned the Apple ecosystem. When a company has the kind of control that Apple has with the app store, they will inevitably abuse it.
- MBCook 11y ago
  This is no different from Microsoft saying "you can't release a program that calls internal NTFS methods in our app store". Seems fair. This isn't like Apple saying "No one can make lottery apps", they C&Ded someone to stop using private APIs and bypassing the app store.
  - sirkneeland 11y ago
    It's a bit different because (outside of irrelevant Windows Phone and dead Windows RT) the MS app store is optional, just one of many mainstream, widely accepted ways of installing software. Whereas with iOS, if Apple says no App Store for you it means no access to the iOS customer base.
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  - icebraining 11y ago
    You mean Microsoft, the company that was convicted for using private APIs all for themselves, and was forced to open them up? Good comparison.
binaryanomaly 11y ago
It's not the first time apple is acting in such an unfavorable way towards inventors/developers. It was exactly the same story regarding the use of the voluem button for taking pictures. 1st banned by apple and the later on integrated by apple. Not the best attitude imho.
- AugieDB 11y ago
  That was a shrewd marketing move by a developer to get his app blocked by Apple so he could make hay on it. Unfortunately, it paid off. The app shot up the charts after they manufactured that controversy for all the free publicity.
- MCRed 11y ago
  IT's not unfavorable to introduce a feature at the OS level and then release it to developers when its stable and ready for prime time. The brightness control that apps have now is a result of exactly this kind of process. Only thing "unfavorable" about the way Apple acts exists in the perception of people who already have an axe to grind.
  - binaryanomaly 11y ago
    Maybe more constructive than just banning would be to approach a solution together with the initial developer. Honoring his innovative approach and eventually granting him temporarily a slight advantage in exchange for bringing his innovative idea to the ecosystem instead of just playing copycat...
nchrys 11y ago
I use f.lux on my Mac and it has made a real difference in my sleep. On my iPad when I am reading late I use the inverted colors mode which can be triggered by pressing three times on the home button (if you activate the shortcut). I would say this is even more a relief for the eyes, as not only blue colors become warm but all the white that is the background color for most everything becomes just dark. Of course you can't watch movies in these conditions but I highly recommend this for readers.
- tacos 11y ago
  I see this exact statement repeatedly and it concerns me. F.lux isn't designed to make things "easy on the eyes." If you're having that reaction, and you feel it as strongly as your post implies, it may indicate a different health problem. You should consider getting glasses or altering your prescription. And if you're suffering eye fatigue it's probably not a great idea to be reading on a screen late at night regardless of the colors. Research "eye strain" for other suggestions that may help you.
- shostack 11y ago
  This. When I'm working at night on my desktop or laptop, I'm using f.lux. When I'm browsing the web late at night, I have my brightness set as low as it can go, and invert colors. Unfortunately the flickering of changing pages, images, etc. and going from a page that has a white background to one that is black (which shows up as white inverted) still wakes my wife up, so when I anticipate flickering, I have to hide under the sheets to read like a little kid reading past his bedtime. Further, the minimum brightness on iPads is still blinding. You have to download a specific "night browsing" browser just to get it to go lower, and if you are in an ebook reader, you are reliant on them having something to help. Ultimately, I found that for ebooks I'm just way better off with one of the new Kindle Paperwhites, which I'm absolutely in love with. However I still find myself wishing that they had a native way to invert the colors of text. This is trivial to do with common ebook/text doc formats, and I really wish they'd make it an easy "night reading" feature. Having the entire screen with a white background causes unnecessary eye strain and brightness when reading at night. Reading white text on a black background is SOOO much easier on the eyes in a low-light situation. Taking it a step further, while I hate backlit screens for night reading, one of my favorite reading setups is using a "terminal green" on black in Stanza on my iPad. Now if only the Kindle Paperwhite could do color...
skc 11y ago
So bizarre how app developers are always so polite and gracious when it comes to Apple. It's like even everyone is deathly afraid of saying anything that puts Apple in a negative light. I can only imagine what this post would have looked like had it been say, Google in question.
- MCRed 11y ago
  There is no negative light here... this is a capability/feature that makes sense at the OS level. On desktops you have access to the deepest parts of the system, but on mobile, things need to be more secure. Apple's done nothing wrong, and given Apple's history of implementing these kinds of features, then opening them up to developers in the next release, being polite when asking them to open them up is appropriate. For instance, it used to be that only Apple apps could control the brightness of the screen. Apple opened that up to all apps several years ago, and now many apps use it. Apple's just introduced new technology that would be useful for this app developer, and in a way, they are effectively enabling this kind of app-- and when they open it up in the next release (possibly iOS 10, since this is a feature introduced in the iOS 9.3 interim release) it will be stable and usable more broadly. The combative attitude many on HN have towards apple is more about being in the Google camp and seeing them as the enemy, than about Apple doing wrong by anyone (Yeas yeas, I know they take %30 of transactions, but that's an improvement over the %80 that previous generations of mobile software developers had to give up.. and other stores take a similar cut. etc.)
  - vvanders 11y ago
    Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about the company or its products. Nothing related to Google at all(which is probably why you're getting downvoted).
    - Anechoic 11y ago
      Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about the company or its products For example?
zippergz 11y ago
Maybe this is a sidetrack, but is there real peer-reviewed science behind the stuff f.lux claims? I tried it for a while and noticed no difference whatsoever (except that photos look like crap when the color balance is so skewed).
- huac 11y ago
  https://justgetflux.com/research.html https://justgetflux.com/research.html
tacos 11y ago
Part of me was hoping they'd let it go. While awareness of this issue is greater now than it was six years ago, I'm not sure if they've been pushing this wave closer to shore or merely surfing it. If this is truly the world health issue they think it is, now that iOS is taken care of seems like they should focus on Android, TVs and Kindles instead of begging Apple to let them compete with a built-in feature. After their last PR push and petition campaign (which landed them on various media outlets and the HN homepage twice in three days) it took them 7 weeks to land 5,000 signatures. I appreciate their passion but talking about cancer, weight gain and acne -- while providing affiliate links to salt lamps and Swarovski crystals -- just feels weird.
simple10 11y ago
Here's the related MacRumors article with more info on Apple's Night Shift app. It's currently available to developers but apparently only runs on iPhone 5s and iPad Air and later. http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-shift/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-shif...
- duskwuff 11y ago
  Minor quibble: Night Shift isn't an app. It's a new OS-level setting, similar to the Do Not Disturb mode that was introduced in iOS 6.
rm999 11y ago
A couple thoughts, as someone who has used f.lux for years and loves what it does: 1. It's a feature, not a product. And a simple one, conceptually. As much as I'd love to have competition in apps offering this functionality (like keyboards), "make my screen more red" isn't exactly rocket-science. 2. It's not well-designed. Their messaging mixes up two very different use-cases: matching the color of your room and aiding your sleep. That's ok - I use it for both - but there's no way to customize it. Even a super-simple option would let me communicate that I only want it on after 10:30 pm, a couple hours before I go to sleep, when I darken my room. Instead I need to deal with it automatically turning on every day at 4:30 pm, which makes something that should be simple very cumbersome (I have to manually turn it on and off every day in the winter).
- nathankunicki 11y ago
  Offering up a loaf of bread pre-sliced isn't rocket science either, but someone has to have the idea first, and executed it in a way that other people say "Wow why didn't I think of that before." or "Huh, I could really find this useful." At the very least Apple could offer acknowledgement.
  - tacos 11y ago
    Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood since... well, color. You won't see a window on a set that hasn't been treated to balance indoor and outdoor light. Tinting flashbulbs is common. Film editors select different bulbs and gels in tiny cubicles during late night razor-and-tape editing sessions. When video got popular in the 70s, they nudged the tint control. Mid-80s Amiga video games shifted from day to night -- shadows too! TVs ship with day/night/game modes. 10 year old car navigation systems automatically switch colors at night. There's literally nothing new under the sun. EDIT: yes, you can convert light to orange. http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Rosco-CTO-Gels_sm.jpg http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...
    - amlgsmsn 11y ago
      >Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood for nearly 100 years Then why was it impossible to do on iOS (iPhones and iPads) since 2007? I find it alarming that so many folks are supporting the actions of a company to control and inhibit innovation, literally hurting consumers' health in the process, in order to control and maintain their forced 30% cut of third party program revenues. They have literally implemented Palladium and Trusted Computing and it looks like people cannot get more of it.
eridius 11y ago
> Today we call on Apple to allow us to release f.lux on iOS, to open up access to the features announced this week, and to support our goal of furthering research in sleep and chronobiology. I'm confused, why do they want this? Night Shift does what f.lux does. Apple opening up the APIs to allow f.lux to run on iOS seems rather pointless, since the OS is already doing the same thing.
- eridius 11y ago
  Would anyone care to actually answer my question, instead of just downvoting? I didn't realize this was one of those "bury anyone who's not anti-Apple" threads.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  > I'm confused, why do they want this? You quoted it yourself: "to support our goal of furthering research in sleep and chronobiology." F.lux isn't just trying to sell an app. Also, Apple has a history of releasing user-friendly but very bare-bones, feature-light tools; f.lux presumably wants the option of releasing a richer app that does things Night Shift doesn't.
  - eridius 11y ago
    From what I understand, Night Shift does basically the same thing as f.lux. f.lux has been out for years, and I'm not aware of any particularly innovative changes done to it in that time.
yggydrasily 11y ago
Even though I really appreciate the idea behind it, I was never all that comfortable running f.lux on my Macbook. I never understood why it was free yet closed-source. It made me suspicious in a way, if that makes sense. After a while I just gave up and uninstalled f.lux. Instead, I created a 4500K white point copy of the default color profile and manually switched to it at night, which seemed to have the same effect. It also prevented those big flashes whenever switching to and from full-screen apps. I'm grateful that f.lux has pushed this issue to the point of getting traction as a built-in feature from Apple (and I do hope Apple brings it to OS X at some point), however unless f.lux becomes open-source, I don't plan to reinstall it.
- timonovici 11y ago
  Most of your OS is not open, so why bother? That's like spraying perfume in a room full of skunks ...
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    It's about expected levels of risk and the level of risk you're willing to accept. e.g. Risk of Apple deploying a malicious binary: low [0] Risk of J Random Dev deploying a malicious binary: higher, after they plug in a Thunderbolt adapter they found laying around at 32C3 [1]. So you might be willing to accept the risk of using a closed source OS, but an app doing interesting low level (?) things to the OS? Maybe not. [0]: Yeah yeah, the NSA is going to force them to deploy a bad copy of XCode, I know. [1]: https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike_2 https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike_2
- jshevek 11y ago
  You support (via hardware purchases) a powerful company that demonstrates overt hostility towards openness whenever it suits them, but won't use close source f.lux?
- DINKDINK 11y ago
  >I never understood why it was free yet closed-source. It made me suspicious in a way, if that makes sense. Unless binary builds are verified against the source code (or the code is reviewed and compiled locally), security is not a criteria that's benefited. The gitian process in bitcoin is an interesting solution on how to verify builds.
usermac 11y ago
For years I've used the accessibility feature to make the home screen invert the colors when I triple click it. Problem solved.
- usermac 11y ago
  Triple click the home button that is. ^_^
rocky1138 11y ago
"Please, sir, can I have some more?"
niels_olson 11y ago
Nocturne in red mode is far better for sleep conservation. I started using it over flux because many moons ago I developed an obsession for preserving night vision while standing watch on the bridges of ships, and can attest that you can pass out cold while editing a document with Nocturne in red mode.
qkhhly 11y ago
While they are spending time fighting on Apple's platform, I wish they'd spend a bit more time on Linux (Ubuntu) and android platforms. There are large number of users on those platforms. Their Ubuntu version works OK (not sure about other Linux variants), but there is no android version.
- rangibaby 11y ago
  Why not use Redshift? It's the same thing as f.lux.
lukeschlather 11y ago
Personally, I use Redshift which is an open-source f.lux clone. Ideally, I'd like to be able to watch TV/use a computer in a dark room and not have to worry about it being so bright it gives me a headache, but also have good color quality. Software color temperature apps handle the headaches pretty well, but they don't save power and they don't let me see true colors. It would be really nice to see some more hardware effort put into low-intensity backlights, especially color reproduction at lower brightness settings.
gcr 11y ago
This statement is a great example of professional writing in action. > Apple announced this week that they’ve joined our fight to use technology to improve sleep. Right from the opening sentence, this piece begins on a positive note. It isn't f.lux vs apple. It's flux and apple versus the overarching problem, and that's a much more effective statement than the bitter fight that all of us were probably expecting. I'm very impressed by the f.lux team's maturity. If I were to teach a professional writing course, I would show this piece to my students as an outstanding example of how spin can affect the reader's perception.
- nikolay 11y ago
  Oh, come on, they are just too small and afraid of gargantuan Apple! This is the sadness of today - we can't have Robin Hoods anymore!
  - gcr 11y ago
    Well, how could they have written their statement? Maybe this is a bit closer to what I was expecting: > We're appalled. Apple has stolen our > wonderful idea, just like they always do, > so we're calling on the f.lux community > to boycot apple products. We are also > in the process of finding a lawyer > to defend our patent, which Apple > has blatantly etc etc ... But what purpose would that serve? It would definitely make some enemies. If the project really is so small, a bitter statement like that probably isn't going to matter much. Maybe the f.lux folks are hurting inside. Even so, they've decided to put aside their disappointment for a moment. They're calling us not to fight, but to celebrate the fact that millions of people are going to get a good night's sleep, in part because of the research they pioneered, even though they might not reap the spoils of their work. I think it takes a big heart to write it that way.
    - nikolay 11y ago
      It's not the vendetta I expected, it's spreading the awareness that Apple is stealing ideas from small companies using its muscles and killing the desire to innovate! The public needs to know and tell Apple: "Don't do this anymore!" This is not stealing ideas, this is a daylight robbery! Blocking an app from App Store just to bake in its features shortly - this is immoral and possibly criminal!
hitlin37 11y ago
Redshift is pretty nice too, if you are on Linux. Unfortunately, f.lux experience isn't so great on Linux.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
Makes sense. So many people get up in arms when a competitor starts trying to do their job. That doesn't make sense to me... There is so much to do, so many challenges out there to address. If someone wants to do exactly what you're doing, why not let them? Most people struggle to find a worthy successor. It's a gift. Take the opportunity to move on to the next phase in your life, which has a good shot at being even better. You're smarter now, after all. I know some people feel they only have one good idea in them, but I think that results from either a) aiming too high on subsequent rounds, or b) phoning it in. But if you love to work, just start small and you'll avoid both of those things.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
Made a scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley jump into my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk "90 hours a week and loving it. Like the T-Shirt? I'm going to give it to my people. Some of them work even more than 90 hours a week." (Steve Jobs depiction) Woz says it's the only accurate one about Jobs and company. So, whether those words or not, I can only assume jobs worked his people to death to achieve Apple's success. Other things are consistent with that. Then, I hear they're "joining" f.lux to help their mission of improving sleep or whatever. Haha...
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Why is f.lux struggling so hard to get on iOS, a platform that clearly doesn't want them, when they still haven't released a version for Android, which is significantly more friendly and, IIRC, has a larger user base? My understanding is that an Android version would have to require a rooted phone to really do everything properly, which is a significant limitation, but rooting your phone is completely Google-approved and there are plenty of apps in the Android app store that openly require it. If (not unreasonably) f.lux is really concerned about reaching users who aren't savvy or interested enough to root their phones, then a root-only version would be an ideal test case to encourage Google to open up the API.
cha-cho 11y ago
What is the lesson here for the next flux type product creator?
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  What is a "flux type product" in this context?
  - cha-cho 11y ago
    Any idea or product that enhances an OS interaction and could be easily integrated into the OS if the vendor just decided they wanted to do so.
milkers 11y ago
This is just another way to say "Apple, please acquire us".
- Qantourisc 11y ago
  "Please acquire us" I coded an f.lux script that runs in background, and it's 213 lines long. It control the screen brightness and colour tone trough DDC by running dccontrol once in a while. Hiring him/them would cost more in overhead then it would cost to write the application.
willtim 11y ago
What I find strange is why they developed an iOS version at all, given the restrictions. They could have provided the top-selling Android version. I had to give my money to some other clone, I would have much rather given it to the innovators.
goldenkey 11y ago
F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out that produces a decent monitor with multiple backlight bulbs. I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb technologies: http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res... Tinting the color using F.lux is helpful but doesn't supplant the boon that a proper ergonomic monitor would for eye and circadian rhythm health.
cronjobber 11y ago
I recently had a need to stop and re-start f.lux (on Windows). I noticed that it was slow to start and suspected it was accessing the network. Since I had disabled automatic updates, that was strange. Switched to process explorer and found f.lux connected to three different addresses out there on the wild internet. Fishy, to say the least. You need permanent internet connections to do what you're ostensibly doing? Replaced it with open-source alternative "redshift".
goldenkey 11y ago
F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out with a monitor armed with multiple backlight bulbs. I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb technologies: http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res... F.lux is great and helps but what we really need is an ergonomic monitor. That will truly give us healthier eyes and improved circadian rhythm. Monitor tech is hard but this sounds like a great goal for a startup. :-)
coldtea 11y ago
Maybe they should try fixing the video glitches one frequently gets whenever f.lux is enabled on OS X first?

366 points by mrzool 11y ago

AdamGibbins 11y ago

What announcement? I missed it.

cryptoz 11y ago
iOS 9.3 includes a f.lux copy. http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/ http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/
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crb 11y ago
iOS 9.3 has a feature called "Night Shift": "Night Shift uses your iOS device’s clock and geolocation to determine when it’s sunset in your location. Then it automatically shifts the colors in your display to the warmer end of the spectrum, making it easier on your eyes. In the morning, it returns the display to its regular settings." http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/ http://www.apple.com/ios/preview/
- ProAm 11y ago
  So they copied what f.lux did and released it as a homegrown feature?
  - nemild 11y ago
    Very close to it, yes (but also, this is something platforms often do).
  - llamataboot 11y ago
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sherlocked
daxelrod 11y ago
http://www.apple.com/ios/preview http://www.apple.com/ios/preview , search the page for Night Shift. Discussed on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10882261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10882261
rconti 11y ago
Voted up because I had to get halfway through the comments (and even searched "apple f.lux" on Google but only turned up results from November) before finding the name "night shift" that I could then google and get the background. Is there a better way for submitters to include a second, explanatory link for context when the linked article does not provide any?

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kaiserama 11y ago

I would love to have f.lux on my un-jailbroken iPhone. Currently I use Twilight App on a Nexus by my nightstand during the night because of how harsh the iPhone screen is in the dark (even with brightness turned down all the way).

orik 11y ago
you can side load it if you still have the code/binary. that's what I've done. how it updates the screen with notifications is a little hacky though so I'm glad they are bringing a native implementation. hopefully this comes to OS X as well.
- notduncansmith 11y ago
  On OS X you can just use f.lux.
lukestevens 11y ago
There's a similar, more flexible, open source app you can sideload via Xcode here: https://github.com/anthonya1999/GoodNight https://github.com/anthonya1999/GoodNight . I use it on my non-jailbroken iPhone and iPad. Does the trick for me (all orange, all the time).

PostThisTooFast 11y ago

Failure. Doesn't say WTF f.lux is. Not even on their homepage.

tehwebguy 11y ago

I would be so much angrier than this post is. Dude thinks they might want to team up after Apple fucked them in 2x in a row.

themagician 11y ago
The reality is that Apple doesn't need them and their company was built on a single feature. It sucks, but the harsh reality is that most startups today are just that—features. They aren't companies. They aren't businesses. They are a missing feature to another product. Even companies like Spotify become redundant once someone like Apple decides to get into the game. They can hang on for a while because of their service, loyal fanbase, or particular implementation–but they can no longer grow. All of the growth as a result of new users and population growth just ends up going to the Apple product. Companies are about growth, and if someone like Apple can throw their hat into the ring and completely freeze your growth then chances are you weren't really a company to begin with. Much of the startup world is based on selling before people figure this out.
- msrpotus 11y ago
  Does Flux have a real business? Do they make any money? Just because they created something doesn't mean they have a company.
  - themagician 11y ago
    My point is that Apple doesn't need them. At all. Whether they are a company or a product or whatever they call themselves. They are now irrelevant.
  - nimish 11y ago
    It's a closed-source color temperature changer on a timer. I don't think it's gotten any new features in years, and they didn't patent this feature so sucks to be them.
    - espadrine 11y ago

StavrosK 11y ago

For context (and correct me if I have this wrong), f.lux was using a non-standard way to allow people to install the app on their phones (allowing them to install it using Xcode) and Apple banned that method. A few months later, Apple announced an iOS feature that does exactly what f.lux does.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
I think the issue was that that app was using private API's, users may not be fully aware of the implications of this, install via the Xcode method and then end up with issues when/if Apple messes with the API. So although it might look like Apple preventing holding down competition there are very valid reasons for the original response. (Not 100% sure that's what you were implying).
- mrsteveman1 11y ago
  More than that, they were distributing an Xcode project that was little more than a binary, using the recent changes to developer code signing in Xcode to get that binary on to user devices. I can see how that alone would provoke a reaction from Apple, private APIs or not. After all, there are plenty of open source projects on Github that merely use private APIs, the browser for tvOS[0] for example. [0] https://github.com/steventroughtonsmith/tvOSBrowser https://github.com/steventroughtonsmith/tvOSBrowser
FireBeyond 11y ago
Yes. They had to, because it couldn't go through the App Store due to the use of Private APIs.
jankins 11y ago
> Apple banned that method I think it's more accurate to say that Apple asked them not to use that method, and they complied. Apple didn't employ any technical measures to prevent the method f.lux was using, you can still sideload apps. f.lux apparently decided it was more in their interest to comply than not to comply. edit: formating & clarity
11y ago

k-mcgrady 11y ago

Classy response. I was cringing before I even opened the link expecting whining but I am pleasantly surprised. I use f.lux on my Mac and find it has really improved my sleep. I hope Apple brings Night Shift to Mac as having the feature built-in will help more people. Personally I don't see them changing their policy towards f.lux on iOS until at least iOS 10 as the API's it requires to function are currently private. Maybe with the introduction of Night Shift they'll start to stabilise those and open it up.

MBCook 11y ago
I don't see it as classy, because they call to be allowed to do the thing they knew they weren't allowed to do. And now that it's integrated, what's the benefit of letting a 3rd party do it given how integral it is to the system? That's a lot of risk (wasted battery, making it hard to read, etc.) for little reward. I think if they had stopped at the "We call for Apple to..." it would have been a great statement. Use it to say "See this is important, so on Android go here and Windows go here and...".
- icebraining 11y ago
  I don't see it as classy, because they call to be allowed to do the thing they knew they weren't allowed to do. What's non-classy about that?
  - MBCook 11y ago
    It's not terrible or rude, but it sounds like they haven't learned anything. They built an app they knew was against ToS, so they didn't even try to sell it. They then got mad they were told not to do that and called for Apple to let them do it anyway. Then a few months later they called for Apple to let them do it anyway. Once I read that it was more like hearing a kid say "but mom PLEASE".
- Mandatum 11y ago
  I see it as an attempt to involve themselves with the platform implementors or become acquired by them. Apple, Google and Microsoft will all implement their own version of this in the next few months and f.lux will become irrelevant. Whether or not one of them partners with f.lux or not is what they hope for, I believe.

dreamling 11y ago

That an incredibly gracious post! wow.

markpapadakis 11y ago

I hope f.lux gets their chance with Apple. Their application is great and helps so many people. Btw, Michael Herf is the guy who built Picassa. He is a brilliant programmer and be sure knows a lot about graphics and colors.

markpapadakis 11y ago

2bitencryption 11y ago

Question about private api's: What makes a private api private? Is it merely undocumented, but still usable in the exact same way as a "public" api? I.e., in my code I invoke it like normal, but I just need to know the name? Or do I have to fiddle with the compiled code of my app to get it to call the instruction location of the otherwise invisible function? If they were meant to be private, why can't the app, which surely runs in some underpriviledged mode, be blocked from calling the function, which knows it itself is privileged?

mitchty 11y ago
For objective c on osx generally "private" means: we didn't put it in the header file, but you can obviously dump out that information and glean what functions do what. Then because objective c function calls are just message passing, you can send that off. It is no real different than C in this regard, private means just that it isn't publicly exported. It also generally means it could go away or change with an os update. So they tend to break often as they're generally ending up as public apis that apple doesn't yet want to commit to. To block things from using the api means you would be checking every call site invocation. Not really possible with the message passing style of objective c. Even if it is running as a user you would have to do something like: function () { if !allowed_uid() dunno segfault else ok cool do things } That whole process would use up needless energy or ram which on a mobile why bother, just tell people to stop using private apis and kick them out if they do.
s73v3r 11y ago
It's not documented or in the public headers. Meaning you do have to do a bit of fiddling in your app, but that just amounts to using reflection to use the API. Just because an API is private doesn't mean it's privileged. Indeed, many once private APIs have later become public. Apple does scan the binaries that are uploaded for private API use, effectively banning them from the store. One of the main reasons for banning use of private APIs is that those are usually in flux. They're not release worthy, and the last thing any platform maker, be they Apple, Google, or Microsoft, wants, is for a private change to break a bunch of 3rd party apps. These private APIs might also be doing things that they don't want just anyone to be able to do.

joblessjunkie 11y ago

Did the f.lux team just seriously imply that dimming your monitor at night can prevent cancer?

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andrewmunsell 11y ago
Maybe they were referring to something along the lines of this? (Note: I have not seen the study referenced in my linked article, and cannot vouch for the accuracy of Flux's statement) http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has... "But we do know that exposure to light suppresses the secretion of melatonin, a hormone that influences circadian rhythms, and there’s some experimental evidence (it’s very preliminary) that lower melatonin levels might explain the association with cancer."
dogma1138 11y ago
People that work night shifts are at higher risk of getting cancer. http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/20/1563.full http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/20/1563.full This has been known for quite some time, amongst the contributing factors considered there's also light exposure during "dark hours", especially when it comes to cold (blue) lighting.
pizza 11y ago
No mention of prevention
Qantourisc 11y ago
Well prevent might be a big word :) Reduces change because you should sleep more with f.lux. And that should reduce your chance for cancer.

AdmiralAsshat 11y ago

If memory serves, f.lux was banned for the "private" API's they used, which was necessary to control the the screen warmth. So now that Apple has released their own screen dimming app, is Apple's implementation any different than flux's? Or did Apple effectively just abuse their app policy so that they could proactively kill a competitor to their "new" feature?

ceejayoz 11y ago
It may not have been so malicious. "Huh, how is f.lux doing that? The API looks like it's private."
k-mcgrady 11y ago
It doesn't matter if the implementation is the same. Apple has access to API's that the rest of us don't and it's not so they can have more power than us. They can't be expected to make public API's for everything and maintain them for every release. Not to mention I'm sure Apple has been working on this for a while. The whole f.lux thing didn't occur too long ago.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  Apple has access to API's that the rest of us don't and it's not so they can have more power than us. Sometimes I wonder. It sounds like if an API change breaks your app, then your app is broken and should simply get pulled for that. Furthermore, they tapped the flux guys on the shoulder and told them hosting their code with the instructions for people to sideload it themselves isn't allowed. https://justgetflux.com/sideload/ https://justgetflux.com/sideload/ Don't confused Apple's infamously controlling nature with some desire to adhere to good development practices. It's just Apple being Apple.
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    >> "It sounds like if an API change breaks your app, then your app is broken and should simply get pulled for that." A simple solution but a terrible one for users. Imagine apps on your device regularly breaking and having to wait several weeks for developers to update them. If they update them at all. Apple would also have to monitor user reports, test supposedly broken apps, then make a decision to pull them. And if they got the decision wrong they would be killed for it in the press.

sandbags 11y ago

Although Apple are perfectly within their rights to do what they've done I hope they'd reach out to the f.lux authors and do something for them. It's not like they're destroying a business - f.lux being free - but it would reward the authors for proving the value of the improvement to the platform. You want to encourage developers like that. And it's not like Apple are short of cash.

feelix 11y ago
The fact that f.lux is free does not mean it is not a business. Even though it is free they would be a multi million dollar business from my estimate. And Apple are indeed trampling on it by doing what they did. I'm not commenting on the morals of the whole situation, but it does seem necessary to clarify that it IS a business. Just because something is free doesn't mean you can't make money out of it in other ways.
jws 11y ago
…f.lux being free… Their web page still says "f.lux is patent pending." Apple's "Night Shift" is great news for f.lux. If f.lux can get their patent then the billion dollar target is square in their sights. I haven't seen anything on what exactly they are trying to patent to guess if Apple is infringing, but it does appear the f.lux business model is to get users hooked on white point shifting then profit from the patent.

s73v3r 11y ago

Except what would f.lux add on top of what Apple has released? It seems like Apple already did all the work.

beatpanda 11y ago

This, right here, is why I abandoned the Apple ecosystem. When a company has the kind of control that Apple has with the app store, they will inevitably abuse it.

MBCook 11y ago
This is no different from Microsoft saying "you can't release a program that calls internal NTFS methods in our app store". Seems fair. This isn't like Apple saying "No one can make lottery apps", they C&Ded someone to stop using private APIs and bypassing the app store.
- sirkneeland 11y ago
  It's a bit different because (outside of irrelevant Windows Phone and dead Windows RT) the MS app store is optional, just one of many mainstream, widely accepted ways of installing software. Whereas with iOS, if Apple says no App Store for you it means no access to the iOS customer base.
  - deleted 11y ago
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- icebraining 11y ago
  You mean Microsoft, the company that was convicted for using private APIs all for themselves, and was forced to open them up? Good comparison.

binaryanomaly 11y ago

It's not the first time apple is acting in such an unfavorable way towards inventors/developers. It was exactly the same story regarding the use of the voluem button for taking pictures. 1st banned by apple and the later on integrated by apple. Not the best attitude imho.

AugieDB 11y ago
That was a shrewd marketing move by a developer to get his app blocked by Apple so he could make hay on it. Unfortunately, it paid off. The app shot up the charts after they manufactured that controversy for all the free publicity.
MCRed 11y ago
IT's not unfavorable to introduce a feature at the OS level and then release it to developers when its stable and ready for prime time. The brightness control that apps have now is a result of exactly this kind of process. Only thing "unfavorable" about the way Apple acts exists in the perception of people who already have an axe to grind.
- binaryanomaly 11y ago
  Maybe more constructive than just banning would be to approach a solution together with the initial developer. Honoring his innovative approach and eventually granting him temporarily a slight advantage in exchange for bringing his innovative idea to the ecosystem instead of just playing copycat...

nchrys 11y ago

I use f.lux on my Mac and it has made a real difference in my sleep. On my iPad when I am reading late I use the inverted colors mode which can be triggered by pressing three times on the home button (if you activate the shortcut). I would say this is even more a relief for the eyes, as not only blue colors become warm but all the white that is the background color for most everything becomes just dark. Of course you can't watch movies in these conditions but I highly recommend this for readers.

tacos 11y ago
I see this exact statement repeatedly and it concerns me. F.lux isn't designed to make things "easy on the eyes." If you're having that reaction, and you feel it as strongly as your post implies, it may indicate a different health problem. You should consider getting glasses or altering your prescription. And if you're suffering eye fatigue it's probably not a great idea to be reading on a screen late at night regardless of the colors. Research "eye strain" for other suggestions that may help you.
shostack 11y ago
This. When I'm working at night on my desktop or laptop, I'm using f.lux. When I'm browsing the web late at night, I have my brightness set as low as it can go, and invert colors. Unfortunately the flickering of changing pages, images, etc. and going from a page that has a white background to one that is black (which shows up as white inverted) still wakes my wife up, so when I anticipate flickering, I have to hide under the sheets to read like a little kid reading past his bedtime. Further, the minimum brightness on iPads is still blinding. You have to download a specific "night browsing" browser just to get it to go lower, and if you are in an ebook reader, you are reliant on them having something to help. Ultimately, I found that for ebooks I'm just way better off with one of the new Kindle Paperwhites, which I'm absolutely in love with. However I still find myself wishing that they had a native way to invert the colors of text. This is trivial to do with common ebook/text doc formats, and I really wish they'd make it an easy "night reading" feature. Having the entire screen with a white background causes unnecessary eye strain and brightness when reading at night. Reading white text on a black background is SOOO much easier on the eyes in a low-light situation. Taking it a step further, while I hate backlit screens for night reading, one of my favorite reading setups is using a "terminal green" on black in Stanza on my iPad. Now if only the Kindle Paperwhite could do color...

skc 11y ago

So bizarre how app developers are always so polite and gracious when it comes to Apple. It's like even everyone is deathly afraid of saying anything that puts Apple in a negative light. I can only imagine what this post would have looked like had it been say, Google in question.

MCRed 11y ago
There is no negative light here... this is a capability/feature that makes sense at the OS level. On desktops you have access to the deepest parts of the system, but on mobile, things need to be more secure. Apple's done nothing wrong, and given Apple's history of implementing these kinds of features, then opening them up to developers in the next release, being polite when asking them to open them up is appropriate. For instance, it used to be that only Apple apps could control the brightness of the screen. Apple opened that up to all apps several years ago, and now many apps use it. Apple's just introduced new technology that would be useful for this app developer, and in a way, they are effectively enabling this kind of app-- and when they open it up in the next release (possibly iOS 10, since this is a feature introduced in the iOS 9.3 interim release) it will be stable and usable more broadly. The combative attitude many on HN have towards apple is more about being in the Google camp and seeing them as the enemy, than about Apple doing wrong by anyone (Yeas yeas, I know they take %30 of transactions, but that's an improvement over the %80 that previous generations of mobile software developers had to give up.. and other stores take a similar cut. etc.)
- vvanders 11y ago
  Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about the company or its products. Nothing related to Google at all(which is probably why you're getting downvoted).
  - Anechoic 11y ago
    Apple has quite a history of prosecuting devs who say anything critical about the company or its products For example?

zippergz 11y ago

Maybe this is a sidetrack, but is there real peer-reviewed science behind the stuff f.lux claims? I tried it for a while and noticed no difference whatsoever (except that photos look like crap when the color balance is so skewed).

huac 11y ago
https://justgetflux.com/research.html https://justgetflux.com/research.html

tacos 11y ago

Part of me was hoping they'd let it go. While awareness of this issue is greater now than it was six years ago, I'm not sure if they've been pushing this wave closer to shore or merely surfing it. If this is truly the world health issue they think it is, now that iOS is taken care of seems like they should focus on Android, TVs and Kindles instead of begging Apple to let them compete with a built-in feature. After their last PR push and petition campaign (which landed them on various media outlets and the HN homepage twice in three days) it took them 7 weeks to land 5,000 signatures. I appreciate their passion but talking about cancer, weight gain and acne -- while providing affiliate links to salt lamps and Swarovski crystals -- just feels weird.

simple10 11y ago

Here's the related MacRumors article with more info on Apple's Night Shift app. It's currently available to developers but apparently only runs on iPhone 5s and iPad Air and later. http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-shift/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/11/apple-ios-9-3-night-shif...

duskwuff 11y ago
Minor quibble: Night Shift isn't an app. It's a new OS-level setting, similar to the Do Not Disturb mode that was introduced in iOS 6.

rm999 11y ago

A couple thoughts, as someone who has used f.lux for years and loves what it does: 1. It's a feature, not a product. And a simple one, conceptually. As much as I'd love to have competition in apps offering this functionality (like keyboards), "make my screen more red" isn't exactly rocket-science. 2. It's not well-designed. Their messaging mixes up two very different use-cases: matching the color of your room and aiding your sleep. That's ok - I use it for both - but there's no way to customize it. Even a super-simple option would let me communicate that I only want it on after 10:30 pm, a couple hours before I go to sleep, when I darken my room. Instead I need to deal with it automatically turning on every day at 4:30 pm, which makes something that should be simple very cumbersome (I have to manually turn it on and off every day in the winter).

nathankunicki 11y ago
Offering up a loaf of bread pre-sliced isn't rocket science either, but someone has to have the idea first, and executed it in a way that other people say "Wow why didn't I think of that before." or "Huh, I could really find this useful." At the very least Apple could offer acknowledgement.
- tacos 11y ago
  Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood since... well, color. You won't see a window on a set that hasn't been treated to balance indoor and outdoor light. Tinting flashbulbs is common. Film editors select different bulbs and gels in tiny cubicles during late night razor-and-tape editing sessions. When video got popular in the 70s, they nudged the tint control. Mid-80s Amiga video games shifted from day to night -- shadows too! TVs ship with day/night/game modes. 10 year old car navigation systems automatically switch colors at night. There's literally nothing new under the sun. EDIT: yes, you can convert light to orange. http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Rosco-CTO-Gels_sm.jpg http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...
  - amlgsmsn 11y ago
    >Tweaking color temperature has been done in Hollywood for nearly 100 years Then why was it impossible to do on iOS (iPhones and iPads) since 2007? I find it alarming that so many folks are supporting the actions of a company to control and inhibit innovation, literally hurting consumers' health in the process, in order to control and maintain their forced 30% cut of third party program revenues. They have literally implemented Palladium and Trusted Computing and it looks like people cannot get more of it.

eridius 11y ago

> Today we call on Apple to allow us to release f.lux on iOS, to open up access to the features announced this week, and to support our goal of furthering research in sleep and chronobiology. I'm confused, why do they want this? Night Shift does what f.lux does. Apple opening up the APIs to allow f.lux to run on iOS seems rather pointless, since the OS is already doing the same thing.

eridius 11y ago
Would anyone care to actually answer my question, instead of just downvoting? I didn't realize this was one of those "bury anyone who's not anti-Apple" threads.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
> I'm confused, why do they want this? You quoted it yourself: "to support our goal of furthering research in sleep and chronobiology." F.lux isn't just trying to sell an app. Also, Apple has a history of releasing user-friendly but very bare-bones, feature-light tools; f.lux presumably wants the option of releasing a richer app that does things Night Shift doesn't.
- eridius 11y ago
  From what I understand, Night Shift does basically the same thing as f.lux. f.lux has been out for years, and I'm not aware of any particularly innovative changes done to it in that time.

yggydrasily 11y ago

Even though I really appreciate the idea behind it, I was never all that comfortable running f.lux on my Macbook. I never understood why it was free yet closed-source. It made me suspicious in a way, if that makes sense. After a while I just gave up and uninstalled f.lux. Instead, I created a 4500K white point copy of the default color profile and manually switched to it at night, which seemed to have the same effect. It also prevented those big flashes whenever switching to and from full-screen apps. I'm grateful that f.lux has pushed this issue to the point of getting traction as a built-in feature from Apple (and I do hope Apple brings it to OS X at some point), however unless f.lux becomes open-source, I don't plan to reinstall it.

timonovici 11y ago
Most of your OS is not open, so why bother? That's like spraying perfume in a room full of skunks ...
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  It's about expected levels of risk and the level of risk you're willing to accept. e.g. Risk of Apple deploying a malicious binary: low [0] Risk of J Random Dev deploying a malicious binary: higher, after they plug in a Thunderbolt adapter they found laying around at 32C3 [1]. So you might be willing to accept the risk of using a closed source OS, but an app doing interesting low level (?) things to the OS? Maybe not. [0]: Yeah yeah, the NSA is going to force them to deploy a bad copy of XCode, I know. [1]: https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike_2 https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike_2
jshevek 11y ago
You support (via hardware purchases) a powerful company that demonstrates overt hostility towards openness whenever it suits them, but won't use close source f.lux?
DINKDINK 11y ago
>I never understood why it was free yet closed-source. It made me suspicious in a way, if that makes sense. Unless binary builds are verified against the source code (or the code is reviewed and compiled locally), security is not a criteria that's benefited. The gitian process in bitcoin is an interesting solution on how to verify builds.

usermac 11y ago

For years I've used the accessibility feature to make the home screen invert the colors when I triple click it. Problem solved.

usermac 11y ago
Triple click the home button that is. ^_^

rocky1138 11y ago

"Please, sir, can I have some more?"

niels_olson 11y ago

Nocturne in red mode is far better for sleep conservation. I started using it over flux because many moons ago I developed an obsession for preserving night vision while standing watch on the bridges of ships, and can attest that you can pass out cold while editing a document with Nocturne in red mode.

qkhhly 11y ago

While they are spending time fighting on Apple's platform, I wish they'd spend a bit more time on Linux (Ubuntu) and android platforms. There are large number of users on those platforms. Their Ubuntu version works OK (not sure about other Linux variants), but there is no android version.

rangibaby 11y ago
Why not use Redshift? It's the same thing as f.lux.

lukeschlather 11y ago

Personally, I use Redshift which is an open-source f.lux clone. Ideally, I'd like to be able to watch TV/use a computer in a dark room and not have to worry about it being so bright it gives me a headache, but also have good color quality. Software color temperature apps handle the headaches pretty well, but they don't save power and they don't let me see true colors. It would be really nice to see some more hardware effort put into low-intensity backlights, especially color reproduction at lower brightness settings.

gcr 11y ago

This statement is a great example of professional writing in action. > Apple announced this week that they’ve joined our fight to use technology to improve sleep. Right from the opening sentence, this piece begins on a positive note. It isn't f.lux vs apple. It's flux and apple versus the overarching problem, and that's a much more effective statement than the bitter fight that all of us were probably expecting. I'm very impressed by the f.lux team's maturity. If I were to teach a professional writing course, I would show this piece to my students as an outstanding example of how spin can affect the reader's perception.

nikolay 11y ago
Oh, come on, they are just too small and afraid of gargantuan Apple! This is the sadness of today - we can't have Robin Hoods anymore!
- gcr 11y ago
  Well, how could they have written their statement? Maybe this is a bit closer to what I was expecting: > We're appalled. Apple has stolen our > wonderful idea, just like they always do, > so we're calling on the f.lux community > to boycot apple products. We are also > in the process of finding a lawyer > to defend our patent, which Apple > has blatantly etc etc ... But what purpose would that serve? It would definitely make some enemies. If the project really is so small, a bitter statement like that probably isn't going to matter much. Maybe the f.lux folks are hurting inside. Even so, they've decided to put aside their disappointment for a moment. They're calling us not to fight, but to celebrate the fact that millions of people are going to get a good night's sleep, in part because of the research they pioneered, even though they might not reap the spoils of their work. I think it takes a big heart to write it that way.
  - nikolay 11y ago
    It's not the vendetta I expected, it's spreading the awareness that Apple is stealing ideas from small companies using its muscles and killing the desire to innovate! The public needs to know and tell Apple: "Don't do this anymore!" This is not stealing ideas, this is a daylight robbery! Blocking an app from App Store just to bake in its features shortly - this is immoral and possibly criminal!

hitlin37 11y ago

Redshift is pretty nice too, if you are on Linux. Unfortunately, f.lux experience isn't so great on Linux.

erikpukinskis 11y ago

Makes sense. So many people get up in arms when a competitor starts trying to do their job. That doesn't make sense to me... There is so much to do, so many challenges out there to address. If someone wants to do exactly what you're doing, why not let them? Most people struggle to find a worthy successor. It's a gift. Take the opportunity to move on to the next phase in your life, which has a good shot at being even better. You're smarter now, after all. I know some people feel they only have one good idea in them, but I think that results from either a) aiming too high on subsequent rounds, or b) phoning it in. But if you love to work, just start small and you'll avoid both of those things.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

Made a scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley jump into my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4DvM0wxdk "90 hours a week and loving it. Like the T-Shirt? I'm going to give it to my people. Some of them work even more than 90 hours a week." (Steve Jobs depiction) Woz says it's the only accurate one about Jobs and company. So, whether those words or not, I can only assume jobs worked his people to death to achieve Apple's success. Other things are consistent with that. Then, I hear they're "joining" f.lux to help their mission of improving sleep or whatever. Haha...

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

Why is f.lux struggling so hard to get on iOS, a platform that clearly doesn't want them, when they still haven't released a version for Android, which is significantly more friendly and, IIRC, has a larger user base? My understanding is that an Android version would have to require a rooted phone to really do everything properly, which is a significant limitation, but rooting your phone is completely Google-approved and there are plenty of apps in the Android app store that openly require it. If (not unreasonably) f.lux is really concerned about reaching users who aren't savvy or interested enough to root their phones, then a root-only version would be an ideal test case to encourage Google to open up the API.

cha-cho 11y ago

What is the lesson here for the next flux type product creator?

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
What is a "flux type product" in this context?
- cha-cho 11y ago
  Any idea or product that enhances an OS interaction and could be easily integrated into the OS if the vendor just decided they wanted to do so.

milkers 11y ago

This is just another way to say "Apple, please acquire us".

Qantourisc 11y ago
"Please acquire us" I coded an f.lux script that runs in background, and it's 213 lines long. It control the screen brightness and colour tone trough DDC by running dccontrol once in a while. Hiring him/them would cost more in overhead then it would cost to write the application.

willtim 11y ago

What I find strange is why they developed an iOS version at all, given the restrictions. They could have provided the top-selling Android version. I had to give my money to some other clone, I would have much rather given it to the innovators.

goldenkey 11y ago

F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out that produces a decent monitor with multiple backlight bulbs. I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb technologies: http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res... Tinting the color using F.lux is helpful but doesn't supplant the boon that a proper ergonomic monitor would for eye and circadian rhythm health.

cronjobber 11y ago

I recently had a need to stop and re-start f.lux (on Windows). I noticed that it was slow to start and suspected it was accessing the network. Since I had disabled automatic updates, that was strange. Switched to process explorer and found f.lux connected to three different addresses out there on the wild internet. Fishy, to say the least. You need permanent internet connections to do what you're ostensibly doing? Replaced it with open-source alternative "redshift".

goldenkey 11y ago

F.lux is great but the root of the problem is the type of backlight that monitors use. A hardware company ought to come out with a monitor armed with multiple backlight bulbs. I mean, look at the difference in abrasiveness of spectrum between these bulb technologies: http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_responses2.png http://housecraft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spectral_res... F.lux is great and helps but what we really need is an ergonomic monitor. That will truly give us healthier eyes and improved circadian rhythm. Monitor tech is hard but this sounds like a great goal for a startup. :-)

coldtea 11y ago

Maybe they should try fixing the video glitches one frequently gets whenever f.lux is enabled on OS X first?